LukaTheGOAT wrote:People don'tweight the RS and PS all the same however, so one could argue that Duncan provided more value over the RS, but in the PS Lebron regained the lead. I know you hate the one-number metrics in the PS but:
Backpicks BPM-8.4 (3rd highest OBPM ever of significant minutes players, with only 09 LBJ and 91 Jordan coming out ahead)
I'll leave 2005 outside of it because Duncan's raw +/- numbers which are the starting points for any adjustments were f'ed with injury related lineup / minute allocation changes.
How's that outlook between 2018 James and 2001 Duncan bigger than the gap in regular season performances? I mean really?..
LukaTheGOAT wrote:One of 18 Lebron's big appeals is that he upped his game in the PS. By the metrics, it certainly doesn't seem unreasonable to feel like 18 Lebron was special. Also, it is about how you interpret the defensive impact metrics. One could argue that Lebron was among the worst defensive players in the league if you look at certain numbers, and sure that would be fair. Yet, 06 Kobe and 03 McGrady both look like healthy negatives on D, yet many on this board would say they were more so neutral to slight positive defenders, and that their defensive metrics are dragged down bly an overall bad defensive cast (and hence it is not indicative of their actual abilities on that end).
This is straight up a bad argument. A very bad one. Just look at what you're basing your argument;
2003 McGrady was a slight positive defender, he was 121st of 428 (top 29%) in D-RAPM according to Engelmann's numbers.
2006 McGrady was a slight negative defender, he was 240th of 456 (top 53%) in D-RAPM.
2018 Bryant was a very negative defender, he was 477th of 539 (top 89%) in D-RAPM.
I also listed 3 independent +/- tracking and in all of those 3, 2018 James was ranked at the bottom of the league.
This is hardly interpretation dependant.
LukaTheGOAT wrote:I believe you even said in a post on a different discussion about how 2020 Lebron in the PS looked like a slower and less dominant version of 2018 Lebron. But if you looked at the metrics, he would be better than every player we are discussing now.
I've never said such thing. But I should add the following part because this part and that part will have the same answer.
LukaTheGOAT wrote:Now, is 2020 Lebron a better player than 2018 Lebron or play better than him in the PS? I don't think so, even with 2020 Lebron being a better defender. But I think, a more stable infrastructure allowed for his metrics to pop and he comes out looking like a superior player in the RS and PS, then all the guys we are talking about here.
Showings, efforts, performances matter. It's not only down to quality. It's already arguable that 2018 James was a better player than 2001 Duncan. I mean the only reason many of you making a case for James is that you remember how well he did, lost a 51/8/8 game against a historic team, carried a bad team to the NBA Finals etc. But you don't remember Duncan having a 40/15/3 game in a 88-81 game and still losing. That game wasn't an any lesser performance than James' 51/8/8 game. Or Duncan dominating the Mavs despite losing his #2 scoring option in game 2.
If we're not recognising performance issues, it's just all about abilities, not present performances, I should just put 2005 Duncan in the top 10 without a care in the world as if he didn't get injured...