what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places

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what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#1 » by falcolombardi » Mon May 3, 2021 6:48 pm

if hakeem/jordan/barkley/stockton. switched places with lebron/carmelo/wade/bosh how do you think their careers go?

in this scenario 18 years old lebron james is drafted by houston in 1984 amd plays out his career there like hakeem did, same main teammates and everythingh (sampson, drexler, cassel, horry, etc)

carmelo is picked in 84 and plays his career in the bulls in jordan place, same rules, plays with pippen and grant, retires to play baseball and comes back

chris bosh takes barkley place in philly, and also leaves for suns and rockets

wade takes stockton place and plays with karl malone in utah his whole careet

everythingh else stays the same teams wise

how does the nba play out? which teams win each ring now?

also same question if you wish in the inverse scenario

hakeem in the cavs, then miami (with stockton and barkley), then cavs again then lakers same

jordan in the nuggets then leaves for the knicks and...oklahoma and portland? cut from houston too (!)(disciplinary issue? only way this hipotgetical cut works)

barkley with toronto then miami

stockton with the heat for most of his career playing with shaq then with hakeem and barkley

how would the championships go with these changes assuming they all kept similar playstyles as they did in real life (maybe the 84 guys develop more 3 point game and other adpatations)
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#2 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon May 3, 2021 10:49 pm

Lebron would still be playing today.
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#3 » by penbeast0 » Mon May 3, 2021 11:02 pm

Houston would be improved and Sampson's rep would be better as he would get credit as an outstanding 2nd banana big man on a title contender as long as he was healthy.

Bosh isn't nearly as good as Barkley offensively though his defense is better. He does worse in Philly, but gets closer in Phoenix where they have a lot of offensive weapons.

Carmelo goes to that problematic Chicago team that "The Last Dance" called cocaine cowboys. IF he can resist that temptation and doesn't go the way of so many players, Chicago features him like Jordan but with worse defense, then Phil Jackson has to convince him to play the Triangle which I'm not sure he has the basketball IQ to be as effective in as Jordan either. They are contenders but don't win any titles, Cleveland, Seattle, Utah, etc. share the wealth.

Wade in a Jerry Sloan offense would be interesting. Sloan's teams needed a distributing PG and presumably they play Wade in that role (more like Deron Williams than Stockton). Again, I don't see the fit as nearly as good as the Stockton/Malone pairing (what fit was?) and Wade's injury issues are more of a problem as those Utah squads were frequently thin on the bench.
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#4 » by penbeast0 » Mon May 3, 2021 11:12 pm

Going the other way, Hakeem whined a lot in Houston, he would be worse in Cleveland (because, well, it's Cleveland). The superfriends thing would still work and get at least 1 title with Bosh or Barkley (are we assuming all these changes). The current Lakers would not work nearly as well with AD and Hakeem and a bunch of meh wings and guards but they still might contend as Hakeem was a smart player who got better as he aged.

Barkley in Toronto would be, well, weird. Mr. Rude in the Land of Politeness. He wouldn't win there but would be excellent with the superfriends and the injury that he suffers (instead of Bosh) would allow him to take his clown act to commentary earlier in his career where we all love him.

Jordan in Denver might be bad. He always had issues with the way he treated his teammates and called them out in public, winning excused everything. But, there just isn't enough talent to win titles in Denver or New York (and yes, I could see him whining his way to the Knicks like Carmelo did) and so his flaws would be more exposed. Still a great talent but a much more controversial one without Phil Jackson to temper his hero ball instincts and the rings to protect his rep.

Stockton wouldn't be able to carry the weaker Miami teams but might be a better fit with Shaq, though Shaq, not Stockton, would get the greater credit when they win a title. Better fit with the superfriends than Wade and more valuable to it, though dropping in talent from LeBron to Hakeem means the results would probably be similar. Might have a stronger ATG case with 3 or so titles under his belt even if (like in Utah) as a 2nd and 3rd option.
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#5 » by falcolombardi » Tue May 4, 2021 12:15 am

penbeast0 wrote:Going the other way, Hakeem whined a lot in Houston, he would be worse in Cleveland (because, well, it's Cleveland). The superfriends thing would still work and get at least 1 title with Bosh or Barkley (are we assuming all these changes). The current Lakers would not work nearly as well with AD and Hakeem and a bunch of meh wings and guards but they still might contend as Hakeem was a smart player who got better as he aged.

Barkley in Toronto would be, well, weird. Mr. Rude in the Land of Politeness. He wouldn't win there but would be excellent with the superfriends and the injury that he suffers (instead of Bosh) would allow him to take his clown act to commentary earlier in his career where we all love him.

Jordan in Denver might be bad. He always had issues with the way he treated his teammates and called them out in public, winning excused everything. But, there just isn't enough talent to win titles in Denver or New York (and yes, I could see him whining his way to the Knicks like Carmelo did) and so his flaws would be more exposed. Still a great talent but a much more controversial one without Phil Jackson to temper his hero ball instincts and the rings to protect his rep.

Stockton wouldn't be able to carry the weaker Miami teams but might be a better fit with Shaq, though Shaq, not Stockton, would get the greater credit when they win a title. Better fit with the superfriends than Wade and more valuable to it, though dropping in talent from LeBron to Hakeem means the results would probably be similar. Might have a stronger ATG case with 3 or so titles under his belt even if (like in Utah) as a 2nd and 3rd option.


to make it clearer imagine it as jordan taking melo place in every season he played, 90' jordan in the 2009 nuggets for example

2009 lebron in 1990 rockets, 2009 wade in 1990 rockets etc
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#6 » by penbeast0 » Tue May 4, 2021 3:40 am

falcolombardi wrote:
to make it clearer imagine it as jordan taking melo place in every season he played, 90' jordan in the 2009 nuggets for example

2009 lebron in 1990 rockets, 2009 wade in 1990 rockets etc


We are using Jordan forcing his way to NY and Melo taking 2 years off during his late prime though, correct?

Or do you feel Jordan can take the 2009 Nuggets to the title? That was the closest they ever came and with 4 starters (including Billups) who can play off ball if Jordan is still playing "there's no i in team, but there is in win." That and J.R. to come off the bench for offensive spark when Jordan sits.

I just don't think, great as he was, that Jordan makes it without Phil Jackson talking him into playing more of a team game and George Karl, while a good coach, wasn't Phil Jackson.
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#7 » by falcolombardi » Tue May 4, 2021 5:05 am

penbeast0 wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
to make it clearer imagine it as jordan taking melo place in every season he played, 90' jordan in the 2009 nuggets for example

2009 lebron in 1990 rockets, 2009 wade in 1990 rockets etc


We are using Jordan forcing his way to NY and Melo taking 2 years off during his late prime though, correct?

Or do you feel Jordan can take the 2009 Nuggets to the title? That was the closest they ever came and with 4 starters (including Billups) who can play off ball if Jordan is still playing "there's no i in team, but there is in win." That and J.R. to come off the bench for offensive spark when Jordan sits.

I just don't think, great as he was, that Jordan makes it without Phil Jackson talking him into playing more of a team game and George Karl, while a good coach, wasn't Phil Jackson.


2009 is a great year for the title yes, that denver team likely was the fourth best team in 2009 (5th if boston was heslthy). sansterre post about it talks how they played close a great lakers team

and jordan is a big improvement on carmelo

is also crazy that i cannot see jordan winning any other year except a long shot with 2010 nuggets or 2013 knicks (which technically would be his retirememt 1994 year) shows how nobody wins without good teams
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#8 » by OdomFan » Wed May 5, 2021 12:01 am

falcolombardi wrote:if hakeem/jordan/barkley/stockton. switched places with lebron/carmelo/wade/bosh how do you think their careers go?

in this scenario 18 years old lebron james is drafted by houston in 1984 amd plays out his career there like hakeem did, same main teammates and everythingh (sampson, drexler, cassel, horry, etc)

carmelo is picked in 84 and plays his career in the bulls in jordan place, same rules, plays with pippen and grant, retires to play baseball and comes back

chris bosh takes barkley place in philly, and also leaves for suns and rockets

wade takes stockton place and plays with karl malone in utah his whole careet

everythingh else stays the same teams wise

how does the nba play out? which teams win each ring now?

also same question if you wish in the inverse scenario

hakeem in the cavs, then miami (with stockton and barkley), then cavs again then lakers same

jordan in the nuggets then leaves for the knicks and...oklahoma and portland? cut from houston too (!)(disciplinary issue? only way this hipotgetical cut works)

barkley with toronto then miami

stockton with the heat for most of his career playing with shaq then with hakeem and barkley

how would the championships go with these changes assuming they all kept similar playstyles as they did in real life (maybe the 84 guys develop more 3 point game and other adpatations)

Does Melo even like baseball? Jordan actually played it when he was younger but I don't know anything about Melo doing it so not sure why you have him retiring to do exactly what MJ did.

Also it's silly to have Bosh and anyone else make the exact same team changes as people from the other draft class. These guys are their own person who would make different career choices.
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#9 » by OdomFan » Wed May 5, 2021 12:41 am

The way I see it going down

2003
1. Cavs select Hakeem Olajuwon.
2. Pistons select Charles Barkley
3. Nuggets select Michael Jordan
4. Raptors select Alvin Robertson
5. Heat select Sam Bowie
6. Clippers select Otis Thorpe
7. Bulls select John Stockton
8. Bucks select Leon Wood
9. Knicks select Kevin Willis
10. Wizards select Melvin Turpin

1984
1. Rockets select Chris Kamon
2. Trailblazers select Carmelo Anthony
3. Bulls select Dwayne Wade
4. Mavs select Lebron James
5. 76ers select Chris Bosh
6. Bullets select David West
7. Spurs select Kirk Hinrich
8. Clippers select TJ Ford
9. Kings select Nick Collison
10. 76ers select Mo Williams
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#10 » by penbeast0 » Wed May 5, 2021 1:14 am

I thought we were keeping the draft order (Bowie and all).
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Re: what if 2003 and 1984 draft stars switched places 

Post#11 » by penbeast0 » Wed May 5, 2021 1:22 am

OdomFan wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:....
Maybe he gets a contract with La La to be in a daytime soap and retires for two years, but he's trying to keep the career arcs. Could take the career arc with you and have Jordan retire in the 2000s but that wasn't the scenario.

Having open choices gets really complicated and you lose the consistency in the responses.
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