[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers

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[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#1 » by Odinn21 » Sun May 2, 2021 3:00 pm

Hello.

Link to the project thread.

Pick the top 5 individual single seasons in the Cavaliers franchise history.

As Cleveland Cavaliers from 1970-71 to today


Things to follow;
- This project is franchise bound, not city bound. Quick example; Philadelphia Warriors from 1949-50 to 1961-62 is part of the Golden State Warriors franchise history and 1952 Arizin is eligible for the GS Warriors history.
- We'll follow continuity of the franchise. I.e. Seattle SuperSonics and Oklahoma City Thunder are the same franchise. We'll use BBRef as reference for this.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/
- ABA seasons are included.
- 2020-21 season is yet to be completed, so, it's not eligible for this project.
- One season per player, no duplicates within the franchise history. Quick example; Shaquille O'Neal can be voted for only once for the LA Lakers franchise history, and he can be voted for the Orlando Magic franchise history. They are separate occasions.


- Reg. season and postseason play, both are included in evaluations.
- Votes will be counted per player, not per version of player.
- An easy going point system of 10/7/5/3/1, the same as Retro PoY project, will be used. Number of higher placement votes will be the tiebreaker (if two players are tied at 27 points for the 1st place, the player with more 1st place votes will get it).
- Explanation is needed, even in short forms.
- We'll be going alphabetically with franchise nicknames. Linked to the voting threads as well.
Spoiler:
Philadelphia 76ers
Milwaukee Bucks
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Atlanta Hawks
Miami Heat
Charlotte Hornets
Utah Jazz
Sacramento Kings
New York Knicks
Los Angeles Lakers
Orlando Magic
Dallas Mavericks
Brooklyn Nets
Denver Nuggets
Indiana Pacers
New Orleans Pelicans
Detroit Pistons
Toronto Raptors
Houston Rockets
San Antonio Spurs
Phoenix Suns
Minnesota Timberwolves
Oklahoma City Thunder
Portland Trail Blazers
Golden State Warriors
Washington Wizards


Results on Google Sheet

- The time frame for each franchise is 2 days (10:00 EST).

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The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#2 » by Odinn21 » Sun May 2, 2021 3:20 pm

1. 2016 LeBron James
Obvious choice. The only discussion is about the version.

2. 1992 Mark Price
I always had Price as a budget Nash. Shooting, passing, playmaking to a lesser degree. Though slightly better defender. I think Price is a rather clear #2 here despite Irving also being pretty good.

3. 1989 Larry Nance Sr.
4. 1996 Terrell Brandon
I initially had Daugherty at #5 spot but changed my vote for Brandon because even available impact metrics love him, and he looks as the better and the more impactful player to me right now. I might even entertain the idea of Brandon's case vs. Nance. Though there's a significant gap on defense.

5. 2017 Kyrie Irving
His best season in Cleveland. It was a complete season from him.
Edit; I had Irving ahead of Brandon basically. Then after discussing about him and Brandon, and me being certain about Nance over Brandon left Irving at 5th.

I had this before changing my vote from Daugherty to Nance.
Also, it's interesting to think about 1996 Terrell Brandon. He's tied with Daugherty for the highest WS season (12.7) in Cleveland by a player not named LeBron James, and Brandon did that on a 49 xW team (58 xW for Daugherty's 12.7 WS season).
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#3 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun May 2, 2021 3:35 pm

1) 2018 Lebron James - I was going to go with 2017 because the scoring is better, but thinking about it some of his efficiency going down could just be because his team was a lot worse than in 2017. I thought his playmaking and the way he read defenses seemed better this year. 2009 Lebron's defense is worth considering here as well.

2) 1992 Mark Price - A beast of an offensive player. Most of the other guys are PGs who weren't as good of shooters or passers or guys who are more well rounded but not specialzied enough for me to value them more.

3) 1989 Larry Nance - Great all around player. Good complimentary scorer. I value him over guys like Daugherty, World B Free and Irving because of the defense he'll bring.

4)1992 Brad Daugherty - This is really hard between him and Irving. Now, Irving has a more high profile career because he got a ring and had heck of a finals series. But when you look at their post season numbers, Brad seems like a better scorer and probably a better passer for that matter. Brad is very Pau Gasol-esque in that he has a lot of go to moves and great hands. Like Pau during the Memphis days he struggled a lot on defense, he was almost certainly worse than Pau there. Brad has been deep in the playoffs though and his numbers hold up (Irving by comparison is consistently a 57TS% shooter - and they both have a lot of offensive help, though no one who can command a double like James on Brad's stacked teams). The real question is Brad giving up too much on defense, where as Kyrie who is just a point guard it's not as big of a crack in the armor? As for the other bigs in question - Big Z and Love; Z isn't special enough on offense and hes not exactly a DPOY guy. Love seems like a worse version of Brad on both sides of the ball, most of Love's post season scoring is bad and he's a worse defender from what I've seen.

5) 2017 Kyrie Irving - More evidence of what he can do in a post season setting than World B Free. Also, clearly the more effective player when he was paired with Love.




My real questions are - which year to go with James and whether Brad is better than Irving.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#4 » by Dutchball97 » Sun May 2, 2021 4:03 pm

1. LeBron James, 2015/16 - Yeah this is very difficult between 09, 16 and 18 imo but I'm going with the most succesful run of the three here.

2. Larry Nance, 1988/89 - It was tough to seperate Nance, Price and Daugherty. Nance is at a bit of a disadvantage as his best season with Cleveland came in a year where they lost in the first round instead of the 92 season where they made the ECF. That first round match up in 89 was a 2-3 loss to MJ's Bulls in which Nance performed really well on both ends of the floor. In general I think his defense is what puts him ahead of Price and Daugherty for me.

3. Brad Daugherty, 1991/92 - Now this will probably be a bit of a surprise but he just edges out Price in the 92 season based on my criteria. On a per minute basis I don't think their impact was all that different from each other, maybe a slight advantage for Price. What makes me go Daugherty over Price is mainly minutes played. Daugherty played 36.2 mpg in the regular season and 40.4 mpg in the play-offs compared to 29.7 mpg in the regular season and 35.5 mpg in the play-offs for Price.

4. Mark Price, 1991/92 - Even with Daugherty leading the team in ppg in the 91/92 season, Price was still the heart of the offense. The argument that a bad defender at PG hurts considerably less than a mediocre defender at center is also a legit point. I could be convinced to bump Price up but playing a relatively low amount of minutes and not clearly being more effective on a per minute basis than 2 of your teammates is a difficult sell for me.

5. Kyrie Irving, 2014/15 - Missed too much time in 2016 to be considered, which is a shame because those play-offs would've shot him up to 2nd or 3rd. I guess going with 2017 makes sense but both his regular season and post-season were better in 2015 imo. I did consider Terrell Brandon but he didn't have much of a post-season in his best year, which considerably hurt his case.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#5 » by Dr Positivity » Sun May 2, 2021 5:12 pm

1. Lebron 2016 - I prefer 2nd run Lebron and he clearly came through in playoffs here

2. Mark Price 1992 - I like his game as a Nash lite. He makes first team in 93 but isn't as goo din the playoffs. 1992 he plays pretty well through 3 rounds.

3. Larry Nance 1992 - Good defender and solid enough 17ppg+ offensive game with floor spacing.

4. Kyrie Irving 2017 - Not a big fan but pretty impressive scoring talent that played on a champion level team

5. Brad Daugherty 1992 - Good offensive big, I guess I'll go with him over the low key great Terrell Brandon peak.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#6 » by Jaivl » Sun May 2, 2021 5:29 pm

Wait, are the Bulls already over? Ughhhh nooooooo.

Voting on this one tomorrow I think.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#7 » by Odinn21 » Sun May 2, 2021 5:37 pm

Jaivl wrote:Wait, are the Bulls already over? Ughhhh nooooooo.

Voting on this one tomorrow I think.

It's 2 days voting window for each franchise. I believe the Bulls got slipped through the cracks because it was basically just weekend.
It won't be counted but you may still post your choices for the Bulls by the way, always good to see different people's opinions.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#8 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun May 2, 2021 5:58 pm

1. 2009 LeBron. Likely between the 09 and 16-18 versions. Going with 09 because he was such a physical force and upped his game in the playoffs as well
2. 1989 Price. Went with this season because it was his most efficient and he was still playing a lot of minutes
3. 1992 Daugherty. I go with Daugherty because he was really the hub of the Cavs offense by 91 and I'd say decent defensively. He was really big and he got himself into better physical shape in the 90-92 period which increased his mobility.
4. 1992 Nance. coinflip to me with Kyrie
5. 2017 Kyrie

hm 1996 Brandon
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#9 » by homecourtloss » Sun May 2, 2021 6:17 pm

1. James, 2016; does any player in NBA history have a span of viably debatable peaks as long as James does? 2009 to 2018 already posted a in this thread. Impact stats and incredible motor and GOAT box score playoffs make me want to say 2009. Better basketball game management and the incredible defense of 2016 make me want to say that year. Even better offensive mastery of 2017 with absolutely wild On-off difference between him (+30.7) and the next best player (TT, +6.6) make me want to say that year. Scoring performance for the ages as a one man show in 2018 make me want to say that year knowing what kind of season they could have had if he had competent teammates.

2. Price, 1992; what he was able to do with the physical limitations he had height/athleticism was incredible. We take from granted the number of players today who can shoot threes off the dribble (i.e., seemingly everyone), but in the early 1990s, it was rare to see someone who had that accuracy off the dribble and he did. He’d be exploited more defensively today, but he’d also get more chances to shoot. He was a large part of why the 1992 Cavs were competitive with the Bulls.

3. Nance, 1989; better in the 1992 regular season, but was all over the court more explosive and defensively disruptive in 1989, especially the playoffs. Played a great game 4 in that series.

4. Daugherty, 1992; strong offensively, could score on he block, little jumpers, decent passer, didn’t turn the ball over. 1993 regular season was just as strong though worse in the playoffs. Had he been a better defensive player, who knows what those Cavs could have done.

5. Irving, 2017; I thought his overall game was at its best in 2015 when the Cavs got him to play defense. After their mid-season trades, Cavs went 33-3 when James, Love, and Irving played, and were blowing teams out left and right, in part because Irving was trying defensively. On the other hand, his offensive savant like skills were even better in 2017 that helped create that offense of the 2017 playoffs.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#10 » by Doctor MJ » Sun May 2, 2021 7:32 pm

1. 2016-17 LeBron James - I'll lead with a quote here from the movie "The Hustler" (1961):

Bert Gordon : I don't think there's a pool player alive shoots better pool than I saw you shoot the other night at Ames. You got talent.

Fast Eddie : So I got talent. So what beat me?

Bert Gordon : Character.


Fast Eddie is a young pool player who just got beat because his nerves got gradually unraveled against the undauntable veteran Minnesota Fats.

Later in the movie, after some tragedy, Fast Eddie comes back and beats Minnesota Fats with ease. He can no longer be rattled. He's lived enough, and dealt with enough s**t, that he can just play his game.

To me that's the difference between younger LeBron and older LeBron. The character of a veteran.

2. 1991-92 Mark Price - was really quite ahead of his time.

3. 1988-89 Larry Nance - and so Larry Nance Jr.'s dad.

4. 2016-17 Kyrie Irving - hard to know where to peg him, but those Cavs at their best were insanely effective on offense.

5. 1991-92 Brad Daugherty - another outstanding player from the Cavs of that era.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#11 » by Colbinii » Sun May 2, 2021 8:56 pm

1. 2017 LeBron James

One of the GOAT peaks

2. 1992 Mark Price

Fantastic two-way player who led some fantastic teams.

3. 2017 Kyrie Irving

I have him ahead of Nance because Irving was in his perfect role in 2017 and it allowed him to really maximize his impact as the (limited) player he is.

4. 1989 Larry Nance

Athletic two-way player who dominated on both ends. Underappreciated during his time as a player.

5. 1996 Terrell Brandon

Underrated year. Brandon was one of the most talented players of his size in NBA History.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#12 » by lebron3-14-3 » Sun May 2, 2021 10:28 pm

Guys, it's 2009 Lebron, not other versions. I revisited that season and he was really an incredible defender, easily better than the 2013 season (the other 2nd place in dpoy season or any heat version defensively), and he was a monster offensively too, especially in transition and at getting to the rim, but also overall he was a decent shooter who could hit any kind of shot. 2017 and 2018 have a case for being superior offensively, but the defensive gap is immeasurable. 2016 he was still an elite defender but still a pretty big gap and was also worse offensively (that year he really couldn't hit a jumper, and he obviously wasn't the god level athlete he was in 2009).
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#13 » by Odinn21 » Mon May 3, 2021 11:49 am

LA Bird wrote:Will edit this post into my vote once I have a closer look but I am pretty surprised there is no mention of Ron Harper at all.

I believe this was intended for the Cavaliers thread, and not the Bulls thread?

---

By the way, I might change my #5 vote to Brandon because he looks like he was quite impactful in RAPM numbers. RAPM numbers usually have the players from the most winning teams at the top.

This is how 1992 Cavaliers look like;
Price in the top 2%
Nance in the top 3%
Daugherty in the top 4%

This is how 1996 Cavaliers look like;
Brandon in the top 5%
Cage in the top 8%
Majerle in the top 15%

Considering RAPM structure not being free from team +/- numbers, Brandon looks more impactful than Daugherty to me.
As far as box metrics go, Brandon is slightly better than Daugherty and Daugherty is not a C with proper defensive impact that would be underrated in box metrics.

I started by saying might but I'm changing my vote from Daugherty to Brandon.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#14 » by LA Bird » Mon May 3, 2021 12:21 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
LA Bird wrote:Will edit this post into my vote once I have a closer look but I am pretty surprised there is no mention of Ron Harper at all.

I believe this was intended for the Cavaliers thread, and not the Bulls thread?

---

By the way, I might change my #5 vote to Brandon because he looks like he was quite impactful in RAPM numbers. RAPM numbers usually have the players from the most winning teams at the top.

This is how 1992 Cavaliers look like;
Price in the top 2%
Nance in the top 3%
Daugherty in the top 4%

This is how 1996 Cavaliers look like;
Brandon in the top 5%
Cage in the top 8%
Majerle in the top 15%

Considering RAPM structure not being free from team +/- numbers, Brandon looks more impactful than Daugherty to me.
As far as box metrics go, Brandon is slightly better than Daugherty and Daugherty is not a C with proper defensive impact that would be underrated in box metrics.

I started by saying might but I'm changing my vote from Daugherty to Brandon.

Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#15 » by Odinn21 » Mon May 3, 2021 12:30 pm

LA Bird wrote:Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?

http://web.archive.org/web/20150408042813/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com:80/
I believe this was Engelmann's work before he deleted his website.

TBH, Irving is that high on my list because I feel like I know more about him properly. You can call it recency bias or short time memory if you'd like. Though 2017 Irving was in the top 5% too, he was outperformed by only James in impact metrics. And in terms of regular season numbers, 2017 Cavs (2.9 srs, 3.3 nrtg) and 1996 Cavs (2.5 srs, 3.1 nrtg) were not so different from each other in terms of team +/- unlike 1996 Cavs against 1992 Cavs (5.3 srs, 5.7 nrtg).
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#16 » by Owly » Mon May 3, 2021 1:38 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
LA Bird wrote:Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?

http://web.archive.org/web/20150408042813/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com:80/
I believe this was Engelmann's work before he deleted his website.

TBH, Irving is that high on my list because I feel like I know more about him properly. You can call it recency bias or short time memory if you'd like. Though 2017 Irving was in the top 5% too, he was outperformed by only James in impact metrics. And in terms of regular season numbers, 2017 Cavs (2.9 srs, 3.3 nrtg) and 1996 Cavs (2.5 srs, 3.1 nrtg) were not so different from each other in terms of team +/- unlike 1996 Cavs against 1992 Cavs (5.3 srs, 5.7 nrtg).

RE: RAPM it is JE's. It's not really RAPM. At least if I've understood and remembered correctly.

It's xRAPM i.e. his box-regression estimate of RAPM. As is each season up to circa 2000 (otoh). This was not made clear on the site.

My understanding is we don't have league wide impact measures until '94 (based on Harvey Pollack's raw +/- figures, shared here by fpliii both sources giving us 76ers data further back) and then until '97 for play-by-play full impact.

I've seen in the STATs Inc books and the talk and implication of Pollack and the 76ers books that Pollack's stats team was doing play-by-play pretty much league wide (so he could be a source for things like dunks leaders in '92 and '93). But I think per a thread on here a lot of his work got lost/chucked by the 76ers after he retired (less certain on this).

But anyway others could correct me but I don't believe those are impact stats, but rather box composites/estimates.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#17 » by LA Bird » Mon May 3, 2021 2:11 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
LA Bird wrote:Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?

http://web.archive.org/web/20150408042813/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com:80/
I believe this was Engelmann's work before he deleted his website.

xRAPM is not actually RAPM. It is a BPM type box score stat which is why it goes back before the NBA started recording play by play and +/- data in 1997. Some people call box score prior informed RAPM such as RPM xRAPM but that is a totally different stat. Engelmann himself has said he doesn't have pbp data before 2001 so it is not possible for him to calculate 90s RAPM.

TBH, Irving is that high on my list because I feel like I know more about him properly. You can call it recency bias or short time memory if you'd like. Though 2017 Irving was in the top 5% too, he was outperformed by only James in impact metrics. And in terms of regular season numbers, 2017 Cavs (2.9 srs, 3.3 nrtg) and 1996 Cavs (2.5 srs, 3.1 nrtg) were not so different from each other in terms of team +/- unlike 1996 Cavs against 1992 Cavs (5.3 srs, 5.7 nrtg).

Love was rated higher than Kyrie in JE's 2017 RAPM:

Read on Twitter


And if the two teams have comparable SRS and net rating, wouldn't the tiebreaker go to Brandon who was the clear cut best player on his team rather than Kyrie who was playing next to LeBron and Love?
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#18 » by Dutchball97 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:38 pm

LA Bird wrote:
Odinn21 wrote:
LA Bird wrote:Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?

http://web.archive.org/web/20150408042813/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com:80/
I believe this was Engelmann's work before he deleted his website.

xRAPM is not actually RAPM. It is a BPM type box score stat which is why it goes back before the NBA started recording play by play and +/- data in 1997. Some people call box score prior informed RAPM such as RPM xRAPM but that is a totally different stat. Engelmann himself has said he doesn't have pbp data before 2001 so it is not possible for him to calculate 90s RAPM.

TBH, Irving is that high on my list because I feel like I know more about him properly. You can call it recency bias or short time memory if you'd like. Though 2017 Irving was in the top 5% too, he was outperformed by only James in impact metrics. And in terms of regular season numbers, 2017 Cavs (2.9 srs, 3.3 nrtg) and 1996 Cavs (2.5 srs, 3.1 nrtg) were not so different from each other in terms of team +/- unlike 1996 Cavs against 1992 Cavs (5.3 srs, 5.7 nrtg).

Love was rated higher than Kyrie in JE's 2017 RAPM:

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And if the two teams have comparable SRS and net rating, wouldn't the tiebreaker go to Brandon who was the clear cut best player on his team rather than Kyrie who was playing next to LeBron and Love?


That's a fair argument but the play-offs also matter for these rankings and especially when two players are seemingly comparable like Brandon and Irving the play-offs should hold some weight. Terrell Brandon only played 3 play-off games in 96 and his .080 WS/48 suggests a lackluster campaign. I think Kyrie played better in 15, 16 and 17 than Terrell Brandon did in 96, while playing a lot more games (13, 21 and 18 respectively). Brandon losing to the Knicks in the first round itself shouldn't put him behind Kyrie but when he didn't even seem to play well it's hard for me to see the argument for Brandon over Irving.
Odinn21
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#19 » by Odinn21 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:46 pm

LA Bird wrote:
Odinn21 wrote:
LA Bird wrote:Yeah, my bad. Ron Harper is for the Cavs not Bulls.

Where are you getting 1992 RAPM numbers? And if you are looking at the impact metrics, why not Brandon over Kyrie?

http://web.archive.org/web/20150408042813/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com:80/
I believe this was Engelmann's work before he deleted his website.

xRAPM is not actually RAPM. It is a BPM type box score stat which is why it goes back before the NBA started recording play by play and +/- data in 1997. Some people call box score prior informed RAPM such as RPM xRAPM but that is a totally different stat. Engelmann himself has said he doesn't have pbp data before 2001 so it is not possible for him to calculate 90s RAPM.

Thanks for the info.

Love was rated higher than Kyrie in JE's 2017 RAPM:

I usually check nbashotcharts.com for RAPM in the 2010s and onwards. And usually talk about LA-RAPM on there. Though the non-LA version has Love over Irving. Considering non-LA version on there, JE and PIPM, all have Love over Irving, maybe I should peg Irving down a little bit.

And if the two teams have comparable SRS and net rating, wouldn't the tiebreaker go to Brandon who was the clear cut best player on his team rather than Kyrie who was playing next to LeBron and Love?

That's one of the interpretations. My main focus was on starting points being on the same level, and making it a fairer comparison.

Maybe I should put both of Nance and Brandon over Irving after this scrutiny session. Because even though we're talking about Brandon vs. Irving, Nance being ahead of Brandon is one of the things I'm most confident in here.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Cavaliers 

Post#20 » by drza » Mon May 3, 2021 5:15 pm

Haven't had time to participate in this project, unfortunately. You're starting off with some of my historically favorite players' teams, and I missed out. There's a solid chance I'll have more time once the regular season is over, but by then I'll have already missed out on Dr. J and now, Ron Harper. I don't know if Harper has an analytics case to be made vs the competition, but I'll say that as a kid growing up in Ohio that LOVED those late 80s/early 90s Cavs, to the point that I'd listen to them on the radio on their station 1100, WWWE (which BARELY made it to my hometown, but the signal got stronger at night)...Ron Harper was the electric engine on that team.

Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Price, or even Daugherty or Nance had a numeric argument over Harper. But Harper was the one, not draftmates Price or Daugherty, that was almost Rookie of the Year (I still think he should've beaten Chuck Person). Harper was the one, when all were healthy, that could be the best scorer and often the best defender on the court. Harper was the player on that team that made us believe we could compete with Jordan and the Bulls.

Shrugs. Just looked, and I hadn't realized Harper only played 3.5 seasons with the Cavs before getting traded to the Clippers. At the time, seemed longer. For my money, he was that dude in Cleveland
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