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I think he would be #1 but I could see potential arguments for Curry, Jokic and Giannis.

His skill set would be much better appreciated in today's time, so I would think he would be #1.

In conversation for the best player, but far from a given. Curry and Jokic have ATG seasons so far as well and Giannis is also a serious competition.

Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Name 10 players better than him in the league right now.

You also seem to miss the big change this season that allows defenders to have higher impact.

70sFan wrote:

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Name 10 players better than him in the league right now.

You also seem to miss the big change this season that allows defenders to have higher impact.

Curry,Durant,Jokic,Doncic,Kawhi,AD,Giannis,Lebron?,Harden?; he's not top 5.

Big improve , %55 TS and %13 TOV% .

feyki wrote:

70sFan wrote:

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Name 10 players better than him in the league right now.

You also seem to miss the big change this season that allows defenders to have higher impact.

Curry,Durant,Jokic,Doncic,Kawhi,AD,Giannis,Lebron?,Harden?; he's not top 5.

Big improve , %55 TS and %13 TOV% .

Harden? What's his case this season? Doncic also doesn't have strong season so far and it's not like he ever reached prime KG level. Kawhi doesn't even play . AD has been pretty mediocre, he's not on prime KG level.

You vastly underrate peak Garnett if you think that Doncic, Harden, AD or Kawhi are even close to his level.

55 TS% is the worst since 2016 and it's clearly caused by new rules, not by a cold streak.

Top 5 definitely:
Durant
GIannis
Jokic
Garnett
Lebron




Garnett would be like Davis with actual heart and plays defense and actual playmaking capabilities. I can see his scoring be in around 27 to 28 ppg while averaging 7-8 assists per game and 11-13 rebounds per game. With solid shooting %s of 52-55%

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Why would his offensive impact be an issue today? I for one think that KG would be pretty much perfect for the modern game (this sentiment is corroborated by the way officiating is trending this season). I imagine a defender whose even better than peak Draymond in this era and an offensive game on the level or better than AD at his best. This is easily a best player in the world candidate with the likes of Steph and Jokic.


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Peak KG is arguably #1 in any season ever.

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Garnett was the best player in the league at his peak when guys like Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Kobe, Tmac, and many others were in their primes still. You're definitely selling him short by labeling him a merely top 10 guy.

I'm confident he'd be the best defender in the league today, and i find it strange you question his offensive impact considering how well his shooting and passing would fit in today's small ball stuff. There's no reasonable way he's any lower than 4 or 5.

KG was a career 45% shooter from 16-3P (45% in 2004 as well) and he took almost a third of his shots from that range. So (a) he had the volume to corroborate the efficiency, and (b) he took too many of those shots because of era.

He's the first player I think of when I think of long 2s right inside of the 3pt line. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if he played in today's game he'd have developed a 3PT shot instead of just taking long 2s. And I think his efficiency would take a considerable leap assuming he didn't continue taking 32% of his shots from 16-3P as he did in 2004.

More I think about it more I think he'd be the best in the league (the defense goes without saying)

eminence wrote:Peak KG is arguably #1 in any season ever.

Amen

Somewhere in that group with Giannis, Curry, and Jokic probably. He'd still be clearly the worst offensive player of the bunch and while I believe he'd be better defensively I'm not sure by enough.

My instinct is to say he'd be 4th behind those 3 competing with guys like KD, Lebron and Kawhi.

I think Durant, Giannis, Curry and Jokic have strong cases for better regular season impact. In the playoffs, you can add LeBron to the list. If he wasn't injured, Kawhi also makes a great case. So I'd say somewhere around #5-7 at the highest and there's a few others like Harden, Luka, etc with the ability to step up their game by the end of the season and play like MVP candidates. Which seems reasonable to me as a DPOY candidate who is best as a 2nd option on offense. KG's numbers on the Wolves are quite inflated considering he never had any playoff success there and didn't even make the playoffs in many years. I don't think he is as much of a floor raiser as some think he is. I think the aforementioned players are all better floor raisers. He's basically a slightly better AD (though AD is better in some respects) and we all see how well AD performs without LeBron to carry him. KG never had a good longball which is more important than ever for forwards, and peak KG was not big enough to play center full time.

Texas Chuck wrote:Somewhere in that group with Giannis, Curry, and Jokic probably. He'd still be clearly the worst offensive player of the bunch and while I believe he'd be better defensively I'm not sure by enough.

My instinct is to say he'd be 4th behind those 3 competing with guys like KD, Lebron and Kawhi.

Clearly worse than Giannis on offense?


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Max123 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Somewhere in that group with Giannis, Curry, and Jokic probably. He'd still be clearly the worst offensive player of the bunch and while I believe he'd be better defensively I'm not sure by enough.

My instinct is to say he'd be 4th behind those 3 competing with guys like KD, Lebron and Kawhi.

Clearly worse than Giannis on offense?


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Uh yeah. Giannis is a breathtakingly good scorer and while not quite the passer KG is, because he's such a significantly more dangerous scorer he's able to use that attention to create just as much offense for teammates as KG could. I remain confused how in 2021 people don't realize just how great an offensive player Giannis is.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Max123 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Somewhere in that group with Giannis, Curry, and Jokic probably. He'd still be clearly the worst offensive player of the bunch and while I believe he'd be better defensively I'm not sure by enough.

My instinct is to say he'd be 4th behind those 3 competing with guys like KD, Lebron and Kawhi.

Clearly worse than Giannis on offense?


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Uh yeah. Giannis is a breathtakingly good scorer and while not quite the passer KG is, because he's such a significantly more dangerous scorer he's able to use that attention to create just as much offense for teammates as KG could. I remain confused how in 2021 people don't realize just how great an offensive player Giannis is.

Well for one thing I believe his team offenses haven’t been very good in the playoffs to this date.

Edit: I want to make it clear that I still think Giannis is a very good offensive player but I don’t think he is clearly better. I still think, especially when considering performance against good-great defenses in the playoffs, that Garnett’s more versatile playstyle and ability to slide between 1-2 option more fluidly gives him a solid argument. Imagine peak Garnett playing with modern spacing. He is extending his range to the three for sure which actually makes a huge difference for him considering his shot charts. I think he could also be a pick-and-roll/pop and hand-off guy who can function as a centerpiece on a modern offense (kinda like Jokic does with the Nuggets but not as good).

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70sFan wrote:

feyki wrote:

70sFan wrote:Name 10 players better than him in the league right now.

You also seem to miss the big change this season that allows defenders to have higher impact.

Curry,Durant,Jokic,Doncic,Kawhi,AD,Giannis,Lebron?,Harden?; he's not top 5.

Big improve , %55 TS and %13 TOV% .

Harden? What's his case this season? Doncic also doesn't have strong season so far and it's not like he ever reached prime KG level. Kawhi doesn't even play . AD has been pretty mediocre, he's not on prime KG level.

You vastly underrate peak Garnett if you think that Doncic, Harden, AD or Kawhi are even close to his level.

55 TS% is the worst since 2016 and it's clearly caused by new rules, not by a cold streak.

Harden for the 2021. Kawhi, too.

You're just ignoring the inflation of offence by %15 per 100 poss. Doncic played with 41 PP100, 12,5 AP100 with +3,5 rOrtg in the 20/21 two year stretch and KG played with 32,5 PP100, 7,5 AP100 with +9,5 rOrtg for the two year stretch(04/05); %28 higher volume scoring, %66 higher playmaking load in Doncic's case and %6 offensive efficiency in KG's case. Is this comparable even with half of the Doncic's margin over the average?

To the AD point, he had injury issues, no doubt. But we are talking about the level of play. He played with 34 points in b2b games in the last playoffs; one with +14 rTS and +40 rOrtg, another with +4 rTS and +5 rOrtg. KG had only 6 30+ points games in his playoffs careers:

30 against Kings +3 rTS, +12 rOrtg
32 against Kings +5 rTS, +7 rOrtg
30 against LA +2 rTS, +20 rOrtg
35 against LA +22 rTS, +44 rOrtg( only this is better than AD's best in the last two years)
33 against LA -1 rTS, -7 rOrtg
31 against Mavs +5 rTS, +15 rOrtg

. He only matches with one game out of top 10 talk AD's best game in his entire playoffs career. And others five games about the equal with AD's second best game. And that was only 3 game available AD.

Max123 wrote:

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Why would his offensive impact be an issue today? I for one think that KG would be pretty much perfect for the modern game (this sentiment is corroborated by the way officiating is trending this season). I imagine a defender whose even better than peak Draymond in this era and an offensive game on the level or better than AD at his best. This is easily a best player in the world candidate with the likes of Steph and Jokic.


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He was clearly worse than AD even it's adjusted, offensively. AD also was as good as Draymond, defensively. But he was not easily the best player, he was not even close to Lebron/Harden/Doncic/Curry in todays offence orient game.

No-more-rings wrote:

feyki wrote:Top 10 at best, his offensive impact is issue in todays game.

Garnett was the best player in the league at his peak when guys like Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Kobe, Tmac, and many others were in their primes still. You're definitely selling him short by labeling him a merely top 10 guy.

I'm confident he'd be the best defender in the league today, and i find it strange you question his offensive impact considering how well his shooting and passing would fit in today's small ball stuff. There's no reasonable way he's any lower than 4 or 5.

Duncan was not his peak, first. Shaq, also. And he was not better than offensive forces like Nash,Kobe,Dirk after the rule change. Even the offence pie in the game now much higher than mid 00's.