The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1801 » by falcolombardi » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:22 pm

is not just a lebron trend although he is the most prominent example

there is a certain current of thought about evaluating players in "negative" way, instead of seeing al what they do and achieve, the objective is tearing them down for everythingh they dont do or fail at

players are in their early 20's these days and media is already in questioning their legacies mode, keeping the score of any real or perceived failure so they can tear then down for it, was happening with giannis and will soon happen with luka

with lebron is more Extreme because he is compared to jordan who has a mythified image in people minds as someone who never failed or underperformed, so every time someone thinks lebron fails it chips away at his successes.

effectively lebron gets valued on a "perfection" Curve and every time his play or team results are not perfect it is a stain on him

since past figures dont have their "failures", lowlights or such defining them (magic, bird, jordan, kobe,dream, duncan, dirk) they are remembered for their accomplishmenrs instead. and used to tear down the new players who cannot compete with the idealized retired players of nostalgy

is why in every field of everythingh there is a sense of "any past time was better" sports, society, music

rant-end
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1802 » by thebigbird » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:36 pm

falcolombardi wrote:is not just a lebron trend although he is the most prominent example

there is a certain current of thought about evaluating players in "negative" way, instead of seeing al what they do and achieve, the objective is tearing them down for everythingh they dont do or fail at

players are in their early 20's these days and media is already in questioning their legacies mode, keeping the score of any real or perceived failure so they can tear then down for it, was happening with giannis and will soon happen with luka

with lebron is more Extreme because he is compared to jordan who has a mythified image in people minds as someone who never failed or underperformed, so every time someone thinks lebron fails it chips away at his successes.

effectively lebron gets valued on a "perfection" Curve and every time his play or team results are not perfect it is a stain on him

since past figures dont have their "failures", lowlights or such defining them (magic, bird, jordan, kobe,dream, duncan, dirk) they are remembered for their accomplishmenrs instead. and used to tear down the new players who cannot compete with the idealized retired players of nostalgy

is why in every field of everythingh there is a sense of "any past time was better" sports, society, music

rant-end

It seems almost exclusively an NBA thing, though. They don’t do that in the NFL. I don’t really pay attention to baseball, but I don’t think they do it there either. I don’t see baseball commentators coming out with “Shohei Ohtani never would’ve made it in Babe Ruth’s era.” Only the NBA has absolute cancers like Paul Pierce making clown takes about the game’s best players.
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The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1803 » by Greyhound » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:09 am

thebigbird wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:is not just a lebron trend although he is the most prominent example

there is a certain current of thought about evaluating players in "negative" way, instead of seeing al what they do and achieve, the objective is tearing them down for everythingh they dont do or fail at

players are in their early 20's these days and media is already in questioning their legacies mode, keeping the score of any real or perceived failure so they can tear then down for it, was happening with giannis and will soon happen with luka

with lebron is more Extreme because he is compared to jordan who has a mythified image in people minds as someone who never failed or underperformed, so every time someone thinks lebron fails it chips away at his successes.

effectively lebron gets valued on a "perfection" Curve and every time his play or team results are not perfect it is a stain on him

since past figures dont have their "failures", lowlights or such defining them (magic, bird, jordan, kobe,dream, duncan, dirk) they are remembered for their accomplishmenrs instead. and used to tear down the new players who cannot compete with the idealized retired players of nostalgy

is why in every field of everythingh there is a sense of "any past time was better" sports, society, music

rant-end

It seems almost exclusively an NBA thing, though. They don’t do that in the NFL. I don’t really pay attention to baseball, but I don’t think they do it there either. I don’t see baseball commentators coming out with “Shohei Ohtani never would’ve made it in Babe Ruth’s era.” Only the NBA has absolute cancers like Paul Pierce making clown takes about the game’s best players.

It does not really happen in baseball now, but that is only because baseball is very old. The Babe Ruth people are simply too old and decrepit to care anymore.

Their final stand, their coup de grace was the end of the steroid era. When all the big sluggers of the Juice ball era were incinerated in one swoop. With that they rode off into the sunset (GOAT secured).

———-

Baseball was the granddaddy of this sort of thing (once upon a time).

When I was a kid I remember every promising, up-and-coming, or great player would be put in “their place” by the ghost of Babe Ruth.

For decades Babe Ruth was used exactly the way Jordan is used now. As a bettering ram used to discredit and put down great/up and coming players (typically by those clinging to the memories of the heroes of their youth, and those clinging to the heroes from their daddies tales).

This continued up until the Ruthers and the second generation, second-handers aged out and retired out of the journalism ranks. The new blood took the reigns and began to prop up those they grew up watching.

This will be the fate of cult Jordan, eventually (in 30-50 years).
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1804 » by toodles23 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:28 pm



God damn 09 and 10 Lebron was a **** alien. I still think that might have been his peak. Putting on that weight in Miami was such a mistake.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1805 » by McBubbles » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:41 pm

toodles23 wrote:

God damn 09 and 10 Lebron was a **** alien. I still think that might have been his peak. Putting on that weight in Miami was such a mistake.


TBF as depressing and not cost effective as his weight gain was, he might have not won a championship in 2012 if he maintained his lower weight. Had to play the PF more often with Bosh out during that playoff run.

At least that's what I tell myself ;_;
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1806 » by falcolombardi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:16 pm

there is much bigger what ifs on lebron career than that one, it probably was not the problem in 2011 (bad roster construction and wrong roles) or 2014 (lebron had shed weight and the heat was running on fumes even more than. in 2013)

bigger what ifs for lebron career are

2008-2010, any of those 2 series vs boston could easily have been a win then a finals against the worse two versions of those finals lakers (injured 2008 and older 2010) i dont think they can beat lakers in 2009 since gasol amd bynum would punish them inside even more than howard

2015 if not for the injuries was doable

2017 i think they beat the warriors if not for durant making them a unprecedented juggernaut

2021 if not for injuries

also not a ring but. the 2013 DPOY or the 2020 mvp if bucks didnt go for 70 wins would pad his resume very nicely

specially because jordan dpoy is one of the biggest reasons people have jordan aa a much better defender than lebron in mainstream discussion (how jordan has a dpoy but not duncan is beyond me too, while we are at it)
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1807 » by toodles23 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:45 pm

falcolombardi wrote:there is much bigger what ifs on lebron career than that one, it probably was not the problem in 2011 (bad roster construction and wrong roles) or 2014 (lebron had shed weight and the heat was running on fumes even more than. in 2013)

bigger what ifs for lebron career are

2008-2010, any of those 2 series vs boston could easily have been a win then a finals against the worse two versions of those finals lakers (injured 2008 and older 2010) i dont think they can beat lakers in 2009 since gasol amd bynum would punish them inside even more than howard

2015 if not for the injuries was doable

2017 i think they beat the warriors if not for durant making them a unprecedented juggernaut

2021 if not for injuries

also not a ring but. the 2013 DPOY or the 2020 mvp if bucks didnt go for 70 wins would pad his resume very nicely

specially because jordan dpoy is one of the biggest reasons people have jordan aa a much better defender than lebron in mainstream discussion (how jordan has a dpoy but not duncan is beyond me too, while we are at it)

I agree there are much bigger what ifs, and there's nothing any individual player could have done to change the 2014 outcome, that was the result of all time fluky hot shooting plus the Heat being too old and tired to really properly execute their defensive scheme anymore. But given how close the 2011 series was I think it absolutely could have swung it, Lebron was struggling badly getting to the rim against the packed paint in a way that he just wouldn't have in 09. He was struggling to beat 38 year old Jason Kidd off the dribble in that series.

The play with 7:50 left in the 4th quarter for example, 09 or 10 Lebron would have 100% dunked it off the cut, no questions asked. Part of his hesitancy on that play was because he was in his own head, but I also think part of it was that he didn't have the explosion he used to.

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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1808 » by Greatness » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:14 pm

Watching that 4th quarter and I forgot just how terrible that Heat offense was, and that goes far beyond LeBron's poor finals. So many turnovers purely from the lack of general spacing or play calling to counter the defense. Spo should get a lot more blame for that series than he does, but obviously 100% of the blame is on LeBron.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1809 » by Homer38 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:22 pm

Greatness wrote:Watching that 4th quarter and I forgot just how terrible that Heat offense was, and that goes far beyond LeBron's poor finals. So many turnovers purely from the lack of general spacing or play calling to counter the defense. Spo should get a lot more blame for that series than he does, but obviously 100% of the blame is on LeBron.


Outside of a few games vs celtics and Bulls in the playoffs with LBJ hitting several clutch shot,the 2011 heat offense were just brutal all year long in close games.I remember when the heat losing 5 games in a row and 6 loss in 7 games late febuary in early march and every games outside of the spurs game were close but they were unable to win because of their terrible offense in close game.
Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1810 » by Homer38 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1811 » by Homer38 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:42 pm

Rondo back with the Lakers?

Read on Twitter
Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1812 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:44 pm

LOL
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1813 » by Homer38 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:46 pm

Read on Twitter
Hello Brooklyn wrote: Kyrie is still the most overrated player in the NBA by far.

He had one great shot in the Finals last year and everyone thinks hes Jesus.

Easy to look like a God when youre playing with the best player in the world.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1814 » by thebigbird » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:07 pm

Oh **** me, Rondo is back
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1815 » by Dupp » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Adding rondo is a mistake. They don’t need him and it’ll take away for on better players.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1816 » by nzahir » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:45 pm

WTF IS WRONG WITH PELINKA!!!!!

We need wing depth, not more guards, especially not Rondope

Rather would have had Wes or Ennis
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1817 » by falcolombardi » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:48 pm

pelinka team builds like basketball is a contest to have the most big names
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1818 » by thebigbird » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:59 pm

nzahir wrote:WTF IS WRONG WITH PELINKA!!!!!

We need wing depth, not more guards, especially not Rondope

Rather would have had Wes or Ennis

Honestly he just isn’t a good gm. He only has the job because of the Kobe connection. Building a good team around a top two as good as LeBron and AD is easy. You or I could do it. But he seems to lack any understanding of 2021 basketball. Oh I have LeBron and he kills it with great floor spacers? Let’s add Westbrook and Rondo. Rondo fills zero need that this team has.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1819 » by homecourtloss » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:27 pm

thebigbird wrote:Oh **** me, Rondo is back

thebigbird wrote:
nzahir wrote:WTF IS WRONG WITH PELINKA!!!!!

We need wing depth, not more guards, especially not Rondope

Rather would have had Wes or Ennis

Honestly he just isn’t a good gm. He only has the job because of the Kobe connection. Building a good team around a top two as good as LeBron and AD is easy. You or I could do it. But he seems to lack any understanding of 2021 basketball. Oh I have LeBron and he kills it with great floor spacers? Let’s add Westbrook and Rondo. Rondo fills zero need that this team has.


Would much rather have Wes or Ennis, BUT I will say this as an inveterate Rondo hater from day 1 with thebigbird: Rondo had an extraordinarily good connection with AD in the 2020 playoffs and for the first time in his career, LeBron could sit and the offense hummed along, and Rondo had a lot to do with it.Now, it’s also true that Rondo had an exceptionally hot shooting stretch of games which ameliorated it for is garbage defense and you can’t really count on that but the two main game that he had with AD was exceptionally good.

2020 playoffs

AD + Rondo ON, LeBron OFF
124.0 ORTg, 121.0 DRtg

Lakers’ defense was trash as per usual with LeBron off court but the offense was wildly good.

LeBron’s shooting with Rondo in the playoffs: 58.6% eFG, 64.4% TS.

They have too many players, though. Nunn, THT, Monk, Bazemore, Rondo, Ellington...seems crowded.
OdomFan wrote:I'd rather have Ray Allen on my team [over Curry].


Hal14 wrote:Not saying I put McHale over Duncan, but the argument can be made.
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Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#1820 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:01 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Oh **** me, Rondo is back

thebigbird wrote:
nzahir wrote:WTF IS WRONG WITH PELINKA!!!!!

We need wing depth, not more guards, especially not Rondope

Rather would have had Wes or Ennis

Honestly he just isn’t a good gm. He only has the job because of the Kobe connection. Building a good team around a top two as good as LeBron and AD is easy. You or I could do it. But he seems to lack any understanding of 2021 basketball. Oh I have LeBron and he kills it with great floor spacers? Let’s add Westbrook and Rondo. Rondo fills zero need that this team has.


Would much rather have Wes or Ennis, BUT I will say this as an inveterate Rondo hater from day 1 with thebigbird: Rondo had an extraordinarily good connection with AD in the 2020 playoffs and for the first time in his career, LeBron could sit and the offense hummed along, and Rondo had a lot to do with it.Now, it’s also true that Rondo had an exceptionally hot shooting stretch of games which ameliorated it for is garbage defense and you can’t really count on that but the two main game that he had with AD was exceptionally good.

2020 playoffs

AD + Rondo ON, LeBron OFF
124.0 ORTg, 121.0 DRtg

Lakers’ defense was trash as per usual with LeBron off court but the offense was wildly good.

LeBron’s shooting with Rondo in the playoffs: 58.6% eFG, 64.4% TS.

They have too many players, though. Nunn, THT, Monk, Bazemore, Rondo, Ellington...seems crowded.

Even if we assume that connection would be replicated (it was trash in the regular season), how do you get to those lineups with Westbrook on the roster? He would presumably be getting the bench playmaker minutes that Rondo was allocated that year.

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