Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards

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Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#1 » by giordunk » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:43 pm

For the sake of this convo he'll put the cutoff at Kevin Mchale/Karl Malone/Charles Barkley since there's been a very strong crop of power forwards since then.

Is Giannis winning a ring enough for people to put him ahead of Malone and Barkley?
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#2 » by Stalwart » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:33 pm

Eventually, yes.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#3 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:25 pm

Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#4 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:30 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.

Why is that?
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#5 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.

Why is that?


He's not as good at basketball.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#6 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:09 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.

Why is that?


He's not as good at basketball.

Hmm..compared to Karl Malone? Karl is a better passer, but I would think Davis has the edge every where else.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#7 » by GSP » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:34 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.


Ads far closer to the Chucks and Karls than Pau **** Gasol :lol: :lol:

At least you know you can win a playoff game with Ad as your best player not to mention hes won a playoff series in a historic upset where a team seeded 6-8 never swept a higher seed in the 1st round in a best of 7 until his team did it against Portland
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#8 » by feyki » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:12 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Only longevity keeps Giannis from the big 3 of Duncan/KG/Dirk atm. He's a spectacular player. AD is more competing with guys like Pau Gasol than Chuck/Mailman.


Are you serious? AD has no less career than TD/KG at 27 age. Pau Gasol? What kind of joke is this?
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#9 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:15 pm

What is with all the Pau Gasol slander lately on this board? Pau Gasol is a fantastic player and its not an insult to be compared to him. Chuck and Mailman are top 20 all-time guys. I think its okay for me to say AD isn't there for me, no?

AD is a great player. I just don't think he's on the level of some serious all-time greats I understand many disagree with me, but that's simply where I am right now.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#10 » by Strepbacter » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:56 pm

AD competing with Pau lmao.

Both are clearly superior to guys like Dirk (who couldn't guard his own shadow), but behind KG/Duncan.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#11 » by Stalwart » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:01 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:What is with all the Pau Gasol slander lately on this board? Pau Gasol is a fantastic player and its not an insult to be compared to him. Chuck and Mailman are top 20 all-time guys. I think its okay for me to say AD isn't there for me, no?

AD is a great player. I just don't think he's on the level of some serious all-time greats I understand many disagree with me, but that's simply where I am right now.


Its because you keep trying to elevate Pau to levels he didn't reach. Statements like "Pau was top 10 in the league" is whats driving it.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#12 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm

I wouldn't call it slander per say. AD to me (and probably most people) is clearly below the Dirk/Giannis/Duncan tier at this point but where's the data to suggest that Pau was ever really that close? 21-year old (2015) Davis peaked higher than Pau ever did and I'm not sure it's even debatable.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#13 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:07 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I wouldn't call it slander per say. AD to me (and probably most people) is clearly below the Dirk/Giannis/Duncan tier at this point but where's the data to suggest that Pau was ever really that close? 21-year old (2015) Davis peaked higher than Pau ever did and I'm not sure it's even debatable.


I'm not a one year peak guy.

And look if we are talking purely about talent. AD is way up there. He's definitely more "talented" than Karl Malone. But that's not how I evaluate players. Otherwise I'd be a huge TMac mark and instead I think he's one of the most overrated players of all-time. Mailman's overall impact just dwarfs AD's to date. I couldn't remotely put him in that category.

And clearly I'm higher on Pau than the Kobe guys trying to minimize him. Not getting back into any arguments that Pau Gasol was never one of the 10 best players in the league. Of course he was.

Is it possible in 6 or 7 years when AD is done I will have him a tier(s) above Pau? Absolutely. But right now I have him much closer to Pau than the elite of the elites.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#14 » by 70sFan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:29 pm

I think that Pau comments is a bit too much (as mch as I love Gasol), but I don't think Davis is even close to the top 6 PFs ever (including Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Malone, Barkley and Pettit).
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#15 » by Strepbacter » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:33 pm

70sFan wrote:I think that Pau comments is a bit too much


You, GSP, and feyki are obviously just Kobe guys trying to minimize him! Yeah. That's it.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#16 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:54 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:I wouldn't call it slander per say. AD to me (and probably most people) is clearly below the Dirk/Giannis/Duncan tier at this point but where's the data to suggest that Pau was ever really that close? 21-year old (2015) Davis peaked higher than Pau ever did and I'm not sure it's even debatable.


I'm not a one year peak guy.

And look if we are talking purely about talent. AD is way up there. He's definitely more "talented" than Karl Malone. But that's not how I evaluate players. Otherwise I'd be a huge TMac mark and instead I think he's one of the most overrated players of all-time. Mailman's overall impact just dwarfs AD's to date. I couldn't remotely put him in that category.

And clearly I'm higher on Pau than the Kobe guys trying to minimize him. Not getting back into any arguments that Pau Gasol was never one of the 10 best players in the league. Of course he was.

Is it possible in 6 or 7 years when AD is done I will have him a tier(s) above Pau? Absolutely. But right now I have him much closer to Pau than the elite of the elites.

Every healthy version of AD from 2015 to the present is clearly better than Pau Gasol, not really debatable. If certainly wouldn't take 6-7 years for AD to pass Pau that just seems silly.

No one is "slandering" Pau Gasol, people are just recognizing when two players are of different caliber.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#17 » by ShotCreator » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:06 pm

2020 AD casually outperformed playoff LeBron.

There’s no scenario where I’d put Gasol over him as a player unless we talk injuries like his past season. But that’s boring talk.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#18 » by 70sFan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:01 pm

Strepbacter wrote:
70sFan wrote:I think that Pau comments is a bit too much


You, GSP, and feyki are obviously just Kobe guys trying to minimize him! Yeah. That's it.

Of course, we all know that! :D

I really like Pau and I think he is underrated historically (I have him clearly over Webber, Amar'e or Bosh historically) but Davis is weak-MVP level at his very best. He's inconsistent and lacks durability, but he peajed clearly higher than Pau ever did.

That said, I don't see Davis case over the immortal 6 and Giannis has clearly better career up to now.
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#19 » by Stalwart » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:05 pm

70sFan wrote:
Strepbacter wrote:
70sFan wrote:I think that Pau comments is a bit too much


You, GSP, and feyki are obviously just Kobe guys trying to minimize him! Yeah. That's it.

Of course, we all know that! :D

I really like Pau and I think he is underrated historically (I have him clearly over Webber, Amar'e or Bosh historically) but Davis is weak-MVP level at his very best. He's inconsistent and lacks durability, but he peajed clearly higher than Pau ever did.

That said, I don't see Davis case over the immortal 6 and Giannis has clearly better career up to now.


On what basis do you have Pau over Webber?
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Re: Where do you rank Giannis and AD amongst "modern" power forwards 

Post#20 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:22 pm

You don't have to be that high on one-year peaks or the idea of "talent" trumping impact to have AD as a tier above peak Gasol though. Take their 3-4 best seasons and I still don't think it's that close unless you just really value Pau's superior durability. I'd rank it something like:

2015 AD
2020 AD
2018 AD
2010 Pau
2009 Pau
2017 AD
2006 Pau
2011 Pau


Davis has the significant advantage in nearly every box/advanced metric (scoring efficiency + volume, PER, WS/48, BPM, adjusted on/off). Didn't the most recent multi-year RAPM (17-20) have AD firmly as a Top-10 impact guy as well? Idk, this relatively new narrative of Davis being closer to a Pau-level player ever since he came to LA seems much more like Lebron fans trying to downplay his impact than Kobe fans trying to downplay Gasol's.

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