Where would 1998 Jordan rank today?

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:50 pm

Where would 1998 Jordan rank in today’s league?

Some smartguy · Post #2 » by **Some smartguy** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:35 pm

Top 1-3 player in the league I would guess. He could be anywhere from first to third IMO, can't see him any lower than that.

Djoker · Post #3 » by **Djoker** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:36 pm

Best player in the league.

The 1998 NBA had a league average TS% pf 52.4 and a pace of 90.3.
The 2020 NBA had a league average TS% of 56.5 and a pace of 100.3.

1998 Jordan was the scoring champ, MVP, FMVP, All-Defensive 1st Team and averaged 32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5 %TS (+2.1 rTS) with 2.1 turnovers per game in the playoffs. Today with the same rTS those numbers jump up to 35.1 ppg on 59.0 %TS (+2.1 rTS). With the higher pace the other stats including FGA would probably go up so overall a 36/6/4 average is probable.

That era was much much harder to score the ball in.

magicman1978 · Post #4 » by **magicman1978** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:10 pm

Top 5 - he wouldn't be the best. He had an injury to his shooting had that had a significant impact that year on his efficiency (and his hand was never the same, he had to adjust his shot). If we focus on the post-season, he may move into top 2 with LeBron.

feyki · Post #5 » by **feyki** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:16 pm

Worst all-around year of his career,besides his WAS years. I would say top 5, based on adjusted impact his statline about to like 35-5-5 with %61 TS and also with an all defensive first team selection. Giannis,Harden,Lebron,Davis,Kawhi all's last year were better than 98 Jordan. Lebron couldn't stay at his last year level and Harden also seems not much good compared to his recent years, 98 Jordan could be top 5.

picko · Post #6 » by **picko** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:50 pm

Djoker wrote:Best player in the league.

The 1998 NBA had a league average TS% pf 52.4 and a pace of 90.3.
The 2020 NBA had a league average TS% of 56.5 and a pace of 110.6.

1998 Jordan was the scoring champ, MVP, FMVP, All-Defensive 1st Team and averaged 32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5 %TS (+2.1 rTS) with 2.1 turnovers per game in the playoffs. Today with the same rTS those numbers jump up to 35.1 ppg on 59.0 %TS (+2.1 rTS). With the higher pace the other stats including FGA would probably go up so overall a 36/6/4 average is probable.

That era was much much harder to score the ball in.

While his efficiency would likely increase - more points in transition and more threes - there are limitations purely because he relied so extensively on his turnaround jumper. That's just not going to be a above average efficiency shot in today's game.

Furthermore, a 35-year old Jordan isn't playing the same number of minutes in the modern game. And that would largely offset any impact of pace.

Also pace isn't 110.6. It's was 100.3 according to Basketball Reference. I think you accidentally wrote down offensive rating :-)

DQuinn1575 · Post #7 » by **DQuinn1575** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:40 am

feyki wrote:Worst all-around year of his career,besides his WAS years. I would say top 5, based on adjusted impact his statline about to like 35-5-5 with %61 TS and also with an all defensive first team selection. Giannis,Harden,Lebron,Davis,Kawhi all's last year were better than 98 Jordan. Lebron couldn't stay at his last year level and Harden also seems not much good compared to his recent years, 98 Jordan could be top 5.

These is no such year where someone goes 35/5/5 with above average ts% and first team all-defense where there are 5 players better than that. The profile you gave for him is much better than 6th on that list.

HeartBreakKid · Post #8 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:41 am

Was Michael Jordan really a top 2 defensive guard in 1998?

No-more-rings · Post #9 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:42 am

We do this every year. Top 10 at best, calling 34/35 year old Jordan the best in the game today is a clever joke.

colts18 · Post #10 » by **colts18** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:52 am

DQuinn1575 wrote:
feyki wrote:Worst all-around year of his career,besides his WAS years. I would say top 5, based on adjusted impact his statline about to like 35-5-5 with %61 TS and also with an all defensive first team selection. Giannis,Harden,Lebron,Davis,Kawhi all's last year were better than 98 Jordan. Lebron couldn't stay at his last year level and Harden also seems not much good compared to his recent years, 98 Jordan could be top 5.

These is no such year where someone goes 35/5/5 with above average ts% and first team all-defense where there are 5 players better than that. The profile you gave for him is much better than 6th on that list.

Bradley Beal is averaging those stats and he won't make the All-NBA team.

JN61 · Post #11 » by **JN61** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:58 am

If some people think LeBron is the best player in the NBA. I take Jordan over him every day of the week.

GYK · Post #12 » by **GYK** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:09 am

I don’t like how pace is used. I don’t think it should determine is a high usage player is going to get more shots. Considering FGA have stay consistent for stars I just think increased pace effects end of rotation players more(especially since minutes are down despite attempts remaining the same. In 30 minutes 36 minutes of possessions can be had).
Efficiency is tricker. I want it acknowledged how better/worse than the league you played in. The problem is the change of style. Does this player take more threes or not? +/- over league average but I think that number has to also incorporate the threes you think that player will take.

Nevertheless MJ would be a certain top ten player. Wasn’t one of the many seasons he was an unquestionable best player in the league IMO. He would be now either. His biggest flaw is his role as a playmaker. That drop from his normal 25% assist percentage to 18% is pretty massive.
He’s certainly a MVP candidate but like most seasons without a unquestioned best there are others who could challenge him(as they did).

rand · Post #13 » by **rand** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:13 am

In the playoffs, top-2

DQuinn1575 · Post #14 » by **DQuinn1575** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:44 am

colts18 wrote:
DQuinn1575 wrote:
feyki wrote:Worst all-around year of his career,besides his WAS years. I would say top 5, based on adjusted impact his statline about to like 35-5-5 with %61 TS and also with an all defensive first team selection. Giannis,Harden,Lebron,Davis,Kawhi all's last year were better than 98 Jordan. Lebron couldn't stay at his last year level and Harden also seems not much good compared to his recent years, 98 Jordan could be top 5.

These is no such year where someone goes 35/5/5 with above average ts% and first team all-defense where there are 5 players better than that. The profile you gave for him is much better than 6th on that list.

Bradley Beal is averaging those stats and he won't make the All-NBA team.

Dont think he is going to make 1st team all-defense.

DirtyDez · Post #15 » by **DirtyDez** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:01 am

2nd team all-nba.

70sFan · Post #16 » by **70sFan** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:26 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:Was Michael Jordan really a top 2 defensive guard in 1998?

I don't find it reasonable either...

DQuinn1575 · Post #17 » by **DQuinn1575** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:39 pm

70sFan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Was Michael Jordan really a top 2 defensive guard in 1998?

I don't find it reasonable either...

You can definitely argue against it and I’m not saying he is or isn’t, but:

3rd best defense in league with Pippen gone 1/2 year, no defensive stopper, Rodman definitely not a main factor.
Leading vote getter on all-defensive team.

So really hard to say not reasonable.
You can doubt it, or strongly argue against it, or
Be fairly certain he’s not.
But there is a reasonable chance he was

No-more-rings · Post #18 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:48 pm

JN61 wrote:If some people think LeBron is the best player in the NBA. I take Jordan over him every day of the week.

35 year old Jordan couldn't do what 35 year old Lebron did though. That version of Jordan relied a lot on mid range jumpers and couldn't playmake or rebound like Lebron.

Hal14 · Post #19 » by **Hal14** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Was Michael Jordan really a top 2 defensive guard in 1998?

Yes. It was him and Payton top 2, debatable which one was no. 1 that year.

JN61 · Post #20 » by **JN61** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:36 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
JN61 wrote:If some people think LeBron is the best player in the NBA. I take Jordan over him every day of the week.

35 year old Jordan couldn't do what 35 year old Lebron did though. That version of Jordan relied a lot on mid range jumpers and couldn't playmake or rebound like Lebron.

What are you talking about? Lebron would never come even remotely close to the scoring load Jordan had on that team. Scoring 30% of his team's points. Lebron is at 23%.... Lebron would have to average 34 points per game to have similar scoring impact on his team... 8 points more he is currently averaging... And mind you, Jordan played in era of significantly harder time to score because defenses allowed to be played. Jordan had that year bigger usage than lebron EVER has had.... Talk about carrying a team... Gimme a break. If it would be about playmaking and rebounds, Westbrook stomps on both of them....