[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises: The Clippers

[Odinn21]

Hello.

Link to the project thread.

Pick the top 5 individual single seasons in the Clippers franchise history.

As Los Angeles Clippers from 1984-85 to today
As San Diego Clippers from 1978-79 to 1983-84
As Buffalo Braves from 1970-71 to 1977-78

Things to follow;
- This project is franchise bound, not city bound. Quick example; Philadelphia Warriors from 1949-50 to 1961-62 is part of the Golden State Warriors franchise history and 1952 Arizin is eligible for the GS Warriors history.
- We'll follow continuity of the franchise. I.e. Seattle SuperSonics and Oklahoma City Thunder are the same franchise. We'll use BBRef as reference for this.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/
- ABA seasons are included.
- 2020-21 season is yet to be completed, so, it's not eligible for this project.
- One season per player, no duplicates within the franchise history. Quick example; Shaquille O'Neal can be voted for only once for the LA Lakers franchise history, and he can be voted for the Orlando Magic franchise history. They are separate occasions.

- Reg. season and postseason play, both are included in evaluations.
- Votes will be counted per player, not per version of player.
- An easy going point system of 10/7/5/3/1, the same as Retro PoY project, will be used. Number of higher placement votes will be the tiebreaker (if two players are tied at 27 points for the 1st place, the player with more 1st place votes will get it).
- Explanation is needed, even in short forms.
- We'll be going alphabetically with franchise nicknames. Linked to the voting threads as well.

Spoiler:

Philadelphia 76ers
Milwaukee Bucks
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Atlanta Hawks
Miami Heat
Charlotte Hornets
Utah Jazz
Sacramento Kings
New York Knicks
Los Angeles Lakers
Orlando Magic
Dallas Mavericks
Brooklyn Nets
Denver Nuggets
Indiana Pacers
New Orleans Pelicans
Detroit Pistons
Toronto Raptors
Houston Rockets
San Antonio Spurs
Phoenix Suns
Oklahoma City Thunder
Minnesota Timberwolves
Portland Trail Blazers
Golden State Warriors
Washington Wizards

Results on Google Sheet

- The time frame for each franchise is 2 days (10:00 EST).

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[Dutchball97]

1. Chris Paul, 2014/15 - It was pretty straight forward which players stand out for the Clippers but the order is pretty difficult as the gaps between players aren't that big imo. I ended up with CP3 at #1 because I think he had a more complete season than either McAdoo or Kawhi.

2. Bob McAdoo, 1974/75 - I originally had Kawhi here but McAdoo's regular season is hard to ignore here. I think Kawhi had a better post-season but it's much closer upon closer look. McAdoo lost in the first round but he was the clear best player in a 7 game loss to the more talented Bullets.

3. Kawhi Leonard, 2019/20 - Kawhi is likely to be the most polarizing guy for the Clippers. He has an argument for #1 but with the unceremonious ending to the post-season and his load management I can see people moving him down as well. I don't think his season was as special as 15 Paul or 75 McAdoo but the level he played at is still comfortably above Brand and Griffin imo.

4. Elton Brand, 2005/06 - Bit of an outlier season of course but we can't deny how good he was here. This season really doesn't lag far behind the three guys above.

5. Blake Griffin, 2014/15 - Not his best regular season but definitely his strongest post-season. I don't see many other options here tbh. Paul George would've been an option if not for his mediocre play-offs performance. DeAndre Jordan never was as good as Blake. Marques Johnson didn't really have that good of a season with the Clippers and missed the play-offs.

EDIT: I'd prefer to stick with the 2-day window as I tend to check the site at least once day.

[Odinn21]

Another close race at the top.

1. 1975 Bob McAdoo
Scoring title with 34.5 ppg on +6.7 rts. At the volume he was scoring, that +6.7 relative ts% translated into +3.4 pts per 36, +4.1 pts per game. That is a massive difference. He had a monster season, then followed up that season with a pretty strong showing against one of the best frontcourts ever; 37.4 ppg on +4.5 rts. Forced a game 7 against a far superior team, too. His motor and consistency were also quite insane in that season.

2. 2015 Chris Paul
Well, Chris Paul is the best player of the franchise after they moved to LA*. And I feel bad about not having such a great player at #1. But McAdoo's motor and total performance combination feels too strong for Paul's slightly better impact and per possession superiority.

3. 2006 Elton Brand
One of the most underrated seasons ever. Great regular season performance, impact numbers regard him highly even though not among the highest. Even better performance in playoffs. Especially against the Suns. He was the best player in that series over Nash having one of his peak seasons.

4. 2020 Kawhi Leonard
*: One could argue that it's Leonard and not Paul but with how the season went down, it's a tough sell for me.
Leonard's simply too good for anyone else left on the board.

5. 2014 Blake Griffin
This was between him and World B. Free. I just feel more confident about my opinion on Griffin, and one of the biggest things about his game was his defensive inconsistencies but he did not have that in this particular season.

HM; 1979 World B. Free

---

Could we extend the deadline on these threads a little bit? I really wanted to vote here this morning but then I saw the deadline passed.

I'm just following the usual 2 day voting window. With 3 days, I'm afraid overall participation and interest would fade away quicker. With that I'm a bit reluctant to switch to 3 day window. Though if that's what people would like in general, we definitely can.

I'd like to see preferences of the participants about if we should stick with 2 day voting window or switch to 3 day voting window. Please add your preference to your posts. Thanks a lot.

[falcolombardi]

Another close race at the top.

1. 1975 Bob McAdoo
Scoring title with 34.5 ppg on +6.7 rts. At the volume he was scoring, that +6.7 relative ts% translated into +3.4 pts per 36, +4.1 pts per game. That is a massive difference. He had a monster season, then followed up that season with a pretty strong showing against one of the best frontcourts ever; 37.4 ppg on +4.5 rts. Forced a game 7 against a far superior team, too. His motor and consistency were also quite insane in that season.

2. 2015 Chris Paul
Well, Chris Paul is the best player of the franchise after they moved to LA*. And I feel bad about not having such a great player at #1. But McAdoo's motor and total performance combination feels too strong for Paul's slightly better impact and per possession superiority.

3. 2006 Elton Brand
One of the most underrated seasons ever. Great regular season performance, impact numbers regard him highly even though not among the highest. Even better performance in playoffs. Especially against the Suns. He was the best player in that series over Nash having one of his peak seasons.

4. 2020 Kawhi Leonard
*: One could argue that it's Leonard and not Paul but with how the season went down, it's a tough sell for me.
Leonard's simply too good for anyone else left on the board.

5. 2014 Blake Griffin
This was between him and World B. Free. I just feel more confident about my opinion on Griffin, and one of the biggest things about his game was his defensive inconsistencies but he did not have that in this particular season.

HM; 1979 World B. Free

---

Could we extend the deadline on these threads a little bit? I really wanted to vote here this morning but then I saw the deadline passed.

I'm just following the usual 2 day voting window. With 3 days, I'm afraid overall participation and interest would fade away quicker. With that I'm a bit reluctant to switch to 3 day window. Though if that's what people would like in general, we definitely can.

I'd like to see preferences of the participants about if we should stick with 2 day voting window or switch to 3 day voting window. Please add your preference to your posts. Thanks a lot.

what about 3 day windows but the new team starts in day 3 of the previous team?

that way there would still be a 1 day longer vote window
for late votes and a new thread every third day to keep interest up

[Colbinii]

1. 2015 Chris Paul

Arguably the best peak of a Point Guard in NBA history, I put it right up there with 2016/2017 Curry and 1990 Magic Johnson.

2. 2006 Elton Brand

Just a monster, two-way season. Much better defender than Mcadoo and a similar level offensive talent. A fantastic season through the playoffs and should have upset a great Steve Nash led Suns team.

3. 1975 Bob McAdoo

Similar level as player as Brand but not quite the same defender and not as resilient in the post-season.

4. 2020 Kawhi Leonard

I'm honestly not a person who is a big fan of Kawhi and love what he was able to do back in 2015 and 2016 as a two-way superstar but he was ultra impressive in 2020. The team was dysfunctional but he was still fantastic, carrying the team during the regular season and post-season. His scoring arsenal, increased playmaking and defense puts him behind Brand and McAdoo for me.

5. 2015 Blake Griffin

A strong season where no other player is remotely close to Blake Griffin as a player.

[Djoker]

1. 1974-1975 Bob McAdoo

This guy was just an offensive machine. 34.5/14.1 on +6.7 rTS and then 37.4/13.4 on +2.6 rTS in the playoffs. That's unbridled offensive greatness. And McAdoodle wasn't a bad defender either. I think of him as a proto-Durant. Tall, soft build with a beast jumper. A deserved MVP and probably the best player in the league that year given Kareem's injuries. It's really only Barry who can make a claim over McAdoo.

2. 2019-2020 Kawhi Leonard

His defense wasn't as good as it was in previous years but he was still borderline all-defensive selections and his offensive game is historically good. Scoring 30 ppg on +7 rTS in the postseason along with improved passing and he was an offensive dynamo. I really feel he was clearly a better player than CP3 although I'm sure some will disagree.

3. 2014-2015 Chris Paul

As the years went by, I found myself less and less impressed with CP3. Half the time he's injured in the playoffs and the other half he just looks too small to impact games on the highest level. This season he was relatively healthy and had a fantastic series against the Spurs then got injured... and his team became worse when he came back and proceeded to lose a 3-1 lead. I really feel like Paul is a worse player than his stats including advanced stats say about him. He was a super conservative player which kept his turnovers low but he rarely picked apart defenses with his passing. Or at least more rarely than he should have.

2005-2006 Elton Brand

This was a real case of a player peaking. This version of Brand was a whole tier better than any version before or after. He was a seriously good big man on both offense and defense. Hardly ever gets talked about these days but I remember being really impressed with him this year. Good post game, good from midrange and a hound on defense.

2014-2015 Blake Griffin

I honestly thought after his rookie year that Blake would be an MVP of the league at some point. He looked like a man among boys. So strong, fast, athletic and supremely coordinated (will never forget that dunk on Gallo lol). But a mix of injuries and lack of work ethic (?) stagnated his development and he never really improved after his early 20's. This was his best playoff run and kind of goes on here by default. Other years he usually dropped a ton in the playoffs and that's understandable given that defenses will do a good job at stopping the transition game plus lobs for dunks, two areas where Griffin did much of the damage. He never developed a reliable post game and he could hit the midrange shot but not at an elite clip.

[Odinn21]

what about 3 day windows but the new team starts in day 3 of the previous team?

that way there would still be a 1 day longer vote window
for late votes and a new thread every third day to keep interest up

If this is how you mean;
The Clippers thread started on May 6.
The next one, the Grizzlies thread starts on May 8.
I publish the Clippers results on May 9.
And so on...

I'm not particularly a fan of that because I certainly like running this project but the real life keeps happening and with that structure, I would have no off days;
The Grizzlies thread starts on May 8.
The Clippers results on May 9.
The Hawks thread starts on May 10.
The Grizzlies results on May 11.
The Heat thread starts on May 12.
The Hawks results on May 13.
The Hornets thread starts on May 14.

That goes like that for 48 days before the Wizards results.

[Colbinii]

1. 1974-1975 Bob McAdoo

This guy was just an offensive machine. 34.5/14.1 on +6.7 rTS and then 37.4/13.4 on +2.6 rTS in the playoffs. That's unbridled offensive greatness. And McAdoodle wasn't a bad defender either. I think of him as a proto-Durant. Tall, soft build with a beast jumper. A deserved MVP and probably the best player in the league that year given Kareem's injuries. It's really only Barry who can make a claim over McAdoo.

2. 2019-2020 Kawhi Leonard

His defense wasn't as good as it was in previous years but he was still borderline all-defensive selections and his offensive game is historically good. Scoring 30 ppg on +7 rTS in the postseason along with improved passing and he was an offensive dynamo. I really feel he was clearly a better player than CP3 although I'm sure some will disagree.

3. 2014-2015 Chris Paul

As the years went by, I found myself less and less impressed with CP3. Half the time he's injured in the playoffs and the other half he just looks too small to impact games on the highest level. This season he was relatively healthy and had a fantastic series against the Spurs then got injured... and his team became worse when he came back and proceeded to lose a 3-1 lead. I really feel like Paul is a worse player than his stats including advanced stats say about him. He was a super conservative player which kept his turnovers low but he rarely picked apart defenses with his passing. Or at least more rarely than he should have.

What does this even mean?

Chris Paul anchored the #1 Offense in the NBA in 2015. The Clippers had a 118.1 Ortg with Paul on the court and a 98.6 Ortg with him on the bench. Think about that, a near 20 point per 100 possession swing and you are attempting to formulate an argument against Chris Paul that he couldn't pick teams apart with his passing?

Even in the post-season (much smaller sample) the Clippers were significantly better with Paul on the court than off the court.

Your argument for Kawhi and McAdoo is "There stats are great so their impact must be great" but then with Paul you do the opposite, stating Paul has great numbers but I dont think they are that great.
Where is the consistency here?

We have a swath of data supporting Chris Paul's impact. We have a 13-year sample from 2008 through 2020 saying When Paul is on the court, his teams outscore opponents by +8.6 points per 100 and his team gets better by +12.7 points per 100. We have data from 2012-2017, his time spent on the Clippers, a 6-year sample, saying when Paul is on the court that the Clippers outscore opponents by +11.0 per 100 and the Clippers are +14.5 points per 100 better with Paul than without Paul.

The Clippers improved from 22nd to 4th in Ortg with the arrival of Paul. The team proceeded to finish 4th, 1st, 1st, 8th and 5th in Ortg the next 5 seasons.

We get it, you don't like Chris Paul...but stating that you don't think his impact is found in his advanced stats when the only 2 players over this period who were more impactful were LeBron James and Steph Curry just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when reading your description.

[Djoker]

1. 1974-1975 Bob McAdoo

This guy was just an offensive machine. 34.5/14.1 on +6.7 rTS and then 37.4/13.4 on +2.6 rTS in the playoffs. That's unbridled offensive greatness. And McAdoodle wasn't a bad defender either. I think of him as a proto-Durant. Tall, soft build with a beast jumper. A deserved MVP and probably the best player in the league that year given Kareem's injuries. It's really only Barry who can make a claim over McAdoo.

2. 2019-2020 Kawhi Leonard

His defense wasn't as good as it was in previous years but he was still borderline all-defensive selections and his offensive game is historically good. Scoring 30 ppg on +7 rTS in the postseason along with improved passing and he was an offensive dynamo. I really feel he was clearly a better player than CP3 although I'm sure some will disagree.

3. 2014-2015 Chris Paul

As the years went by, I found myself less and less impressed with CP3. Half the time he's injured in the playoffs and the other half he just looks too small to impact games on the highest level. This season he was relatively healthy and had a fantastic series against the Spurs then got injured... and his team became worse when he came back and proceeded to lose a 3-1 lead. I really feel like Paul is a worse player than his stats including advanced stats say about him. He was a super conservative player which kept his turnovers low but he rarely picked apart defenses with his passing. Or at least more rarely than he should have.

What does this even mean?

Chris Paul anchored the #1 Offense in the NBA in 2015. The Clippers had a 118.1 Ortg with Paul on the court and a 98.6 Ortg with him on the bench. Think about that, a near 20 point per 100 possession swing and you are attempting to formulate an argument against Chris Paul that he couldn't pick teams apart with his passing?

Even in the post-season (much smaller sample) the Clippers were significantly better with Paul on the court than off the court.

Your argument for Kawhi and McAdoo is "There stats are great so their impact must be great" but then with Paul you do the opposite, stating Paul has great numbers but I dont think they are that great.
Where is the consistency here?

We have a swath of data supporting Chris Paul's impact. We have a 13-year sample from 2008 through 2020 saying When Paul is on the court, his teams outscore opponents by +8.6 points per 100 and his team gets better by +12.7 points per 100. We have data from 2012-2017, his time spent on the Clippers, a 6-year sample, saying when Paul is on the court that the Clippers outscore opponents by +11.0 per 100 and the Clippers are +14.5 points per 100 better with Paul than without Paul.

The Clippers improved from 22nd to 4th in Ortg with the arrival of Paul. The team proceeded to finish 4th, 1st, 1st, 8th and 5th in Ortg the next 5 seasons.

We get it, you don't like Chris Paul...but stating that you don't think his impact is found in his advanced stats when the only 2 players over this period who were more impactful were LeBron James and Steph Curry just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when reading your description.

Paul's low minutes played and constant injuries are the biggest issue.

What I mean by "stats overrate him" is not that he isn't good but that his total impact is overestimated by his statistical footprint. A player like Paul with a +20 offensive differential playing 35 minutes a game is likely much worse than say a player with a +15 offensive differential playing 42 minutes per game. This is because drop-off when a star sits if often huge.

As far as his actual game, he is a very conservative player. He rarely attempts risky passes but rarely reaps the big rewards too. His assist numbers consistently nosedived in the playoffs and defenses forced him into being more of a scorer. He did the scoring reasonably well don't get me wrong but he is not a #1 scoring option on a championship team. It's easy to blame his teammates but Paul not only lost in the 1st or 2nd round every year but always lost to a team that lost in the round right after. His playoff resume as a leader of a team is really close to non-existent. We've seen many lesser players like Iverson, Kidd, Lillard lead their teams further... arguably less talented rosters in fact. I just see Paul as a flawed basketball player.

Anyways I should have probably clarified what I meant. Paul had great impact when healthy on the floor but a combination of low minutes and injuries capped his overall impact to well below even guys like Nash. Lebron and Curry are on a whole other level. Either way I think Paul peaked with the Hornets around 2008.

[Colbinii]

1. 1974-1975 Bob McAdoo

This guy was just an offensive machine. 34.5/14.1 on +6.7 rTS and then 37.4/13.4 on +2.6 rTS in the playoffs. That's unbridled offensive greatness. And McAdoodle wasn't a bad defender either. I think of him as a proto-Durant. Tall, soft build with a beast jumper. A deserved MVP and probably the best player in the league that year given Kareem's injuries. It's really only Barry who can make a claim over McAdoo.

2. 2019-2020 Kawhi Leonard

His defense wasn't as good as it was in previous years but he was still borderline all-defensive selections and his offensive game is historically good. Scoring 30 ppg on +7 rTS in the postseason along with improved passing and he was an offensive dynamo. I really feel he was clearly a better player than CP3 although I'm sure some will disagree.

3. 2014-2015 Chris Paul

As the years went by, I found myself less and less impressed with CP3. Half the time he's injured in the playoffs and the other half he just looks too small to impact games on the highest level. This season he was relatively healthy and had a fantastic series against the Spurs then got injured... and his team became worse when he came back and proceeded to lose a 3-1 lead. I really feel like Paul is a worse player than his stats including advanced stats say about him. He was a super conservative player which kept his turnovers low but he rarely picked apart defenses with his passing. Or at least more rarely than he should have.

What does this even mean?

Chris Paul anchored the #1 Offense in the NBA in 2015. The Clippers had a 118.1 Ortg with Paul on the court and a 98.6 Ortg with him on the bench. Think about that, a near 20 point per 100 possession swing and you are attempting to formulate an argument against Chris Paul that he couldn't pick teams apart with his passing?

Even in the post-season (much smaller sample) the Clippers were significantly better with Paul on the court than off the court.

Your argument for Kawhi and McAdoo is "There stats are great so their impact must be great" but then with Paul you do the opposite, stating Paul has great numbers but I dont think they are that great.
Where is the consistency here?

We have a swath of data supporting Chris Paul's impact. We have a 13-year sample from 2008 through 2020 saying When Paul is on the court, his teams outscore opponents by +8.6 points per 100 and his team gets better by +12.7 points per 100. We have data from 2012-2017, his time spent on the Clippers, a 6-year sample, saying when Paul is on the court that the Clippers outscore opponents by +11.0 per 100 and the Clippers are +14.5 points per 100 better with Paul than without Paul.

The Clippers improved from 22nd to 4th in Ortg with the arrival of Paul. The team proceeded to finish 4th, 1st, 1st, 8th and 5th in Ortg the next 5 seasons.

We get it, you don't like Chris Paul...but stating that you don't think his impact is found in his advanced stats when the only 2 players over this period who were more impactful were LeBron James and Steph Curry just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when reading your description.

Paul's low minutes played and constant injuries are the biggest issue.

What I mean by "stats overrate him" is not that he isn't good but that his total impact is overestimated by his statistical footprint. A player like Paul with a +20 offensive differential playing 35 minutes a game is likely much worse than say a player with a +15 offensive differential playing 42 minutes per game.

Kawhi played 32.4 MPG.

Your opinion seems completely unreasonable while disregarding all facts and logic. Ultimately we are entitled to any opinion we want to have and we only are capable of interpreting data to that we can comprehend.

[Djoker]

What does this even mean?

Chris Paul anchored the #1 Offense in the NBA in 2015. The Clippers had a 118.1 Ortg with Paul on the court and a 98.6 Ortg with him on the bench. Think about that, a near 20 point per 100 possession swing and you are attempting to formulate an argument against Chris Paul that he couldn't pick teams apart with his passing?

Even in the post-season (much smaller sample) the Clippers were significantly better with Paul on the court than off the court.

Your argument for Kawhi and McAdoo is "There stats are great so their impact must be great" but then with Paul you do the opposite, stating Paul has great numbers but I dont think they are that great.
Where is the consistency here?

We have a swath of data supporting Chris Paul's impact. We have a 13-year sample from 2008 through 2020 saying When Paul is on the court, his teams outscore opponents by +8.6 points per 100 and his team gets better by +12.7 points per 100. We have data from 2012-2017, his time spent on the Clippers, a 6-year sample, saying when Paul is on the court that the Clippers outscore opponents by +11.0 per 100 and the Clippers are +14.5 points per 100 better with Paul than without Paul.

The Clippers improved from 22nd to 4th in Ortg with the arrival of Paul. The team proceeded to finish 4th, 1st, 1st, 8th and 5th in Ortg the next 5 seasons.

We get it, you don't like Chris Paul...but stating that you don't think his impact is found in his advanced stats when the only 2 players over this period who were more impactful were LeBron James and Steph Curry just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when reading your description.

Paul's low minutes played and constant injuries are the biggest issue.

What I mean by "stats overrate him" is not that he isn't good but that his total impact is overestimated by his statistical footprint. A player like Paul with a +20 offensive differential playing 35 minutes a game is likely much worse than say a player with a +15 offensive differential playing 42 minutes per game.

Kawhi played 32.4 MPG.

Your opinion seems completely unreasonable while disregarding all facts and logic. Ultimately we are entitled to any opinion we want to have and we only are capable of interpreting data to that we can comprehend.

Kawhi played >39 mpg in the playoffs.

[Colbinii]

Paul's low minutes played and constant injuries are the biggest issue.

What I mean by "stats overrate him" is not that he isn't good but that his total impact is overestimated by his statistical footprint. A player like Paul with a +20 offensive differential playing 35 minutes a game is likely much worse than say a player with a +15 offensive differential playing 42 minutes per game.

Kawhi played 32.4 MPG.

Your opinion seems completely unreasonable while disregarding all facts and logic. Ultimately we are entitled to any opinion we want to have and we only are capable of interpreting data to that we can comprehend.

Kawhi played >39 mpg in the playoffs.

Perhaps if Paul could have rested more during the regular season he could play more minutes.

Paul played 37.1 MPG in the post-season, not a big difference.

I just read your reasoning and can't actually follow them when attempting to use any sort of logic. Its all good, maybe I just am missing your point and reasoning and my experience and knowledge pool is simply different than yours

[Djoker]

Kawhi played 32.4 MPG.

Your opinion seems completely unreasonable while disregarding all facts and logic. Ultimately we are entitled to any opinion we want to have and we only are capable of interpreting data to that we can comprehend.

Kawhi played >39 mpg in the playoffs.

Perhaps if Paul could have rested more during the regular season he could play more minutes.

Paul played 37.1 MPG in the post-season, not a big difference.

I just read your reasoning and can't actually follow them when attempting to use any sort of logic. Its all good, maybe I just am missing your point and reasoning and my experience and knowledge pool is simply different than yours

Well.. my (subjective) analysis of Paul's game is probably different than yous.

Peaks are incredibly subjective especially if one doesn't have many hours to research and digest data which unfortunately I haven't in recent days. I appreciate if people break down my posts and point on inconsistencies. I agree that using stats to justify McAdoo and Kawhi's placement and then refusing to use them with Paul seems like a double standard. That's why I took the time to clarify my position. I think Paul's stats are tremendous but I'm docking him for lack of minutes plus injuries.

Did you see my long post responding to you?

[Dr Positivity]

I feel like Blake's season should be 2014. The gap between the playoff performance isn't THAT big, the scoring numbers is pretty similar when adjusted for minutes and possession but he rebounded and passed better in 2015. I think 2014 is his career year.

[Colbinii]

Did you see my long post responding to you?

Yes but we are too far away. You have your biases about Chris Paul and differences compared to mine are just not worth my time. You're starting from an extreme position which doesn't make any sense to me.

[LA Bird]

1. 2015 Chris Paul
2. 2020 Kawhi Leonard
3. 1975 Bob McAdoo
Peak McAdoo was a monstrous scorer but he wasn't a two way player like the other two and his non box score impact also seems a little weak. Kawhi went from being wildly overrated as the next coming of MJ to being irrelevant in just one year but I thought 2020 was actually his best season with improved playmaking and defensive effort. Chris Paul had one of the highest point guard peaks ever and is so complete as a player that the argument against him besides health is just 'if he is so good why didn't he win more'. People are putting too much value on ringzzz if they have to nitpick for flaws in a player who led a +12.5 on-court offense.

4. 2006 Elton Brand
5. 2014 Blake Griffin
I actually find 06 Brand a little overrated on this board. He got blocks but he was never a great defensive player and he only went ham on the Suns who were trash on defense towards the end of the season. Griffin's handles and passing made him a better offensive player and it was quite impressive how well he led the Clippers while Paul was out that season.

Overall, the Clippers have a pretty nice top 5 peak despite how bad they are as a franchise historically. I had a brief look at the TWolves and Grizzlies and the lack of talent in comparison is pretty bad.

[falcolombardi]

1. 1974-1975 Bob McAdoo

This guy was just an offensive machine. 34.5/14.1 on +6.7 rTS and then 37.4/13.4 on +2.6 rTS in the playoffs. That's unbridled offensive greatness. And McAdoodle wasn't a bad defender either. I think of him as a proto-Durant. Tall, soft build with a beast jumper. A deserved MVP and probably the best player in the league that year given Kareem's injuries. It's really only Barry who can make a claim over McAdoo.

2. 2019-2020 Kawhi Leonard

His defense wasn't as good as it was in previous years but he was still borderline all-defensive selections and his offensive game is historically good. Scoring 30 ppg on +7 rTS in the postseason along with improved passing and he was an offensive dynamo. I really feel he was clearly a better player than CP3 although I'm sure some will disagree.

3. 2014-2015 Chris Paul

As the years went by, I found myself less and less impressed with CP3. Half the time he's injured in the playoffs and the other half he just looks too small to impact games on the highest level. This season he was relatively healthy and had a fantastic series against the Spurs then got injured... and his team became worse when he came back and proceeded to lose a 3-1 lead. I really feel like Paul is a worse player than his stats including advanced stats say about him. He was a super conservative player which kept his turnovers low but he rarely picked apart defenses with his passing. Or at least more rarely than he should have.

2005-2006 Elton Brand

This was a real case of a player peaking. This version of Brand was a whole tier better than any version before or after. He was a seriously good big man on both offense and defense. Hardly ever gets talked about these days but I remember being really impressed with him this year. Good post game, good from midrange and a hound on defense.

2014-2015 Blake Griffin

I honestly thought after his rookie year that Blake would be an MVP of the league at some point. He looked like a man among boys. So strong, fast, athletic and supremely coordinated (will never forget that dunk on Gallo lol). But a mix of injuries and lack of work ethic (?) stagnated his development and he never really improved after his early 20's. This was his best playoff run and kind of goes on here by default. Other years he usually dropped a ton in the playoffs and that's understandable given that defenses will do a good job at stopping the transition game plus lobs for dunks, two areas where Griffin did much of the damage. He never developed a reliable post game and he could hit the midrange shot but not at an elite clip.

are you sure you dont have a bias against chris paul approach?

cause you are criticizing for his conservative offense even when his actual offensive results are all time great

otherwise i dont get the criticism at his conservative play making which led to elite results almost every year

[homecourtloss]

1. 2015 Chris Paul

Incredible impact . Clippers were awful with him off court no matter who was on court. Dominant season. That team was one player away from challenging for the title as long as Jamal “net negative” Crawford lost PT. Should have beaten Houston if not for Josh Smith and Corey Brewer catching fire from three. Tortured Kawhi in ball screen actions in round 1. He had complete mastery of the game.

2. 2020 Kawhi
Wanted to put Brand here but didn’t like Brand’s overall impact compared to Kawhi’s. Kawhi had a very good offensive postseason as well, but his defense was actually quite poor through both series to put him above CP3.

3. 2006 Elton Brand
Peak Brand in every sense of the word. Great offensive series vs. Suns in the playoffs.

4. 1975 McAdoo
Great raw numbers, WOWYR doesn’t seem to like him as much, defense an issue. ‘74 or ‘75 I can easily see here though played more 8 more games.

5. 2015 Blake Griffin

I like 2014 and even 2012 regular seasons better but the playoffs push him here

[HeartBreakKid]

Blake Griffin isn't much of a scorer but he has a pretty sublime game. If he stayed healthy he would have had a really decorated career.

His jump shooting was pretty good by 2015, not as good as Bob's but still very servicable.

BG was a much improved defender, he's not the rock that Brand was but he's way ahead of McAdoo most likely. Griffin I think was punished a lot by his bad reputation earlier in his career for defense. Later on his horizontal defense looked quite good.

Passing and floor generalship - everyone knows he's good at this, but I don't think it registers with people how good. He was basically running point forward as a natural 4. Games with CP3 out in the post season, Griffin is doing some real heavy lifting with an awful roster. His ability to control the pace with his handles is something and he sees the floor a lot.

I really think Griffin's guard like skills make up a lot of ground against McAdoo's mega scoring. Also, McAdoo's scoring isn't much of an outlier in the post season and I think it's probably because he is so jump shooter friendly. Griffin on the other hand doesn't really need to be efficient (and often wasn't that efficient) to have major offensive impact. He also did not have great spacing because of DeAndre Jordan which naturally took away Griffin's best strength which is attacking the paint and creative finishes.


Griffin sometimes gets pegged as a good rebounder but his numbers are solid and pretty appropriate for his position. Biggest reason why he didn't get 10 rebounds per game more often was because DeAndre Jordan was the best rebounder in the league or close to it.

Albeit you could argue that Griffin might have just improved, he looked pretty dang good his first season with Detroit. He carried a bad team to .500, so it's not like he's just a product of CP3. In terms of team success, he's not that much worse that Bob McAdoo. Had deeper playoff runs with the Clippers albeit on a much better team, but also carried his Detroit team to a worse record during the RS than Bob but in this case Bob's team was better.


Even though I have grown considerably bigger than Bob McAdoo this year, I'm still not convinced that he was that impactful. I think he is very much a player that people look at PPG+TS%+regular season performance and might jump to some conclusions, the MVP helps too.

I also think Elton Brand is not as good as his numbers suggest, more so as a defender. I used to be mega big into Brand, but watching him play the way he plays defense doesn't seem that scalable/resilient? He's still better than Griffin and McAdoo by a lot, but perhaps his rim protection and rebounds may over state how good of a defender he was.

[Djoker]

Did you see my long post responding to you?

Yes but we are too far away. You have your biases about Chris Paul and differences compared to mine are just not worth my time. You're starting from an extreme position which doesn't make any sense to me.

We are too far away indeed. I just read your ranking and saw that you put Paul in the same sentence as peak Magic and peak Curry. I don't see Paul in the same tier as those guys. He's in the Isiah/Nash tier although probably below both. Those guys had similar offensive impact (Nash slightly better, Isiah slightly worse) while being far more durable.