Peak form, Kobe+Kawhi or CP3+KG

dygaction · Post #1 » by **dygaction** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:34 pm

Assuming everyone is healthy during the regular season and playoffs.

Post #2 » by **zimpy27** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:37 pm

CP3+KG for me.

The team defense would be better and the team offense would be better.

BIGJ1ER · Post #3 » by **BIGJ1ER** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:10 pm

I think KG peaked highest here, and CP3 Debatably peaked 2nd.

This isn't a difficult choice for me.

Plus I don't think Kobe and Kawhi is a great fit, too much redundancy

Cavsfansince84 · Post #4 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:11 pm

To me this is CP3+KG for two reasons:
1. defense
2. The x factor of how well Kawhi's offense would be put to use on a team that featured Kobe. We never saw Kobe operate with another semi high usage perimeter player in a meaningful way. So its unclear to me how well it would work.

Lost92Bricks · Post #5 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:38 pm

I don't understand the votes. CP3/KG is not dominant enough offensively. Kobe and Kawhi is a great defensive duo and they are great volume scorers. I think maybe the small/big combo just looks sexier.

dygaction · Post #6 » by **dygaction** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:47 pm

zimpy27 wrote:CP3+KG for me.

The team defense would be better and the team offense would be better.

Defense maybe, but offense? Kobe+Kawhi is poor man's Jordan + super rich man's Pippen.

HeartBreakKid · Post #7 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:48 pm

Lost92Bricks wrote:I don't understand the votes. CP3/KG is not dominant enough offensively. Kobe and Kawhi is a great defensive duo and they are great volume scorers. I think maybe the small/big combo just looks sexier.

Paul and Garnett on offense seems like a very natural combination. They'd run the pick and roll pretty much as well as any body. Just the PnR chemistry alone would make up a lot of ground that they're lacking in raw PPG relative to Leonard and Bryant.

I am not even really sure what a Bryant/Leonard based offense would look like. They score almost the exact same way in the exact same spots. A lot of diminished returns.

CP3/Garnett is pretty easily a better defensive combination. CP3 is a better defender than peak Bryant by a lot. And well, Garnett is a better defender than Leonard by a lot.

I mean Garnett and CP3 give you everything you would already need to build a team. Perhaps the only thing they're lacking is a traditional high volume PPG guy, but their ball handling and passing ability is more than enough to make up for that.

Bryant/Leonard still lacks a rim protector, a roll guy, a stretch big, a rim protector, a double digit rebounder, a primary ball handler. There are way more questions to ask, and individually they're not really more talented than CP3/Garnett either.

Post #8 » by **zimpy27** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:03 am

dygaction wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:CP3+KG for me.

The team defense would be better and the team offense would be better.

Defense maybe, but offense? Kobe+Kawhi is poor man's Jordan + super rich man's Pippen.

A CP3-KG two man is going to be more efficient than what either Kobe or Kawhi could muster.

I have Kawhi equal to Pippen and I have MJ quite a bit above Kobe.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #9 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:15 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:I don't understand the votes. CP3/KG is not dominant enough offensively. Kobe and Kawhi is a great defensive duo and they are great volume scorers. I think maybe the small/big combo just looks sexier.

Not dominant enough to do what? KG at his peak with Sam Cassell as his pg/2nd best player led a team to 58 wins with the 5th ranked ORtg and 6th ranked DRtg. Now you are replacing Cassell who is maybe all star level with a pg whose peak is like top 5 all time at his position. I think the offense will be just fine, especially when complimented with the defense. Even in today's league.

LakerLegend · Post #10 » by **LakerLegend** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:44 am

Kobe and Kawhi...easily. Total dominance on both ends.

Paul and Garnett have more weaknesses to exploit.

LakerLegend · Post #11 » by **LakerLegend** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:44 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Lost92Bricks wrote: CP3 is a better defender than peak Bryant by a lot.

"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."

https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4972/it-s-the-lakers-court-but-it-s-the-celtics-house

Lost92Bricks · Post #12 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:57 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote: Not dominant enough to do what? KG at his peak with Sam Cassell as his pg/2nd best player led a team to 58 wins with the 5th ranked ORtg and 6th ranked DRtg. Now you are replacing Cassell who is maybe all star level with a pg whose peak is like top 5 all time at his position. I think the offense will be just fine, especially when complimented with the defense. Even in today's league.

Not in general just in this comparison. Kobe and Kawhi are both elite offensive players.

HeartBreakKid · Post #13 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:06 am

LakerLegend wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Lost92Bricks wrote: CP3 is a better defender than peak Bryant by a lot.

"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."

https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4972/it-s-the-lakers-court-but-it-s-the-celtics-house

*looks at username

Doc Rivers is one of the worst GMs and judge of talent in the league lol. Also, that article is from 2008...Chris Paul was only in his third season when that happened.

If you think 06-08 Kobe Bryant is the best help defender we've seen since Scottie Pippen then go back to the Laker board.

uberhikari · Post #14 » by **uberhikari** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:17 am

Easily Kobe and Kawhi.

A lot of what people are saying doesn't make sense to me. Peak Pippen is not even close to peak Kawhi. And offensive redundancy is irrelevant when both players have extraordinary offensive versatility. Kobe and Kawhi are 3 level scorers who can play on-ball or off-ball.

rand · Post #15 » by **rand** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:52 am

If the game was played in the current rules/ref environment, I'd take CP3+KG. The amount of space available to operate today borders absurdity. CP3 averaged 11+ apg with 4:1 assist:TO ratios on sub-90 pace teams that were routinely going up against packed paints with 6'10"+ 240lb+ PFs and full size centers. And KG against today's 4s will produce massacres. Good luck trying to guard 28 year old KG with Marcus Morris, with CP3 setting him up no less. Most 5s today couldn't handle KG's strength, much less the 4s.

In the 2000s, I'd take Kobe/Kawhi. Isolation scoring against a lockdown defender possession after halfcourt possession was such a huge part of playoff basketball then and you have two of the very greatest playoff iso scorers here.

No-more-rings · Post #16 » by **No-more-rings** » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:31 pm

Cp3 and KG seems better on paper, but i just don't know how the hell a defense would deal with a Kobe+Kawhi tandem on the perimeter. It honestly couldn't be done, CP3+KG would certainly bring amazing regular season results and be title favorites in a lot of years but i don't think they're going to scare an opposing defense the same way. That doesn't mean i wouldn't pick them, I'm actually not sure.