RealGM

Which duo would you take if all in prime? John Wall and Paul George, or Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler?

Should we assume health and that Jimmy won't punch Kyrie in the face or should we take personalities into account as well?

If you can assume both, it's Jimmy and Kyrie. Butler gives a second playmaker and they provide more efficient scoring, enough to more than offset the other pair's superior defense.

I wonder how well the best version of Wall fits in 2018-2021 versus 2014-2017.

I think Kyrie's shooting ability and ability to score and space the floor makes a big difference, and Kyrie just peaked (is peaking) as a better, more useful/portable player. And I just think Jimmy Butler's a better player than PG. He's basically a good 1st option for a bunch of teams, and he can be nearly as impactful in a any role, whether it's the hustle guy that gets you 16 a game and acts as a tertiary playmaker who plays defense, the primary ball handler who gets 22/8/8, the guy who closes the games, etc. He could run the offense and let Kyrie handle scoring, or Kyrie could run the offense and let Jimmy be a cutter at times. Both can close.

Wall is a better player than people remember. He was great in 2016-2017. PG is a top 12 or so player now, def. top 15. He can shoot, play defense, pass a bit, score, etc. But I think that, while he can peak higher than Jimmy Butler at times, it's too reliant on his jumper, and he doesn't have nearly the floor game and he isn't the same level of defender as Jimmy at this point.

So give me Jimmy x Kyrie. More dynamic, more versatile, more of an ability to play off each other. Put Kyrie on the Heat, I think they could make the finals.

I like peak PG13 more than Butler but the combo of Butler and Kyrie synergizes better imo. With adequate shooting around them, you can envision an offense resembling a poor man's version of the 2015-2017 Cavs.

Pelly24 wrote:I wonder how well the best version of Wall fits in 2018-2021 versus 2014-2017.

I think Kyrie's shooting ability and ability to score and space the floor makes a big difference, and Kyrie just peaked (is peaking) as a better, more useful/portable player. And I just think Jimmy Butler's a better player than PG. He's basically a good 1st option for a bunch of teams, and he can be nearly as impactful in a any role, whether it's the hustle guy that gets you 16 a game and acts as a tertiary playmaker who plays defense, the primary ball handler who gets 22/8/8, the guy who closes the games, etc. He could run the offense and let Kyrie handle scoring, or Kyrie could run the offense and let Jimmy be a cutter at times. Both can close.

Wall is a better player than people remember. He was great in 2016-2017. PG is a top 12 or so player now, def. top 15. He can shoot, play defense, pass a bit, score, etc. But I think that, while he can peak higher than Jimmy Butler at times, it's too reliant on his jumper, and he doesn't have nearly the floor game and he isn't the same level of defender as Jimmy at this point.

So give me Jimmy x Kyrie. More dynamic, more versatile, more of an ability to play off each other. Put Kyrie on the Heat, I think they could make the finals.

He does?

Butler's series vs the Lakers is better than anything PG has ever done in the playoffs.

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:

Pelly24 wrote:I wonder how well the best version of Wall fits in 2018-2021 versus 2014-2017.

I think Kyrie's shooting ability and ability to score and space the floor makes a big difference, and Kyrie just peaked (is peaking) as a better, more useful/portable player. And I just think Jimmy Butler's a better player than PG. He's basically a good 1st option for a bunch of teams, and he can be nearly as impactful in a any role, whether it's the hustle guy that gets you 16 a game and acts as a tertiary playmaker who plays defense, the primary ball handler who gets 22/8/8, the guy who closes the games, etc. He could run the offense and let Kyrie handle scoring, or Kyrie could run the offense and let Jimmy be a cutter at times. Both can close.

Wall is a better player than people remember. He was great in 2016-2017. PG is a top 12 or so player now, def. top 15. He can shoot, play defense, pass a bit, score, etc. But I think that, while he can peak higher than Jimmy Butler at times, it's too reliant on his jumper, and he doesn't have nearly the floor game and he isn't the same level of defender as Jimmy at this point.

So give me Jimmy x Kyrie. More dynamic, more versatile, more of an ability to play off each other. Put Kyrie on the Heat, I think they could make the finals.

He does?

Butler's series vs the Lakers is better than anything PG has ever done in the playoffs.

Yeah I thought about that, that's a good point. I think PG 2018-2019 might still be a higher regular season peak, though.

Irving was always better than Wall and Butler is better than George. Irving & Butler, no brainer.

Yeah, if you can assume health and not killing your teammate this is clearly Irving/Butler. Butler is the most impactful guy and Irving is better than Wall. I'd roll the dice on that duo without the contingencies but it'd be closer.