RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project: #67 (Tracy McGrady)

Post #1 » by **trex_8063** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 3:31 pm

2020 List
1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Magic Johnson
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Larry Bird
11. Kevin Garnett
12. Kobe Bryant
13. Jerry West
14. Oscar Robertson
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Karl Malone
17. David Robinson
18. Julius Erving
19. George Mikan
20. Moses Malone
21. Charles Barkley
22. Kevin Durant
23. Chris Paul
24. Stephen Curry
25. Bob Pettit
26. John Stockton
27. Steve Nash
28. Dwyane Wade
29. Patrick Ewing
30. Walt Frazier
31. James Harden
32. Scottie Pippen
33. Elgin Baylor
34. John Havlicek
35. Rick Barry
36. Jason Kidd
37. George Gervin
38. Clyde Drexler
39. Reggie Miller
40. Artis Gilmore
41. Dolph Schayes
42. Kawhi Leonard
43. Isiah Thomas
44. Russell Westbrook
45. Willis Reed
46. Chauncey Billups
47. Paul Pierce
48. Gary Payton
49. Pau Gasol
50. Ray Allen
51. Dwight Howard
52. Kevin McHale
53. Manu Ginobili
54. Dave Cowens
55. Adrian Dantley
56. Sam Jones
57. Bob Lanier
58. Dikembe Mutombo
59. Elvin Hayes
60. Paul Arizin
61. Anthony Davis
62. Robert Parish
63. Bob Cousy
64. Alonzo Mourning
65. Nate Thurmond
66. Allen Iverson
67. ???

Target stop time 10-11am EST on Tuesday.

Spoiler:

Post #2 » by **trex_8063** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 3:40 pm

1st vote: Tracy McGrady
I used to be pretty high on McGrady; my opinion was soured a little noting his less than stellar RAPM [and maybe a smidge by his comments in the '03 playoffs].
But sansterre's made some sort of compelling arguments to where it feels harder and harder to justify some of the others ahead of him. And certainly mid-60s doesn't feel inappropriate at all.

2nd vote: Wes Unseld
Solid [but not great] post defender and team defender (smart in his positioning, physical, and near-impossible to move if he didn't want to be moved; solid box-out big, too). Possible GOAT in screen-setting and outlet passing, as has been often stated. Efficient low-volume scorer, definitely one of the better passing bigs left on the table, and an offensive rebounding threat. Seemingly a model teammate and certainly one of the better intangible leader-types left on the table.

This company feels about right considering his full legacy.

3rd vote: Vince Carter
AI/TMac/Vince are all quite close for me. Carter's got the better longevity, but McGrady's got at least five seasons that are better than Carter's 3rd-best [as well as having the better peak, imo]. It's enough that I have him just a smidge ahead of Vinsanity.

For the record....
Among those with traction, I'm presently going with this order:
McGrady > Unseld > Carter > Wilkins > Parker > Giannis > English > Sheed > Jones > Walton/Jokic (I need to think more about where I'd have Jokic in relation to Walton; both are outside my top 100 as of 2020, though, so unlikely to be ahead of many players who may come up in Condorcet for me)

HeartBreakKid · Post #3 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 3:41 pm

Criteria

Spoiler:

1) Bill Walton. He is the best player by far here. He was probably a top 3 player in the world during his last couple years in college as well, though I believe this is NBA only. I am quite certain that Bill Walton is a top 20 peak ever. He is a top ten defensive anchor which alone adds more value than anyone left, and his offensive passing can generate very efficient offenses without him needing to score.

2)) Nikola Jokic. #2 vote I'll give to the only guy who is large and passes better than Walton. I'm not a longevity guy but Jokic has actually been a star caliber player for longer than people think. He was greatly underplayed in his 2nd season and Malone was criticized for that even back then. He has 4 seasons of all-star impact and two seasons where I had him as the 2nd best player in the league. I do think his offense is so special from his position that it causes an imbalance that makes him more valuable than two way bigs. His scoring ability might be the best among all the bigs left, and what's great about him is that he doesn't need to score a lot to have impact. Walton's defense is so intense that I can't imagine taking Jokic over that, but everyone else left is a tier or 2 down from either Walton's offense or his defense.

3) Giannis Antetokounmpo - I can see why he isn't getting much traction as he's still young. Though he has 6 seasons of being a good player and 5/6 of them he was all-nba caliber I think. Two well deserved MVP's is nothing to scoff at and even though he is slammed for his playoff failures he still did make the conference finals. I am fairly convinced that his crazy ability to finish in the paint as well as have the handles to get into there produces so much gravity that if he played with another real star you wouldn't be able to just "stay back and let Giannis shoot". As he is now he still requires 3-4 guys jumping in the paint - what if you replaced Khris Middleton with Curry, Bryant, Durant, Pierce etc - these are all guys who were 2nd options or co-anchors of teams. Seems like a lot of players who do not have MVP caliber teammates are held to the same standards as guys with them which does not make sense to me. I can see why me picking Jokic would be controversial, but Giannis seems pretty primed for this type of competition - I don't think he is any less valuable than Anthony Davis, and I am still not sure how Davis winning a title with LBJ convinces people that he is a much better post season player than Giannis.

Unseld > R Wallace >McGrady> Jones> English> Greer> Parker> Wilkins

Post #4 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 3:46 pm

1. Alex English -- Versatility, consistency, and character put English over the likes of Dantley, Nique, Tmac, etc. English played many roles and always made his teams better no matter what role Denver played him in. He was a solid 35-30ppg scorer at above average efficiency for a full decade. In the 1980s he scored more points than Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkens, Adrian Dantley, Isiah Thomas, Moses Malone, or well, anyone. And he did it while generally guarding the better of the opponents starting forwards in the era of the great scoring forwards. From watching him, I have him as the only above average defender among the killer lineup of great scoring fowards of his era (Bird, Gervin, Nique, AD, King, Aquirre). One of the most underrated players in history. Also won numerous citizenship awards, one of the great people to play the game.

2. Bobby Jones, another English type player with super consistency and versatility though a defensive star instead of an offensive one, then maybe Parish. Note that Jones has more 1st team All-Defense teams than any other player in history with 11 (2 ABA). He was 1st All-Defense team every year of his career until his final one where he was 2nd team.

3. Giannis -- Highest prime left outside of Walton but more than 1.5 seasons as a star plus 1 as a reserve, doesn't have the multiple years of hurting his team due to salary/injury.

After Giannis, then Unseld, Mourning, Thurmond, Parker, Nique, Tmac, Hawkins, Moncrief. Those are subject to change and new players to be added. I don't have either Iverson or Walton on my top 100 despite their iconic status.

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 3:47 pm

English v. Nique v. Tmac

Two of the greatest scorers of the 80s, both classy guys who stayed with one team for a decade. Tmac is a more modern player who gets the advantage of the 3 point shot being used in his lifetime but suffers in terms of leadership and locker room issues as more than 1 of his coaches have complained about his practice habits and insistence on doing things his way instead of playing within the team concept.

Defensively, Tmac has the edge on peak, English on consistency. Strangely enough Wilkins probably played on the best defensive teams with those Mike Fratello Hawks squads but he fails the eye test, once getting voted "player who puts the least effort on defense" in a player contest in Sports Illustrated (over George Gervin who came in second). Tmac could be a terrific defender when locked in; English started with more of a rep as a defensive player than a scorer in Milwaukee and Indiana before coming to Denver and starting a run where he scored more points during the 80s than anyone else, including Larry Bird, Adrian Dantley, and Nique among others.

IN terms of scoring, English is the most efficient, shooting at a .550 ts% for his career, Nique is behind him at .536, with Tmac trailing at .519 though in a tougher defensive era. Since the main value of each of the three is their volume scoring, this seems a strong argument for English. On the other hand, while all three were big volume scorers, Nique scored the most per 100 possessions at 34.5pts (though he was also the most frequently iso scorer rather than scoring in the flow of the offense), Tmac is a 31.6 and English at 30.4. Tmac has the single dominant season of the 3 when Grant Hill went down to injury and Orlando featured Tmac all the time every time; but he was also less consistent and more often injured than the other two. Note: Using the per 100 figure to avoid giving an advantage to English over Nique since English played in an extremely high pace system in DEN and Nique in a relatively low paced one in ATL.

In terms of playmaking, Tmac was the primary playmaker at 7.1 assists per 100 possessions, English a decent secondary playmaker at 5.1, and Wilkins not creating much for others at 3.5. Nique turned the ball over 3.5 times/100 possessions as did Tmac with English in the same neighborhood at 3.3. Rebounding gives the edge to Nique by a hair of Tmac at 9.3 v. 9.1 v. 7.7 to English.

In terms of versatility and a willingness to take on different roles to help the team, English has a strong case, at different times, he was the primary front court defensive stopper (next to Kiki Vandeweghe and Dan Issel, on an admittedly terrible defensive front court), a post up threat (same team), the primary outside shooter (later teams with Fat Lever and TR Dunn at guard), a point forward, an offball player, etc. Tmac played much more 2 guard and even some 4 which neither of the other two did much of, he even played PG at time. Nique changed his game to incorporate a 3 point shot toward the end of his career which English never really added.

Playoff success is the one additional factor that frequently gets mentioned. Tmac went to the playoffs less and never got out of the 1st round but had some great numbers in losing series. From watching him, he tended to play less well when his teammates were strong but would suddenly take on the superman mantle when Hill went out in Orlando or when Yao would get injured in Houston and just be a one man wrecking crew. English's numbers didn't drop at all in the playoffs, maybe because of his versatility. His teams had one WCF appearance and 4 times into the second round for the most playoff success of the 3. Nique is one of the great whose number drop the most precipitously in playoff competition; maybe because he tended to one particular style that could be gamed more, I don't know. He had ATL in the playoffs every year but two but only got out of the 1st round 3 times in the stacked East of his era.

I have it English, Wilkins, Tmac based primarily on efficiency, consistency, and character. Nique and TMac have a definite advantage in flash being great dunkers while English would get a "quiet" 25-30; Nique also had possibly the greatest nickname in NBA history -- this translated into more accolades for the two flashier players.

Dutchball97 · Post #6 » by **Dutchball97** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 4:31 pm

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo - Not the best longevity as he's only 26 and needed a few seasons to grow into his own but at this point in the list I'd definitely argue that 4 elite seasons that include solid post-season play every one of those years is really good. We've already voted in players with similar longevity to that and Giannis' peak is nothing to scoff at. He just lacks that one play-off run that cements him as elite in the post-season to place him ahead of the likes of Arizin or AD in my book. That said I do think Giannis' perception suffers from the same thing as Harden and that's the post-season play generally not living up to the standards set by their insane regular season play even though they still perform really well in the play-offs. Giannis had a disappointing post-season last year but he still had a 31.3 PER, .238 WS/48 and 11.2 BPM over 9 games. Bud's schemes not holding up, Bledsoe starting and Middleton seemingly unable to make a shot when Giannis is on the floor with him are the things that I blame more for the Bucks second round exit than I do Giannis' performance.

2. Tracy McGrady - T-Mac is pretty much the guard version of Bob Lanier. Both had a high peak, solid prime length and generally played well in the post-season despite little team success. I feel like he's definitely on the level of the last couple of picks and only got moved to the back of that list because the others generally did have deeper play-off runs. Even though he didn't seem to be able to make it past the first round, he did play well and looking at the numbers there is even a case to be made that T-Mac actually consistently stepped his play up in the play-offs.

3. Wes Unseld - I've mainly voted for players with high peaks but I find myself dabbling into longevity cases more around this part of the list. I've voted Parish and Hayes as well based on similar arguments. None of them might have peaked near MVP level but it's not like we're talking about roleplayers either. Unseld played at a high level for over a decade and especially his play-off impact stands out at this point. He has 4 very deep post-season runs in 71, 75, 77 and 78. In every single one of those years he consistently performed at a high level.

Nikola Jokic > Vince Carter > Anfernee Hardaway > Alex English > James Worthy > Bobby Jones > Rasheed Wallace > Hal Greer > Tony Parker > Dominique Wilkins > Dennis Rodman > Bill Walton

sansterre · Post #7 » by **sansterre** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 6:19 pm

It is my custom only to run numbers on players that get votes or are discussed. So if somebody suddenly gets mentioned, don't be surprised if they pop up on my list.

1. Tracy McGrady. I've spoilered my wad of posts about McGrady for length.

Spoiler:

2. Vince Carter - I know, I know. I move on from one guy famous for scoring who never won anything onto a second guy famous for dunking who never won anything. I'm sorry. But, not kidding, I think Vince deserves some love. Instead of being voted in for his dunking (which I really could not care less about) let's appreciate this guy. We're talking a guy who is 15th all-time in minutes. From 2000-2007 he averaged a +5.1 OBPM over 21.6k minutes. But he's also got another 18k minutes averaging above a +2 OBPM. I'm not trying to brag about a +2 OBPM, but my point is that he was averaging +5 OBPM for almost a Bill-Sharman-career number of minutes, and then he went on to continue being a solid (but not great) offensive player for another wad of minutes comparable to Kawhi's entire career so far. That is *insane* levels of longevity. Let me put it another way: Carter played more career regular season minutes than Robert Parish. At his peak he was a solid volume scorer, with solid passing numbers and low turnovers. In fact, let's compare Vince (ages 23-28) to Kobe at the same ages:

Kobe: 33.0% Usage, 55.8% TS, 8.3% REB (3.5 OREB), 26.0% AST, 11.0% TO, +5.9 OBPM (450 games)
Vince: 30.7% Usage, 53.2% TS, 7.9% REB (5.2 OREB), 22.4% AST, 9.2% TO, +5.3 OBPM (410 games)

I'm not trying to say that Carter was Kobe-level during his peak. He wasn't. But he's in the same ballpark. And that's a massive credit, considering that a) we're in the mid-60s right now and b) Vince played another billion minutes after this. Let's check playoffs:

Kobe: 30.8% Usage, 52.5% TS, 6.9% REB (2.7 OREB), 22.6% AST, 11.1% TO, +4.6 OBPM
Vince: 29.9% Usage, 50.4% TS, 9.4% REB (7.6 OREB), 24.1% AST, 9.3% TO, +5.8 OBPM

"But," you may say, "that's all box-score metrics. His actual impact was worse, because we know that he was a selfish weasel." But his WOWYR, while not great, is a respectable +3.5 (and that's over an 11-year peak), which is about average for the players being mentioned now. And AuRPM actually quite likes him. From 2000 to 2017 he put up the following number of seasons in each range:

+5s: 4
+4s: 4
+3s: 3
+2s: 4
+1s: 2

None of those are bonkers seasons, but that is a buttload of career value. And his numbers don't appreciably slip in the playoffs. He had a strong (but not dominant peak), and then put up buckets (literally and figuratively) of value in the rest of his career. Let's give this guy some love.

3. Rasheed Wallace - I was shocked to have Rasheed jump leaps and bounds over everyone besides McGrady. Pretty much every metric really, really likes him. VORP (which punishes inefficient scoring) only has him slightly above average for this group, but he has the 3rd highest WSCORP and 2nd highest BPCorp. His PIPMCORP is really good, and his WOWYR of +6.0 is the highest of anyone remaining by a good margin (unless you're counting Bill Walton or Sidney Moncrief). So all the box-score driven metrics think fairly well of him, but the impact metrics think he's even better. Don't forget that he had a habit of showing up on teams that were way better than they seemingly should have been, from the '00 Blazers to the '04-05 Pistons. And also let's point out that the '04 Pistons switched from very good to murderous the second they acquired Rasheed. I'm very comfortable with him being here.

McGrady > Carter > R.Wallace > Nance > B.Wallace > Grant > Marion > Unseld > Moncrief > Bosh > A.Hardaway > Parker > Issel > Giannis > Greer > Wilkins > Worthy > B.Jones > Walton > Jokic > English > McAdoo

Post #8 » by **trex_8063** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 6:29 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Unseld > Wallace >McGrady> Jones> English> Greer> Parker> Wilkins

I don't think I ever clarified which Wallace you're referring to.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #9 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 7:33 pm

66. Alex English
-Nice combo of size, athleticism and scoring skills. Good length of prime and leading or co leading teams that were somewhat competitive(usually 1st or 2nd rd exits). 3x all nba 2nd team. 6x top 15 in mvp voting. 23rd all time scorer on 103 ts+ for career(1.5% above league average).

67. Hal Greer
-7x all nba 2nd team. 9-10 year prime where he is between 20-23ppg on very good efficiency(ts+ between 103 and 106) while being a + defender. Many high scoring playoff runs including the 67 title Sixers that he led in playoff scoring(27.7ppg).

68. Giannis Antetokounmpo
-Perhaps the highest peak of any player left(along with Walton and Jokic) and I am very reserved on ranking any player whose prime is in the 3-5 year range but he's been at such a high level for the last 2.5 seasons with another 2 strong seasons prior that I have to rank him here. Just an all around unstoppable type of player who I think could do very well in a reduced usage role as well.

69. Wilkins
70. Tmac
71. Parker
72. Unseld
73. Jones
74. McAdoo
75. Iverson
76. Lucas
77. Hagan
78. Worthy
79. Dumars
80. Cheeks
81. Rodman
82. DeBusschere
83. Hill
84. Johnston
85. KJ
86. Carter
87. Irving
88. Bellamy
89. Issel
90. Jokic
91. Wallace
92. Mullin
93. Cunningham
94. Nance
95. Moncrief
96. Price
97. Rasheed
98. Aldridge
99. Silas
100. Dennis Johnson

HeartBreakKid · Post #10 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Mar 7, 2021 10:42 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Unseld > Wallace >McGrady> Jones> English> Greer> Parker> Wilkins

I don't think I ever clarified which Wallace you're referring to.

Oops, for some reason I thought Ben Wallace was already in so I didn't bother to clarify.

It's Rasheed Wallace.

Post #11 » by **trex_8063** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 2:00 pm

Thru post #10:

Tracy McGrady - 2 (sansterre, trex_8063)
Alex English - 2 (Cavsfansince84, penbeast0)
Bill Walton - 1 (HeartBreakKid)
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 1 (Dutchball97)

About 25 or so hours left for this one [although is a slim possibility it may go longer, since I'm not sure I'll be able to tend to it at the scheduled time due to anticipated being busier than usual at work tomorrow].

Spoiler:

Hal14 · Post #12 » by **Hal14** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 2:18 pm

1. Alex English
2. Dominique Wilkins
3. Dennis Rodman

English barely gets the edge over Wilkins. Very close. But English with the advantage on shooting efficiency and slight edge on defense and passing barely gives him the nod over Wilkins.

Both Wilkins and English were extremely elite players throughout the 80s - English was the decade's leading scorer while Dominique had higher finishes in MVP voting. Both are right there in that next tier of great players from the 80s after Bird/Magic/Jordan. Both English and Wilkins were absolutely lethal scorers who also helped their team in other ways. Neither had great team success, but it's understandable given the highly competitive era with so many great teams that were stacked with better supporting casts than they had. If either guy carried their teams to the finals they would have been voted in way before now.

As for Rodman, apparently I'm higher on him than others. Rodman was:

-Top 5 rebounder of all time arguably the best
-Top 5 defender of all time - arguably the best
-In terms of running through a wall to make a play, going all out to help his team, hustle, diving on the floor for loose balls - he's also top 5 of all time in that, arguably the best
-Won 5 titles. Was a top 3 player on his team for 3 of those titles (96-98) and probably a top 3 player on the other 2 (89, 90)..many people even think he should have won finals MVP in 96.

To me, that's good enough to be a top 69 player of all time. Sure, you can say that he couldn't score and that he was a head case who at times caused team turmoil - but that's why he's here and not 20 spots higher.

Love him or hate him, you've got to respect that he was one of the greatest players of all time:

Watch on YouTube

Post #13 » by **trex_8063** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 2:53 pm

penbeast0 wrote:English v. Nique v. Tmac

I've responded to this post in a prior thread, but I'll bullet point a couple things I'd elaborated on for anyone reading.....

The way you've listed turnovers seems to imply all fairly similar, with English possibly having the best turnover economy of the three by a tiny margin. As I noted in a previous thread, though, his overall turnover economy is almost identical to Wilkins' (Nique was getting up significantly more shots [without turning the ball over significantly more]), with TMac having better turnover economy than either by a clear margin.

Defensively, I know you're holding to this sometime "defensive stopper" label for English, which is based on eye-test; so I'm just going to provide my own eye-test counterpoint: I don't see it. He has just never looked special defensively to me [and some of those Nugget defenses were downright awful]. Is it possible that he merely looked like a "stopper" to you in comparison to Kiki Vandeweghe?

At any rate, is whatever marginal defensive edge, the marginal edge in shooting efficiency [on lesser volume], and better playoff consistency sufficient to justify having him 30-40+ places ahead of Wilkins [particularly given Wilkins was also a class act, was a superior rebounder, led nearly similar-tiered offenses with LESS offensive help, and has comparable longevity]?

Post #14 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Mar 8, 2021 5:57 pm

I like English's offense better than Nique's BECAUSE he was able to provide almost as much scoring volume without needing to have the "clear a side, isolation" style offense that typified a lot of Nique's scoring.

I don't rate Rodman as one of the top 5 defenders of all time; all the top defenders in my book are rim protecting bigs. One of the top 5 defensive forwards who weren't F/C's, okay. Behind Bobby Jones and Pippen for me though as they provided more off ball defense and turnovers as well as the man defense; I will say that with defensive rebounding considered a part of defense, Rodman closes the gap and might have a better prime though career defensive value is hurt a bit by his leaving his man to chase rebounds in SA and sometimes in CHI. Good choice here though; probably the GOAT rebounder of all time.

HeartBreakKid · Post #15 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Mar 9, 2021 3:23 am

trex_8063 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:English v. Nique v. Tmac

I've responded to this post in a prior thread, but I'll bullet point a couple things I'd elaborated on for anyone reading.....

The way you've listed turnovers seems to imply all fairly similar, with English possibly having the best turnover economy of the three by a tiny margin. As I noted in a previous thread, though, his overall turnover economy is almost identical to Wilkins' (Nique was getting up significantly more shots [without turning the ball over significantly more]), with TMac having better turnover economy than either by a clear margin.

Defensively, I know you're holding to this sometime "defensive stopper" label for English, which is based on eye-test; so I'm just going to provide my own eye-test counterpoint: I don't see it. He has just never looked special defensively to me [and some of those Nugget defenses were downright awful]. Is it possible that he merely looked like a "stopper" to you in comparison to Kiki Vandeweghe?

At any rate, is whatever marginal defensive edge, the marginal edge in shooting efficiency [on lesser volume], and better playoff consistency sufficient to justify having him 30-40+ places ahead of Wilkins [particularly given Wilkins was also a class act, was a superior rebounder, led nearly similar-tiered offenses with LESS offensive help, and has comparable longevity]?

Alex English was a better off ball player by a good amount. That is probably what would separate him from Dantley, Melo, Wilkins, etc.

Even if English isn't a stopper he's still considerably better on defense than Wilkins I would think.

Odinn21 · Post #16 » by **Odinn21** » Tue Mar 9, 2021 6:45 am

67. Tony Parker
His peak is underrated, also how long his peak lasted is underrated. I'd personally pick 2013 as his peak but I definitely see someone going for 2009 which was only to be disrupted by injury in 2010 in the future. In 2009, he was in the top 10% percentile in impact numbers. In 2012 and 2013 he was in the very top 1%. He usually is considered as not so great impact player but he really was at his best. His prime duration beyond peak duration was also good. He had 9 seasons of actual prime with 4 seasons worthy of peak. Even before going into extended prime which I usually refer as just prime, he was a force for a decade and a half. Yeah, his overall longevity is worse than Parish without a doubt but I think edges going in his favour for peak and prime are more than that.
Some of us in here usually look at WS or VORP but in Parker's case, sheer numbers are more telling.
He's #10* in total points and #5 in total assists in the pro playoff history. It's very likely that Durant will surpass Parker for that #10 spot in 2021 playoffs but the point stands still. Parker is the only player in top 20 to make the list yet it's obvious that his peak/prime/longevity stack more than enough at this point in the list.
(*He's #9 in the NBA playoff history. Erving's ABA career.)

68. Wes Unseld
Well, like I keep saying I'm bigger on higher scoring thus better floor raisers but I think Unseld's combination of defense, rebounding and facilitating is tad better than McGrady's insane offensive output with considering the prime durations and the times they played in.

69. Tracy McGrady
Probably the best peak and prime left on the board. But his longevity is an issue to be addressed.

---

English > Sheed > Carter > Greer > Wilkins > Giannis > Jokic > B. Jones > Walton

Post #17 » by **trex_8063** » Tue Mar 9, 2021 3:10 pm

Thru post #16:

Alex English - 3 (Cavsfansince84, Hal14, penbeast0)
Tracy McGrady - 2 (sansterre, trex_8063)
Bill Walton - 1 (HeartBreakKid)
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 1 (Dutchball97)
Tony Parker - 1 (Odinn21)

8 votes requires 5 for a majority. The bottom three are first eliminated, which transfers two to McGrady, and ghosts the other.....

McGrady - 4
English - 3
(ghosted) - 1

So McGrady is a non-majority default winner, which we'll validate against English. The one ghosted vote [HBK] favours TMac over English as well. So TMac leads in Condorcet 5-3.

Calling it for Tracy. Will get the next up in a moment.

Spoiler: