10 Best European players NBA careers

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:07 pm

Career-wise, which are the top 10 careers for European players in the NBA?

European born players that were born to an American family and grew up in the US like Dominique Wilkins don't count for that matter. US born players that were born to European families and played for a European national team can be counted, e.g. Domantas Sabonis, but I don't think there is anyone that is worthy of the top 10.

My list:
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Tony Parker
5. Pau Gasol
6. Luka Doncic
7. Rudy Gobert
8. Marc Gasol
9. Peja Stojakovic
10. Drazen Petrovic
With Arvydas Sabonis being in consideration

70sFan · Post #2 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:16 pm

I'd have Pau Gasol over Parker clearly, I think we could consider Tom Meschery and Toni Kukoc as well.

Post #3 » by **Doctor MJ** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:25 pm

70sFan wrote:I'd have Pau Gasol over Parker clearly, I think we could consider Tom Meschery and Toni Kukoc as well.

Did Meschery ever actually live in Europe?

eminence · Post #4 » by **eminence** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:31 pm

I think overall there's a bit of recency bias in terms of career for your list (though I expect many of the new guys end higher). You also appear to value peak play a bit higher than I do.

My top 10 would probably look like this:
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Detlef Schrempf
4. Tony Parker
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo
6. Vlade Divac
7. Marc Gasol
8. Nikola Jokic
9. Rudy Gobert
10. Andrei Kirilenko
HM: Stojakovic and Deng

Edit: I was too high on Schrempf, he should probably be down around Marc.

Owly · Post #5 » by **Owly** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:39 pm

Don't think Meschery belongs game wise (and don't know eligibility wise what the feeling is - hitting one half of the disqualifier but I assume not the other).

Don't think Drazen belongs over Sabonis: way less productive at peak and worse longevity of productivity in the NBA (nor over Schrempf for that matter) though neither had the full chance (Sabonis early on, Drazen a bit early and then ... the crash).

Tangent: I assume Shawn Bradley isn't illegible. Haven't thought it out regarding his rank but despite awkward look and harsh coverage the production was solid and the impact good (though - and this is very noisy and limited in prime sample - the playoffs look worse in this regard and for production).

Deng was a big impact "favorite".
Kirilenko looked pretty good by impact too, plus some crazy box production without scoring a lot.

70sFan · Post #6 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:19 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
70sFan wrote:I'd have Pau Gasol over Parker clearly, I think we could consider Tom Meschery and Toni Kukoc as well.

Did Meschery ever actually live in Europe?

To be honest, I have no idea.

Post #7 » by **Doctor MJ** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:25 pm

70sFan wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
70sFan wrote:I'd have Pau Gasol over Parker clearly, I think we could consider Tom Meschery and Toni Kukoc as well.

Did Meschery ever actually live in Europe?

To be honest, I have no idea.

I don't think he did.

Post #8 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:44 pm

For careers that are finished or near-as I would have Dirk, Parker, and the Gasol brothers I think as the top 4. Obviously there are a couple of MVP's coming, a multi-time DPOY coming, a ROY coming among some others. But in terms of completed careers I think those would be my top 4.

Hawk · Post #9 » by **Hawk** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:39 pm

1. Dirk
2. Pau
3. Parker
4. Marc

That is the top 4 for me. Of course, both Doncic and Giannis have the potential to become the #1 once their careers are finished, but it will be a difficult task.

Rich Michmond · Post #10 » by **Rich Michmond** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:41 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Did Meschery ever actually live in Europe?

To be honest, I have no idea.

I don't think he did.

He was born in Manchuria and spent some time in a Japanese internment camp. He is actually related to the Tolstoy family; easily one of the most unusual players in terms of lineage/early years.

BoatsNZones · Post #11 » by **BoatsNZones** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:54 pm

Giannis, Jokic and Luka could retire tomorrow and they would all be seen as the top 4 Europeans ever after Dirk. MVP's aside for Giannis, he is already right at Marc's career total for WinShares/VORP and will pass it midway through next season (ditto Joker). And Luka is such a phenom we can say he needs 2-3 more years to enter that discussion for top 4, but he would widely be recognized by most as a top 4 Euro ever if he did indeed retire tomorrow. Pau was a GREAT player, but not close to these guys.

Post #12 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:32 am

Rich Michmond wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
70sFan wrote:To be honest, I have no idea.

I don't think he did.

He was born in Manchuria and spent some time in a Japanese internment camp. He is actually related to the Tolstoy family; easily one of the most unusual players in terms of lineage/early years.

Huh. Was not expecting to learn that. Curiouser and curiouser.

Gooner · Post #13 » by **Gooner** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:40 am

Gasol over Giannis and Jokic any day. Winning matters much more than stats. Gasol could do everything on basketball court.

BmanInBigD · Post #14 » by **BmanInBigD** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm

Gooner wrote:Gasol over Giannis and Jokic any day. Winning matters much more than stats. Gasol could do everything on basketball court.

LOL. Winning is much easier if you play with Kobe's Lakers. When he was the best player on his team, he never won anything.

HeartBreakKid · Post #15 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:39 pm

Gooner wrote:Gasol over Giannis and Jokic any day. Winning matters much more than stats. Gasol could do everything on basketball court.

Pau Gasol never won a single playoff game before he was traded to the Lakers. At this point Giannis has won much more than Gasol has at the same age.

HeartBreakKid · Post #16 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:44 pm

This is more peak based

1) Nikola Jokic (probably)
2) Dirk Nowitzki (easily #1 with longevity taken into account)
3) Luka Doncic
4) Giannis (too lazy to spell his last name)
5) Marc Gasol
6) Pau Gasol
7) Tony Parker (might ran him lower)
8) Rudy Gobert
9) Peja Stojakovic
10) Andrei Kirilenko

Daddy Sabonis, Divac, Drazen are all guys to consider for me.

Post #17 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:57 pm

Marc over Pau? Wow. And if it's peak, Mark over Rudy similarly wow. You rate Marc Gasol's peak more highly than I do.

Post #18 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:59 pm

Rich Michmond wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
70sFan wrote:To be honest, I have no idea.

I don't think he did.

He was born in Manchuria and spent some time in a Japanese internment camp. He is actually related to the Tolstoy family; easily one of the most unusual players in terms of lineage/early years.

To be fair, his nickname was "The Mad Russian."

HeartBreakKid · Post #19 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:01 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Marc over Pau? Wow. And if it's peak, Mark over Rudy similarly wow. You rate Marc Gasol's peak more highly than I do.

Marc won a championship for a team that never won it before :bowdown:

Marc vs Rudy is more about Marc's offensive utility. Rudy got a lot of limits on that end, but I do think Rudy is easily a better defender.

Marc and Pau are equal to me. Just one is more scoring based and the other defensive. I think Marc's scoring ability is a bit misunderstood though.

Gooner · Post #20 » by **Gooner** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Gooner wrote:Gasol over Giannis and Jokic any day. Winning matters much more than stats. Gasol could do everything on basketball court.

Pau Gasol never won a single playoff game before he was traded to the Lakers. At this point Giannis has won much more than Gasol has at the same age.

At trash Memphis. He won with the Lakers, that's what we know. We don't know what will happen in the future with Giannis or Jokic. When they win then we can start the discussion, but inflated stats from this era don't impress me enough to put these guys in the conversation with guys like Pau, Dirk or Parker.