VanWest82 wrote: homecourtloss wrote:
There were literally multiple threads here
No one who knows anything about NBA was saying Lebron and AD would be a bad pairing. They're the perfect pairing. It's a big part of the reason why people got so mad when Bron convinced AD to go scorched Earth on the Pels.
and elsewhere about how “LeBron would turn AD into Bosh/Love.”
Of course, never mind the fact that Love the way he was used created two all time great offenses.
Hah I rest my case. Bosh and Love sacrificed. Both those guys played lots with the ball as a creator from the elbow / pinch post prior to joining Lebron. AD did some of that too but he's always been most effective as a screener/roller who plays above the rim. Anyone who watched AD and Rondo In NO knew Bron/Davis would be a terrific pairing, especially defensively where AD gives Lebron some cover given he frequently rests on the weaker assignment.
Cavs had good offenses because they not only had Lebron, Love, and Kyrie but shooters like JR, Korver, Frye, RJ, etc. They were absolutely stacked. It had almost nothing to do with how they optimized Love
What are you talking about? His spacing provided lanes for driving. Love was awful finishing at the rim and post ups (again, go see NBA.com) in Cleveland and they minimized those opportunities and actually should have given him even fewer opportunities in the post (6th most post up possessions in 2016 playoffs, 7th most post up possessions in 2017 playoffs). All you’ve stuck with is the same narrative that doesn’t hold up to objective data. How does a player who’s top 7 in post up opportunities become a “spot up shooter”? Also, if they had given him 10-15 post ups or whatever it is that you want so that he’s not a “spot up shooter,” would that lead to two of the best post season offenses in NBA history? Because as he was used, that’s what the Cavs created.
“They were absolutely stacked.”
If so, explain the following:Cavs with LeBron on court and off court:
2015: +10.9 on, -5.8 off, +16.7 on-off
2016: +11.4 on, -4.7 off, +16.1 on-off
2017: +8.3 on, -8.8 off, +17.1 on-off
2015: +4.3 ON, +.8 OFF, +3.5 ON-OFF
2016: +13.4 ON, -6.4 OFF, +20.0 ON-OFF
2017: +13.0 ON, -19.2 OFF, +32.2 ON-OFF
Oh, yes, incredibly stacked. So much so that they were a high lottery pick type of team without James on court (4-23 to be precise).
Lastly, here are the numbers for the James/Love pairings compared to others. Would giving him more ISOs or post ups or whatever you suggest that make him more than a “spot up shooter” make the Cavs even better? If not for the best team ever put together and bad injury luck, Cavs likely three peat and you would never here this narrative of “made him a spot up shooter.”
Jordan +Pippen, 1997: +11.5 in 656 minutes (BKREF numbers for before 2008j
Jordan + Pippen, 1998: +8.1 in 724 minutes
Shaq + Kobe, 2000: +4.1 in 794 minutes
Shaq + Kobe, 2001: +14.9 in 620 minutes
Shaq + Kobe, 2002: +8.1 in 697 minutes
Shaq + Kobe, 2003: +3.1 in 449 minutes
Kobe + Odom, 2009: +16.1 in 598 minutes
Kobe + Gasol, 2009: +10.2 in 831 minutes
LBJ + Wade, 2012: +13.5 in 799 minutes
LBJ + Wade, 2013: +.5 in 678 minutes
LBJ + Allen, 2013: +11.5 in 455 minutes
KD + Westbrook, 2014: +2.9 in 696 minutes LBJ + Love, 2015: +15.9 in 99 minutes
LBJ + Tristan T., 2016: +16.9 in 547 minutes LBJ + Love, 2016: +14.9 in 548 minutes
LBJ + Kyrie, 2016: +12.5 in 672 minutes
KD+ Westbrook, 2016: +10.1 in 592 minutes
LBJ + Kyrie, 2017: +12.7 in 593 minutes LBJ + Love, 2017: +14.3 in 541 minutes (+22.3 before the finals)