2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, PaulieWal, Quotatious, penbeast0

tone wone
Senior
Posts: 536
And1: 259
Joined: Mar 10, 2015

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#501 » by tone wone » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:00 am

falcolombardi wrote:sometimes i have wondered if aesthetic preference may influence what we consider optimal offensive basketball even if subtly

most people in the world prefer to watch a motion offense than a heliocentric one and that may (or may not) have some effect

i like helio offenses (depensing on how much much i like watching the Helio player in question) so i worry i may have the opposite issue and be biased towards "defending" heliocentrism as so many of my favorite players fit thst mold (paul, lebron, westbrook) and i sometimes feel get a unfair handicap because of it when people evaluate their impact

is like when i argue for a player i like more vs a player i like less, i have the worry in the back of my mind of how much my bias is influencing what i look at

so is possible that a majority or at least a big plurality of people want "motion ball" to be proven superior over "helio ball" because is more enjoyable, because is more about teamwork over individual ?

cause that is how i remember a lot of the hype and build up to warriors vs rockets in 2018

it seemed almost a war of ideologies: a duel of styles more than teams

the ultimate (kinda) helio/star/iso/foulhunt team of rockets vs the ultimate (kinda) motion/team work/ "joyball" warriors (2016 was a better example)

lots of emotional investment as so many people were worried rockets ball would become the way of the future after how they took the league by storm in comparable fashion to curry and warriors 2 years earlier (honestly rockets vs warriors may be one of the most important series in basketball history or at least it felt like it at the time)

then somethingh similar happened in 2020 (again with rockets lmao) with rockets microball vs lakers Bully ball (at least in hype, the actual series was a murder) as people worried the succes of the rockets would kill traditional centers and interior play for good, the amount of legitimate dread people had over the possibility of 2020 rockets succeding was somethingh i had never seen

so basically after all this tangent i went on, how do we account for our aesthetical biases clouding what we consider óptimal basketball theorically ?

Of course this stuff is largely based on personal preference. The Warriors get off to a hot start and suddenly we're transported back to 2016 having arguments on the merits of LeBron as offensive anchor and opining for everyone star to run around in circles all game like Steph. Its ridiculous.

:banghead: did they not watch Golden State last season. Or did that not count????
90sgoat wrote:Harden would struggle to score 20 in the 90s. I think he might have struggled to even score 15 to be honest.

^^^This is one silly ass board
Statlanta
General Manager
Posts: 8,183
And1: 5,786
Joined: Mar 06, 2016

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#502 » by Statlanta » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:01 am

falcolombardi wrote:so basically after all this tangent i went on, how do we account for our aesthetical biases clouding what we consider óptimal basketball theorically ?


I don't think there's optimal basketball. There's talent and there's different ways to utilize talent but coaches fit talent around their personnel. If the 2017 Warriors played like the 2010s Rockets they'd still be the favorites. If the 2017 Cavs played a more motion offense and had a European coach they'd still be underdogs.
Pachinko_ wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Serious question, what's the purpose of this thread?

Exactly the same as every other thread: talk hoops instead of working.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 18,462
And1: 10,461
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#503 » by Colbinii » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:45 pm

tone wone wrote:
Of course this stuff is largely based on personal preference. The Warriors get off to a hot start and suddenly we're transported back to 2016 having arguments on the merits of LeBron as offensive anchor and opining for everyone star to run around in circles all game like Steph. Its ridiculous.

:banghead: did they not watch Golden State last season. Or did that not count????


Last year is a data point for the Motion Offense. Last year shows that the motion offense in extremely difficult to create at an NBA level. Every single player in the rotation needs to understand the nuances of the offense, which in itself makes it less resilient than heliocentric offenses as it has a much lower floor and is much more susceptible to injuries to role players.

This doesn't even touch on the fact the Warriors have the #1 defense. How much of that is because of their offense?
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
Doctor MJ
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 45,381
And1: 14,346
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Cali
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#504 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:57 pm

Colbinii wrote:
tone wone wrote:
Of course this stuff is largely based on personal preference. The Warriors get off to a hot start and suddenly we're transported back to 2016 having arguments on the merits of LeBron as offensive anchor and opining for everyone star to run around in circles all game like Steph. Its ridiculous.

:banghead: did they not watch Golden State last season. Or did that not count????


Last year is a data point for the Motion Offense. Last year shows that the motion offense in extremely difficult to create at an NBA level. Every single player in the rotation needs to understand the nuances of the offense, which in itself makes it less resilient than heliocentric offenses as it has a much lower floor and is much more susceptible to injuries to role players.

This doesn't even touch on the fact the Warriors have the #1 defense. How much of that is because of their offense?

I have to disagree with the conclusion.

If a team can go from predictions of missing the playoffs to being the best team in the league in the first month of the season, that tells us it’s a lot more straight forward than that.

Now, it’s true that with Steph, Dray & Iggy you’re clearly not starting from scratch. But if we are talking about finding role players who can fit in, it’s clearly not as hard as the Oubres and Wiseman’s of the world would make us believe.

I’d emphasize again that depending on the type of talent that’s being scouted, different approaches are going to seem easier and harder, but if the Warriors can pick up minimum contract guys who can immediately thrive, there isn’t really any reason to conclude that one approach is inherently easier to learn than the other.

For every all-physical-talent, no-real-experience guy like Wiseman, how many guys out there are smart basketball players that just don’t get NBA scouts salivating?

I find the story of Payton II telling. Here you have a guy with clear physical talent, who grew up in basketball culture, but couldn’t break in to the NBA on any of the more common team strategies…but he’s looking great in GS. That’s not something to be dismissed lightly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey: With what's going on in the world, my fuse is shorter than it used to be, and it's leading my lose my cool and then go on self-imposed breaks from things (such as RealGM). Please try to keep it civil, and I'll be looking to do the same.
Doctor MJ
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 45,381
And1: 14,346
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Cali
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#505 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:01 pm

tone wone wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:sometimes i have wondered if aesthetic preference may influence what we consider optimal offensive basketball even if subtly

most people in the world prefer to watch a motion offense than a heliocentric one and that may (or may not) have some effect

i like helio offenses (depensing on how much much i like watching the Helio player in question) so i worry i may have the opposite issue and be biased towards "defending" heliocentrism as so many of my favorite players fit thst mold (paul, lebron, westbrook) and i sometimes feel get a unfair handicap because of it when people evaluate their impact

is like when i argue for a player i like more vs a player i like less, i have the worry in the back of my mind of how much my bias is influencing what i look at

so is possible that a majority or at least a big plurality of people want "motion ball" to be proven superior over "helio ball" because is more enjoyable, because is more about teamwork over individual ?

cause that is how i remember a lot of the hype and build up to warriors vs rockets in 2018

it seemed almost a war of ideologies: a duel of styles more than teams

the ultimate (kinda) helio/star/iso/foulhunt team of rockets vs the ultimate (kinda) motion/team work/ "joyball" warriors (2016 was a better example)

lots of emotional investment as so many people were worried rockets ball would become the way of the future after how they took the league by storm in comparable fashion to curry and warriors 2 years earlier (honestly rockets vs warriors may be one of the most important series in basketball history or at least it felt like it at the time)

then somethingh similar happened in 2020 (again with rockets lmao) with rockets microball vs lakers Bully ball (at least in hype, the actual series was a murder) as people worried the succes of the rockets would kill traditional centers and interior play for good, the amount of legitimate dread people had over the possibility of 2020 rockets succeding was somethingh i had never seen

so basically after all this tangent i went on, how do we account for our aesthetical biases clouding what we consider óptimal basketball theorically ?

Of course this stuff is largely based on personal preference. The Warriors get off to a hot start and suddenly we're transported back to 2016 having arguments on the merits of LeBron as offensive anchor and opining for everyone star to run around in circles all game like Steph. Its ridiculous.

:banghead: did they not watch Golden State last season. Or did that not count????

Those of us who were high in the Warriors before the season watched the Warriors last year thrive once they started trying to win rather than focus on player development.

No one predicted they’d be this good this fast, but I have to say it’s frustrating to hear people who predicted 39 wins this year - when the team was playing far better than that to end the year - now talk as if we’re the ones who didn’t pay attention last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey: With what's going on in the world, my fuse is shorter than it used to be, and it's leading my lose my cool and then go on self-imposed breaks from things (such as RealGM). Please try to keep it civil, and I'll be looking to do the same.
Doctor MJ
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 45,381
And1: 14,346
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Cali
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#506 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:19 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:If you're agreeing with me, great, if not, what point are you trying to make?


I wasn't trying to make a point as I was at work, didn't want to work, and wanted to mindlessly blabber into an abyss while taking a 15 minute break from work.

Doctor MJ wrote:
I agree, and Bosh was a better role player than any other role player LeBron has played with. Star players tend to figure things out and figure out how to win.


I disagree with the idea that this is just normal for stars to learn to do. History is littered with would-be super-teams that forever remain less than the sum of their parts, and we're talking about the Lakers right now because that's how they are right now.

Are you suggesting that it's only a matter of time before Westbrook figures out how to play with LeBron & AD and then they'll win championships? If so, well, I'd call that pretty bold.


Westbrook isn't a star. He isn't intelligent on the basketball court. He isn't moldable or diverse. He isn't someone you add to a team to make a team improve.

Westbrook is, without a doubt, the most difficult player to fit next to any championship aspiring team. We saw it in Houston and we see it now in LA.

If I were adding a player to a team of talent, both Kevin Love and Chris Bosh rank significantly higher than Russell Westbrook.

The only player remotely close to Westbrook that the Warriors attempted to acquire was D'Angelo Russell and they quickly shipped him out after realizing the mistake 10 games later.


Does it end all arguments pertaining to heliocentrism and motion offense? No.


Nope, but we have data points for Nash, Magic, Paul and Doncic-led offensives, all of which fall into the heliocentrism category, suggesting it has historically been easier to build around these players compared to the two comparable "Motion Offenses" led by Curry and Miller.

Obviously if Durant rips off a dynastic run in Brooklyn that will loom large over everything we're talking about.

However Durant doesn't represent an extreme style of team basketball like LeBron & Steph do. Partly that's because he's more of an individually-minded player. Partly that's because he's changed teams a couple of times and changed how he's played some when he's done that.

In that sense, if Durant ends up being seen as the best player of this age, it's effect will likely be to conclude that team strategy doesn't really matter, because in the end it's just about finding a good enough scorer. This will then further the argument from Jordanites that not only is the GOAT, but that it really didn't matter how the Bulls played when they won, because he'd have ended up winning regardless.


You're right but I personally hold the likes of "Player who creates the system" in higher regard than "Player who simply does his thing". The first group being the afformentioned names above (Magic, Nash, Miller, Curry, Paul, LeBron) and the latter being the Durants and Jordans of the world.

What I could be underrating is how Durant and Jordan can easily co-exist and operate in systems functioning around "Lesser players".

An interesting player here who I have a difficult time pegging into my own categories is Bird, as he happens to enhance the lesser systems but also scales well in the "Player driven systems" of the first group.

So wanted to say:

As folks here now, I’m a HUGE Nash guy and have been championing him on discussions here for 16 years. I’m certainly not saying that the right way to play Nash is to play him off-ball.

And the same is true for LeBron and Magic and many other top tier offensive players.

What I find so enticing about Reggie-Steph ball is the fact that you can play players like that with more on-ball guys.

I think you can see this most easily with Jokic who ironically creates the most harmonious analogy to the Copernican mode of the solar system.

With Jokic, he looks to establish himself in the interior, and the other players cut around him like orbiting planets.

Jokic and Curry would be dynamite together, and the truth is similar with any high IQ hello, so I don’t really see these things are either/or.

I would agree with the assessment that there is no one optimal strategy, that it depends on the talent you have access to in your roster, but want I’d advocate for with Curry is less about literally throwing out all other strategies of play, and more about recognizing that there’s effectively a new position that basically every team should be scouting for and looking to add into the mix.

I’d tend to call that position “rover”, but also think “striker” works well. It’s also analogous to the modern invention of the wide receiver in American football, where in that case “modern” means the 1930s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey: With what's going on in the world, my fuse is shorter than it used to be, and it's leading my lose my cool and then go on self-imposed breaks from things (such as RealGM). Please try to keep it civil, and I'll be looking to do the same.
parsnips33
Analyst
Posts: 3,628
And1: 1,152
Joined: Sep 01, 2014
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#507 » by parsnips33 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:26 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
tone wone wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:sometimes i have wondered if aesthetic preference may influence what we consider optimal offensive basketball even if subtly

most people in the world prefer to watch a motion offense than a heliocentric one and that may (or may not) have some effect

i like helio offenses (depensing on how much much i like watching the Helio player in question) so i worry i may have the opposite issue and be biased towards "defending" heliocentrism as so many of my favorite players fit thst mold (paul, lebron, westbrook) and i sometimes feel get a unfair handicap because of it when people evaluate their impact

is like when i argue for a player i like more vs a player i like less, i have the worry in the back of my mind of how much my bias is influencing what i look at

so is possible that a majority or at least a big plurality of people want "motion ball" to be proven superior over "helio ball" because is more enjoyable, because is more about teamwork over individual ?

cause that is how i remember a lot of the hype and build up to warriors vs rockets in 2018

it seemed almost a war of ideologies: a duel of styles more than teams

the ultimate (kinda) helio/star/iso/foulhunt team of rockets vs the ultimate (kinda) motion/team work/ "joyball" warriors (2016 was a better example)

lots of emotional investment as so many people were worried rockets ball would become the way of the future after how they took the league by storm in comparable fashion to curry and warriors 2 years earlier (honestly rockets vs warriors may be one of the most important series in basketball history or at least it felt like it at the time)

then somethingh similar happened in 2020 (again with rockets lmao) with rockets microball vs lakers Bully ball (at least in hype, the actual series was a murder) as people worried the succes of the rockets would kill traditional centers and interior play for good, the amount of legitimate dread people had over the possibility of 2020 rockets succeding was somethingh i had never seen

so basically after all this tangent i went on, how do we account for our aesthetical biases clouding what we consider óptimal basketball theorically ?

Of course this stuff is largely based on personal preference. The Warriors get off to a hot start and suddenly we're transported back to 2016 having arguments on the merits of LeBron as offensive anchor and opining for everyone star to run around in circles all game like Steph. Its ridiculous.

:banghead: did they not watch Golden State last season. Or did that not count????

Those of us who were high in the Warriors before the season watched the Warriors last year thrive once they started trying to win rather than focus on player development.

No one predicted they’d be this good this fast, but I have to say it’s frustrating to hear people who predicted 39 wins this year - when the team was playing far better than that to end the year - now talk as if we’re the ones who didn’t pay attention last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Finished the season 15-5 last year, starting the season 15-2 this year. They are better this year, but the final stretch of last year they were quite good. And sure a 20 game stretch of a season could be fluky, but they are replicating that success this season with some tweaks around the edge of the roster and no major acquisitions.
parsnips33
Analyst
Posts: 3,628
And1: 1,152
Joined: Sep 01, 2014
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#508 » by parsnips33 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:24 pm

Something interesting to be said for comparing Ben Simmons' situation to John Wall's situation this season
User avatar
feyki
Starter
Posts: 2,230
And1: 330
Joined: Aug 08, 2016
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#509 » by feyki » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:51 am

Butler playing with +26 net rating on individual offensive/defensive rating. This is the highest I've seen from an offensive star. Durant(17),Jordan(96) and Lebron(13) had +24. +26 is the first.
Image
“The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.”
User avatar
eminence
RealGM
Posts: 10,773
And1: 6,699
Joined: Mar 07, 2015
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#510 » by eminence » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:59 pm

feyki wrote:Butler playing with +26 net rating on individual offensive/defensive rating. This is the highest I've seen from an offensive star. Durant(17),Jordan(96) and Lebron(13) had +24. +26 is the first.


I think CP3 got up to +25.

And I think we may have jinxed the Bulls.
'17-'18 APBR Win Projections Champion (1st of 20)
'18-'19 5th of 18
'19-'20 2nd of 17
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,354
And1: 16,284
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#511 » by yoyoboy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:55 pm

Cavs are 9-10 now (lost 5 straight since Mobley went out if you count the Boston game he left early) but I’m honestly pretty proud of this team regardless. Tons of injuries this year, including Sexton out for the year, Love missing 2 weeks, Lauri missing 2 weeks, Cedi missing a couple games, Mobley at 4 missed now, Allen missing 3 games, Garland missing 2 games, and Okoro missing 7 games. And by SOS indexes, the Cavs have played by far the hardest schedule in the league so far, including a murderer’s row without Mobley of Brooklyn, Golden State, Brooklyn, and Phoenix recently. But the team seems to compete until the end every night. It’s been a fun season to watch.
User avatar
Jaivl
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,408
And1: 4,697
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
Location: Lugo, Spain
Contact:
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#512 » by Jaivl » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:40 pm

<- This man will do that to your team.

yoyoboy wrote:Cavs are 9-10 now (lost 5 straight since Mobley went out if you count the Boston game he left early) but I’m honestly pretty proud of this team regardless. Tons of injuries this year, including Sexton out for the year, Love missing 2 weeks, Lauri missing 2 weeks, Cedi missing a couple games, Mobley at 4 missed now, Allen missing 3 games, Garland missing 2 games, and Okoro missing 7 games. And by SOS indexes, the Cavs have played by far the hardest schedule in the league so far, including a murderer’s row without Mobley of Brooklyn, Golden State, Brooklyn, and Phoenix recently. But the team seems to compete until the end every night. It’s been a fun season to watch.
Maf wrote:I'd undestand if anyone had KG outside top ten PF's. Having him top five all-time? Often I jokingly rank Kyle Korver as the GOAT but I never try to fake serious discussion about it.

ShawnKemp96 wrote:Infact he made a lot more steals than the statisticians think.
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,354
And1: 16,284
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#513 » by yoyoboy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:54 pm

Jaivl wrote:<- This man will do that to your team.

Rubio has been the 2nd biggest difference maker this year behind Mobley, no question about it. Since the Knicks game his shot has unfortunately been missing, but he’s still making an impact out there.
The-Power
Head Coach
Posts: 7,134
And1: 6,192
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#514 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:55 pm

yoyoboy wrote:...

I'm really happy for Cavs fans, and you in particular, that the team brings you joy this year and you can see the young players grow into what hopefully will turn out to be a nice core for the future. You deserve it!
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,354
And1: 16,284
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#515 » by yoyoboy » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:15 pm

The-Power wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:...

I'm really happy for Cavs fans, and you in particular, that the team brings you joy this year and you can see the young players grow into what hopefully will turn out to be a nice core for the future. You deserve it!

Thanks man! Crazy to see we’ve gone through a full rebuild and only now are starting to make our way back up towards getting back into the playoff race while you guys are over here still competing with the same core since our Finals matchups started years ago. Steph really looks like he’s gonna follow that John Stockton path of longevity and Dray will probably be at the very least an impact monster come playoffs until near retirement. Gonna be interesting to see how Klay looks when he comes back, but I actually don’t think as much rides on him looking like Klay as a lot of people think in order for GS to win it all.

I think having a team that actually likes each other is a huge contributor to what makes a team fun to watch and successful on the court. That’s a department that Golden State has clearly done well in over the year, and it’s nice to see this Cavs team actually really seems to like each other as well, especially Garland and Mobley, And I think it’s part of the reason why this team has given such good effort in every game this season, always either battling their way back into games or fighting until the end, even if a real contender like the Warriors eventually pulls away in the closing minutes. Rubio is quickly proving to be an awesome guy for veteran leadership, looking at his career, as well. Edwards saying he’s the best leader he’s ever been around, Rubio helping turn around that Suns team, and now it seems like he’s a critical addition helping the Cavs make some real progress this year.

I do still think it’s going to be hard, even with internal development, for this team to take that next step. We clearly need a good wing, but Cleveland isn’t a destination location, we probably won’t finish in the bottom 5 this year unless injuries take over, and the roster lacks tradable assets since Okoro has looked so bad, Sexton’s injury and pending contraction extension leave him with little value, and our pick this year might be that great in a draft class that doesn’t seem to be that deep (yet) anyways.
The-Power
Head Coach
Posts: 7,134
And1: 6,192
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#516 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:40 pm

yoyoboy wrote:I do still think it’s going to be hard, even with internal development, for this team to take that next step. We clearly need a good wing, but Cleveland isn’t a destination location, we probably won’t finish in the bottom 5 this year unless injuries take over, and the roster lacks tradable assets since Okoro has looked so bad, Sexton’s injury and pending contraction extension leave him with little value, and our pick this year might be that great in a draft class that doesn’t seem to be that deep (yet) anyways.

Yeah, I can see that and this draft does indeed seem like it's very short on high-end wings. I'd say Jaden Ivey would be an amazing fit next to Garland, but he'd be a 2 and not a 3 in such a line-up – not sure if that's what you'd be looking for. But there seems to be a clear path to being a playoff team again very soon, and I think that's a great place to be in with such a young team even if you don't have all the pieces together yet.
falcolombardi
Starter
Posts: 2,032
And1: 1,364
Joined: Apr 13, 2021
       

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#517 » by falcolombardi » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:18 pm

i watched the 2001 finals game 1 to get a read on iverson, a player i never watched much of, instead was blown away by shaq

-the offensive rebounding was insane, both in gettinf them and how much resoreces teams spent boxing him out even before the shot went up

the post ups consistently had the paint collapsing but also creating space -in the paint-, seriously, every time shaq stood outside the paint in post up or offensive board position his man clung to him -without the ball- creatimg some open paths to the rim -as a interior player-

the spacing generated by all this is absolutely insane, it goes well beyond kicking the ball out of double teams

he got a couple easy baskets by running down the court before his man, like some 7'1 ronnie brewer

he drove and spinned on mutombo from the 3 point line almost like giannis (a bit slower but still insane) and scored (thanks to a phantom foul on mutombo block but still crazy play)

and he backed down mutombo easily whenever he decided to do so , seemed like stamina was the only thingh preventing from getting easy shots on even dikembe every play

every play you could see how he affecred the defense just with his presence, imo even more impactful than someone like dirk or curry with that

the more i watch of him the more i think he may be the best offensive player ever at his peak or close to it
User avatar
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 52,583
And1: 13,170
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#518 » by Dr Positivity » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:07 am

Trent Jr is pretty impressive - potential all-star imo
FREEDOM RULES
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 15,178
And1: 10,503
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#519 » by GSP » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:09 am

Dr Positivity wrote:Trent Jr is pretty impressive - potential all-star imo


How is he better than Og, Siakam or Fvv? Raps arent good enough to have more than 1 allstar
User avatar
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 52,583
And1: 13,170
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: 2021-22 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#520 » by Dr Positivity » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:27 am

GSP wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Trent Jr is pretty impressive - potential all-star imo


How is he better than Og, Siakam or Fvv? Raps arent good enough to have more than 1 allstar


I meant in the future not necessarily this year. FVV is most deserving Raptor this year.
FREEDOM RULES

Return to Player Comparisons