Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities?

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Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#1 » by No-more-rings » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:45 pm

The Warriors are 21-20 with him playing 39 games and Draymond 35. The Warriors are 22nd in ORTG too, that's actually really surprising considering how much credit he would tend to get for all those elite offenses he ran. I get that he's past his peak now, but he should still be considered in his prime.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#2 » by parsnips33 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:50 pm

Might wanna look at only minutes he's in the game, just anecdotally our bench units have been let's say offensively challenged
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#3 » by WestGOAT » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:56 pm

I think some other posters raised similar points on this sub-board (Gobert vs Curry), and also the general board. I think it's definitely up for dicussion, since a Lillard-lead Blazers have an ORtg of 116.7 (6th of 30), with CJ and Nurkic missing substantial minutes.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#4 » by SactoKingsFan » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:12 pm

Not really. They've been playing Wiggins + Oubre 30+ minutes and Wiseman is still very raw. Draymond isn't the same Draymond from when he could kind of shoot at a respectable level.

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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#5 » by Cavsfansince84 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:23 pm

WestGOAT wrote:I think some other posters raised similar points on this sub-board (Gobert vs Curry), and also the general board. I think it's definitely up for dicussion, since a Lillard-lead Blazers have an ORtg of 116.7 (6th of 30), with CJ and Nurkic missing substantial minutes.


I think it's likely that Steph has his own way of playing at this point and isn't going to change it just to try and move the needle from being a .500 team to trying to get a 6-7 seed in the west. I mean Kerr's already on record saying he won't play Steph extra minutes just to chase more wins. So they're clearly just letting this season play out knowing that next they get Klay back and can maybe add a fringe all star to bolster their depth. Is Dame doing a better job? Probably but I'd say he's more used to having that role on a team than Steph is. Steph's never gone full carry mode on offense outside of 2016 and even then they were obliterating everyone with him only having to play like 32mpg. He's not going to be able to do it now at the age of 31 or 32 with a somewhat long injury history. The goal is just to get him through the season healthy and hopefully have a 2-3 year window left to contend starting next year.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#6 » by Dr Positivity » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:34 pm

The Warriors were at sub 20 W pace last year and wouldn't be much better this year without Curry so not really
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#7 » by Lenneth » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:55 pm

The reason their ORTG is 22nd is because Warriors' rebounding is at the bottom. That's one thing Curry can't do much about it, although he is pulling 5+ rebs per game. Without that Warriors' offense is above average. And, they just don't have much scorers in general. Wiggins is probably the only player who can score semi-regularly.

Half of Warriors' rosters are rookies or 2nd year, and they are getting regular minutes. That generally happens to rebuilding teams, not the team aiming to be contenders. I guess Warriors will at least stick with their youth movement till the end of this season, since they are not going anywhere this season. I do expect Warriors to fill the roster with vets next year.

And Warriors were 15-50 last year without Curry. 21-20 seems pretty good compared to that. And, their SOS was top 3 toughest schedule till now, and the remaining schedules are bottom 3. I expect Warriors to cruise the remaining of the season barring from injuries.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#8 » by Clyde Frazier » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:21 pm

parsnips33 wrote:Might wanna look at only minutes he's in the game, just anecdotally our bench units have been let's say offensively challenged


Yup, with steph and draymond on they have a +3.76 net rating and 115.7 ORtg (995 min). That'd be good for 9th in the league in offense. With both off (611 min so not nothing) GSW drops to -4.66 net rating and 102.3 ORtg.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#9 » by parsnips33 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:26 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
WestGOAT wrote:I think some other posters raised similar points on this sub-board (Gobert vs Curry), and also the general board. I think it's definitely up for dicussion, since a Lillard-lead Blazers have an ORtg of 116.7 (6th of 30), with CJ and Nurkic missing substantial minutes.


I think it's likely that Steph has his own way of playing at this point and isn't going to change it just to try and move the needle from being a .500 team to trying to get a 6-7 seed in the west. I mean Kerr's already on record saying he won't play Steph extra minutes just to chase more wins. So they're clearly just letting this season play out knowing that next they get Klay back and can maybe add a fringe all star to bolster their depth. Is Dame doing a better job? Probably but I'd say he's more used to having that role on a team than Steph is. Steph's never gone full carry mode on offense outside of 2016 and even then they were obliterating everyone with him only having to play like 32mpg. He's not going to be able to do it now at the age of 31 or 32 with a somewhat long injury history. The goal is just to get him through the season healthy and hopefully have a 2-3 year window left to contend starting next year.


How much is Steph's decision to play a certain way versus organizational/coaching mandate? We've seen Steph put up elite numbers, both counting and advanced stats, in the Mark Jackson years, while carrying a team to the playoffs and overperforming relative to expectations once the team got there. And that was in a very different role than he plays in the Steve Kerr iteration.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#10 » by WestGOAT » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:54 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
WestGOAT wrote:I think some other posters raised similar points on this sub-board (Gobert vs Curry), and also the general board. I think it's definitely up for dicussion, since a Lillard-lead Blazers have an ORtg of 116.7 (6th of 30), with CJ and Nurkic missing substantial minutes.


I think it's likely that Steph has his own way of playing at this point and isn't going to change it just to try and move the needle from being a .500 team to trying to get a 6-7 seed in the west. I mean Kerr's already on record saying he won't play Steph extra minutes just to chase more wins. So they're clearly just letting this season play out knowing that next they get Klay back and can maybe add a fringe all star to bolster their depth. Is Dame doing a better job? Probably but I'd say he's more used to having that role on a team than Steph is. Steph's never gone full carry mode on offense outside of 2016 and even then they were obliterating everyone with him only having to play like 32mpg. He's not going to be able to do it now at the age of 31 or 32 with a somewhat long injury history. The goal is just to get him through the season healthy and hopefully have a 2-3 year window left to contend starting next year.


How much is Steph's decision to play a certain way versus organizational/coaching mandate? We've seen Steph put up elite numbers, both counting and advanced stats, in the Mark Jackson years, while carrying a team to the playoffs and overperforming relative to expectations once the team got there. And that was in a very different role than he plays in the Steve Kerr iteration.


For sure, I actually posted in past that I'd love to see more of on-ball Curry, but Kerr seems very much in love with his "system".
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#11 » by Cavsfansince84 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:00 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
How much is Steph's decision to play a certain way versus organizational/coaching mandate? We've seen Steph put up elite numbers, both counting and advanced stats, in the Mark Jackson years, while carrying a team to the playoffs and overperforming relative to expectations once the team got there. And that was in a very different role than he plays in the Steve Kerr iteration.


I think it's both. I think they are trying to get other guys to step up as well and see what they can do. I don't think wins really even matter to Kerr or the gs f/o that much this year. That's what happens when a team goes to 5 straight finals though. It's not like they are going to be excited by just making the playoffs.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#12 » by parsnips33 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:51 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:
How much is Steph's decision to play a certain way versus organizational/coaching mandate? We've seen Steph put up elite numbers, both counting and advanced stats, in the Mark Jackson years, while carrying a team to the playoffs and overperforming relative to expectations once the team got there. And that was in a very different role than he plays in the Steve Kerr iteration.


I think it's both. I think they are trying to get other guys to step up as well and see what they can do. I don't think wins really even matter to Kerr or the gs f/o that much this year. That's what happens when a team goes to 5 straight finals though. It's not like they are going to be excited by just making the playoffs.


You're totally on point here, as frustrating as it is as a fan

I'm of the opinion if you have a guy who has a case for best offensive player in the league AND a guy who has a case for best defensive player in the league, you might as well go for it
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#13 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:36 am

The Warriors score 114.7 per 100 with Curry
The Warriors score 97.2 per 100 without Curry

That's +17.5 per 100 possessions.

The Warriors went for being the worst team in the NBA to be in the better half. You have your real dumb to think that's not floor raising.

114.7 is exactly what the Lakers score with LeBron on the court, but it just so happens that they score 106.4 with him off (+8.3). Lillard is also just 0.1 behind Curry at +17.4, and Jokic is tied at +17.5. Luka is +13.8.

You might as well start a thread saying James Harden can't score or get assist.
PockyCandy wrote:Is Ball's shot any more ugly than Curry's? Curry just seems to launch it towards the basket like an 8 year old.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#14 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:55 am

I think they're doing fine.

Hopefully this puts some light on how a player like Kevin Garnett can't get good seeding or make the playoffs sometimes in the West. Seemingly because the guy can't score is the reason yet we see a guy in argument for best offensive player of all time not having the easiest of times.

Not all bad teams are created equal. The Warriors have a way worse roster than other guys who are seemingly "by themselves".
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#15 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:13 am

parsnips33 wrote:Might wanna look at only minutes he's in the game, just anecdotally our bench units have been let's say offensively challenged


Playing is part of value too, to an extent.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#16 » by JustJoe » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:03 am

WestGOAT wrote:I think some other posters raised similar points on this sub-board (Gobert vs Curry), and also the general board. I think it's definitely up for dicussion, since a Lillard-lead Blazers have an ORtg of 116.7 (6th of 30), with CJ and Nurkic missing substantial minutes.

This biggest reason why the Blazer are so much better than the Warriors on offense is because they completely disregard defense in order to bolster their offense. With Dame on the floor the Blazers have 120.2 Ortg and 119.1 Drtg. They have a 107.5 Ortg with Dame on the bench. With Curry on the floor the Warriors have a 113.8 Ortg and a 112.2 Drtg. With Curry on the bench the Warriors have a 101.7 Ortg.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#17 » by Leslie Forman » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:42 am

I'd say that carrying what would probably be, without him, the absolute flat out worst team in the league to .500ish and a possible playoff spot in the West is doing the complete opposite.

That Warriors team really is a steaming pile of turds.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#18 » by 70sFan » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 am

Curry situation shows that it doesn't matter if you're a great offensive or defensive player - sometimes your team is too bad to carry it alone. The only difference is that people still recognise Curry's greatness because he scores a lot of points, but defensive superstars usually don't have as high raw averages...
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#19 » by Peregrine01 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:30 pm

No but I think this year brings into question Bob Myers' GM skills.
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Re: Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities? 

Post#20 » by jamaalstar21 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:03 pm

I think there's no question that Curry compromises defenses and creates excellent opportunities for his teammates. Obviously big drop off from creating opportunities for Klay and Durant vs. Wiggins, Oubre and Wiseman. The question we all seem to be struggling with is how big a drop off. On one hand we see Wiggins and Oubre and think about how they've both put up PPG in their careers, and are good athletes. On the other hand, both these guys are some of the lowest BBIQ players in the league. Wiggins specifically is maybe the worst off-ball player I've ever watched (on both ends). He isn't the kind of guy to take a couple proactive steps to set himself up to finish when he sees Steph curling to the corner, dragging an extra man, off a screen. Wiggins does what Kerr tells him too, but otherwise his brain only wakes up when the ball is within 1 foot of his face. Wiseman recently flashed the ability to put his hands up (in preperation to catch a pass) when rolling to the basket, and Warriors analysts threw a party like he'd just invented a new stream of particle physics research. Oubre has energy but has no idea what to do with it. Sometimes it's like Curry/Draymond and 3 Javale McGees, but at least Javale knows how to rush into dunking position.

I dunno. I expected Curry's Warriors to be a bit better on offense, but I really am lost trying to assess this Golden State roster. I think Curry looks pretty awesome most nights. I really appreciate his craft and cleverness as much as his raw firepower. For people who are demanding more "on-ball Curry"... I don't see it. I've always found Curry to be pretty average as a passer in those situations, going back to his early days. I think Kerr sees a Curry-ccentric offense either way and Curry's off-ball game creates more team offense than his on-ball one. Especially with Draymond facilitating. Curry could probably do a decent Dame impression (I think Dame has a little more power when he gets into defenders bodies), but I don't think that leads to better team offense.

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