2013 Heat vs 2020 Lakers

rand · Post #1 » by **rand** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 10:43 am

Who wins a best of 7?

limbo · Post #2 » by **limbo** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 12:46 pm

Lakers.

If the 2013 Heat could flip some switch where they could guarantee me they'd reach the level of play that had during that 27 game win streak they had during that RS, then i might reconsider...But i doubt it, as the old/injury prone players started being exposed soon after in the Playoffs...

On a bounce of probabilities, i feel more secure going with the 2020 Lakers, and if the 2013 Heat package also include a laboring Dwyane Wade in the Playoffs, then i feel even more confident about my pick...

AdagioPace · Post #3 » by **AdagioPace** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 12:48 pm

Size would be a huge problem for the 2013 Heat as shown in real life, but I also feel that 2013 Lebron's consistency wouldn't be bothered by the Lakers' defensive schemes starring his reciding hairline-self. (elite analysis right there lol)

Heat in 6 for me

just for reference: Sansterre has the '13 Heat 36th and the '20 Lakers 40th alltime (with an asterisk if I recall, given the not optimal competition)

GYK · Post #4 » by **GYK** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 4:13 pm

Lebron is so much better in 13. He’s great now MVP caliber but he pales in comparison to that timeframe. However Lakers have Davis. His PS was incredible. He is clearly by far the best non Lebron in this playoff series. No one on the Heat can deal with him.
Lakers in 6. Heats only hope is Lebron as I don’t think the Lakers do well against the perimeter(Harden was amazing against them and he’s not apex predator Lebron).

TheGOATRises007 · Post #5 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 4:14 pm

I personally think you can argue 2020 Lebron over 2013 Lebron.

I don't see this being close at all.

Homer38 · Post #6 » by **Homer38** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 7:03 pm

In the regular season,it was the heat even if the lakers were also elite but the lakers were much better come playoffs time,so I choose the lakers.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #7 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 8:20 pm

I'd go with the Lakers due to having two elite players to one for the Heat. Especially with both of them being great in that playoffs and the Heat not really having anyone to deal with AD.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #8 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 8:35 pm

GYK wrote:Lebron is so much better in 13. He’s great now MVP caliber but he pales in comparison to that timeframe. However Lakers have Davis. His PS was incredible. He is clearly by far the best non Lebron in this playoff series. No one on the Heat can deal with him.
Lakers in 6. Heats only hope is Lebron as I don’t think the Lakers do well against the perimeter(Harden was amazing against them and he’s not apex predator Lebron).

That's sort of hyperbolic imo. He hasn't fallen off that much. More so in the role he plays now compared to then which makes max use of his bb iq and his overall confidence in running an offense. Of course defensively he is no longer dpoy caliber but he's still decent on that end.

Djoker · Post #9 » by **Djoker** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 6:18 am

2013 Lebron was significantly better than 2020 Lebron. However this is a legit comparison because Davis is a lot better than any player on that Heat that and the Heat did kind of hit the wall in the playoffs. Then again the Spurs team they faced is way better than anyone the 2020 Lakers faced. I'd say the Heat would win.

GYK · Post #10 » by **GYK** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 6:21 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
GYK wrote:Lebron is so much better in 13. He’s great now MVP caliber but he pales in comparison to that timeframe. However Lakers have Davis. His PS was incredible. He is clearly by far the best non Lebron in this playoff series. No one on the Heat can deal with him.
Lakers in 6. Heats only hope is Lebron as I don’t think the Lakers do well against the perimeter(Harden was amazing against them and he’s not apex predator Lebron).

That's sort of hyperbolic imo. He hasn't fallen off that much. More so in the role he plays now compared to then which makes max use of his bb iq and his overall confidence in running an offense. Of course defensively he is no longer dpoy caliber but he's still decent on that end.

No I meant it exactly. He’s a MVP candidate now. It was barely questioned who was best in the league then.

rand · Post #11 » by **rand** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 7:53 am

GYK wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
GYK wrote:Lebron is so much better in 13. He’s great now MVP caliber but he pales in comparison to that timeframe. However Lakers have Davis. His PS was incredible. He is clearly by far the best non Lebron in this playoff series. No one on the Heat can deal with him.
Lakers in 6. Heats only hope is Lebron as I don’t think the Lakers do well against the perimeter(Harden was amazing against them and he’s not apex predator Lebron).

That's sort of hyperbolic imo. He hasn't fallen off that much. More so in the role he plays now compared to then which makes max use of his bb iq and his overall confidence in running an offense. Of course defensively he is no longer dpoy caliber but he's still decent on that end.

No I meant it exactly. He’s a MVP candidate now. It was barely questioned who was best in the league then.

LeBron was just an "MVP candidate" last season too, until the playoffs roll around and suddenly he's basically the same force he's been in the postseason since 2012: 28/11/9 on 65% TS with huge defensive impact. I don't see much basis for preferring either version...in the playoffs.

HeartBreakKid · Post #12 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 8:26 am

GYK wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
GYK wrote:Lebron is so much better in 13. He’s great now MVP caliber but he pales in comparison to that timeframe. However Lakers have Davis. His PS was incredible. He is clearly by far the best non Lebron in this playoff series. No one on the Heat can deal with him.
Lakers in 6. Heats only hope is Lebron as I don’t think the Lakers do well against the perimeter(Harden was amazing against them and he’s not apex predator Lebron).

That's sort of hyperbolic imo. He hasn't fallen off that much. More so in the role he plays now compared to then which makes max use of his bb iq and his overall confidence in running an offense. Of course defensively he is no longer dpoy caliber but he's still decent on that end.

No I meant it exactly. He’s a MVP candidate now. It was barely questioned who was best in the league then.

Less top end talent in 2013. 2013 was just Durant, CP3 and that's all the sexy names. Steph Curry was coming into his own and was probably the 4th best player...then maybe past prime Tim Duncan?

letskissbro · Post #13 » by **letskissbro** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 9:06 am

I wouldn't pick 2020 LeBron over 2013 but idk where the dismissal of his 2020 season vs. say his 2016-2018 comes from. The same exact pattern held where he looked like a top 2-5 player in the RS but separated himself in the playoffs. He averaged 28/11/9 on 65% TS with poor spacing around him and was a top 3 defender in the playoffs. That's up there with his '16-'18 runs which often get chosen by users of this board as his peak years over Miami. The only difference was that he looked less impressive physically. I don't think it's that far off from his peak years (whatever they are)

I'd take the Lakers just because Davis >>>> Bosh and Wade

GYK · Post #14 » by **GYK** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 10:24 am

rand wrote:
GYK wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
That's sort of hyperbolic imo. He hasn't fallen off that much. More so in the role he plays now compared to then which makes max use of his bb iq and his overall confidence in running an offense. Of course defensively he is no longer dpoy caliber but he's still decent on that end.

No I meant it exactly. He’s a MVP candidate now. It was barely questioned who was best in the league then.

LeBron was just an "MVP candidate" last season too, until the playoffs roll around and suddenly he's basically the same force he's been in the postseason since 2012: 28/11/9 on 65% TS with huge defensive impact. I don't see much basis for preferring either version...in the playoffs.

So you believe he was, in ZERO way saying this negatively, somewhat coasting until he had to reach the playoffs(16-28 games)?
While that is impressive I would argue Heat Lebron if took that approach would be even better. Instead of being better for a full season and playoffs. He could spend his energy just for the PS. I also don’t think he was as good defensively.
I honestly don’t see how Lebron now is better than Lebron then.
If we going strictly PS then AD is massively superior to Wade and Bosh.

rand · Post #15 » by **rand** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 11:37 am

GYK wrote:
rand wrote:
GYK wrote:No I meant it exactly. He’s a MVP candidate now. It was barely questioned who was best in the league then.

LeBron was just an "MVP candidate" last season too, until the playoffs roll around and suddenly he's basically the same force he's been in the postseason since 2012: 28/11/9 on 65% TS with huge defensive impact. I don't see much basis for preferring either version...in the playoffs.

So you believe he was, in ZERO way saying this negatively, somewhat coasting until he had to reach the playoffs(16-28 games)?
While that is impressive I would argue Heat Lebron if took that approach would be even better. Instead of being better for a full season and playoffs. He could spend his energy just for the PS. I also don’t think he was as good defensively.
I honestly don’t see how Lebron now is better than Lebron then.
If we going strictly PS then AD is massively superior to Wade and Bosh.

I think LeBron has been coasting through the regular season since 2017. I don't think he would have been better in the postseason had he coasted through those Heat regular seasons. He was one of the greatest athletes ever to live and in optimal condition. 2877 regular season minutes (LeBron's 2013 total) was not at all an overload for him at age 28, just as 3000 regular season minutes was not an overload for Jordan at that age. He can play that volume of minutes and still be in optimal condition for the postseason. Besides that, I think LeBron needed that time on the court because his game still had a ways to develop.

LeBron in the playoffs last season was more in charge and capable of running the offense and more confident in his 3 point shot selection than in 2013. I think that's true by eye test and stats. Assist Percentage in 2013 (30.5%) vs 2020 (46.4%), with almost no rise in Turnover Percentage. Percentage of LeBron's 2P FGs assisted 2013 (39.8%) vs 2020 (21.8%). Percentage of LeBron's 3P FGs assisted 2013 (61.1%) vs 2020 (45.5%). LeBron's 3P% was practically unchanged between 2020 (37%) and 2013 (37.5%) despite higher volume and less reliance upon others to set him up.

GYK · Post #16 » by **GYK** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 6:35 pm

rand wrote:
GYK wrote:
rand wrote:LeBron was just an "MVP candidate" last season too, until the playoffs roll around and suddenly he's basically the same force he's been in the postseason since 2012: 28/11/9 on 65% TS with huge defensive impact. I don't see much basis for preferring either version...in the playoffs.

So you believe he was, in ZERO way saying this negatively, somewhat coasting until he had to reach the playoffs(16-28 games)?
While that is impressive I would argue Heat Lebron if took that approach would be even better. Instead of being better for a full season and playoffs. He could spend his energy just for the PS. I also don’t think he was as good defensively.
I honestly don’t see how Lebron now is better than Lebron then.
If we going strictly PS then AD is massively superior to Wade and Bosh.

I think LeBron has been coasting through the regular season since 2017. I don't think he would have been better in the postseason had he coasted through those Heat regular seasons. He was one of the greatest athletes ever to live and in optimal condition. 2877 regular season minutes (LeBron's 2013 total) was not at all an overload for him at age 28, just as 3000 regular season minutes were not an overload for Jordan at that age. He can play that volume of minutes and still be in optimal condition for the postseason. Besides that, I think LeBron needed that time on the court because his game still had a ways to develop.

LeBron in the playoffs last season was more in charge and capable of running the offense and more confident in his 3 point shot selection than in 2013. I think that's true by eye test and stats. Assist Percentage in 2013 (30.5%) vs 2020 (46.4%), with almost no rise in Turnover Percentage. Percentage of LeBron's 2P FGs assisted 2013 (39.8%) vs 2020 (21.8%). Percentage of LeBron's 3P FGs assisted 2013 (61.1%) vs 2020 (45.5%). LeBron's 3P% was practically unchanged between 2020 (37%) and 2013 (37.5%) despite higher volume and less reliance upon others to set him up.

Obviously he COULD go full throttle in the RS during his Heat days as he actually did. But why wouldn’t it help his PS for one of greatest primes ever not to just save it for the playoffs?
He also had the ball more in his later years than with the Heat. If you are arguing Lebron now is a better overall player than his former self, fair enough. I disagree completely. But the premise used is that Lebron now got to not have a GOAT tier season but play extremely well in the playoffs as the PG instead of the lead handler(very different in the amount of time with the ball compared to having a starting point and star wing to share with). To me it’s simple the better version of player getting to play in a better situation would do better. I don’t think you would say 2020 Lebron could replace Heatles Lebron for the same effect.