LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ?

[Mazter]

I guess people were right, this season proves LeBron is not a pure scorer. I mean, he is cassually averaging 29.1 at 37 because of the situation at hand. That is +2.1 above his career average. As a comparison, the rest of the guys averaging at least 20 before 37:

Code: Select all

Name          <37    at37    Diff
Lebron        27.0   29.1    +2.1
Karl          26.0   23.2    -2.8
Kareem        26.9   22.0    -4.9
Dirk          22.2   18.3    -3.9
Wilkins       25.8   18.2    -7.6
Kobe          25.4   17.6    -7.8
Havlicek      21.1   16.1    -6.0
Duncan        20.2   15.1    -5.1
DWade         22.5   15.0    -7.5
Ewing         23.3   15.0    -8.3
Melo          23.0   13.2    -9.8
Hayes         22.7   12.9    -9.8
Shaq          24.7   12.0   -12.7
Pierce        21.3   11.9   -10.4
Baylor        27.5   11.8   -15.8
Allen         20.0   10.9    -9.1
Hakeem        23.6   10.3   -13.3
English       22.3    9.7   -12.6
DRob          21.9    8.5   -13.4
Moses         21.1    5.3   -15.8


He always just scored what he thought was needed. Imaging what his career average would have been if scoring would have actually been a thing for him.

[Fadeaway_J]

I'm convinced that Russ drinks some of his child's baby formula before games.

Westbrook has not changed any from the previous year, but yet he gets all the criticize not written the last year.

What people were expecting by Westbrook?

I am just having a good laugh. I would say he has performed around my expectations for him this year.

So would I, but that's why I hated the trade to begin with.

[zimpy27]

? Where is this coming from? No he doesn't literally seems to be the least adaptable star of all time.

I did a spittake after reading that. Where is this excessive leniency for Westbrook coming from? It's not like he has shown some extra gear that makes it worth doing so much just to get him above neutral impact.

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Yeah I probably am an optimistic poster.

But I see myself different from others because of two things:
- I don't see single players as a reason a team is poor, I see it as a roster construction issue. This roster has 3 big contracts as it's core and needs other pieces that make up the deficits of that core.
- I don't think Westbrook has much value in trade (happy to be proven wrong) since he's older and expensive. I don't see a motive for a team to take him. Therefore it doesn't make sense to focus on this idea of being rid of him. Need to look at the problem to be able to solve it. Some pieces are moveable and some are not. Why focus on the impossible?

I also don't think a cold streak shooting should negate the positives of such low turnovers. It's insane how Westbrook has just dropped his TO numbers. That should be celebrated IMO. Even with the cold streak Westbrook has had best +/- of starters in 3 of last 4 games. So I think there's a lot to be optimistic about.

[zimpy27]

Lakers per 100 comparison of this season vs championship season in 19-20



Blue is Laker stats comparison between 19-20 and 21-22
Yellow is Laker opponent stats comparison between 19-20 and 21-22
Green is the net difference of Lakers stats vs opponent stats and also displayed as % to highlight the issues proportionally.

- Main issue is OREB, difference between Lakers and Opponent is down 33%. That's giving opponent 3.3 more possessions per 100.
- Blocks are also an issue, Lakers getting blocked more and making less blocks
- Steals and TOs are also down. The combination with OREB difference means that Laker opponents are getting more possessions and Lakers are getting less..
- 2PA is down and so is FTA

It all points to Lakers lack of size being the main issue based on these stats.
Problem is Lakers have ben playing small ball on purpose to cover for limitations on offense as their bigger players aren't dynamic (Howard/Jordan)

Lakers issues would be solved with bigger wings that can defend but also don't hurt them offensively. AD being back will help a lot.
Lakers lineup: Westbrook, Monk, 6'6+ 3+D wing, LeBron, Davis -- Bradley, Reaves, Johnson/Ariza, Melo, Howard

The most logical solution is to trade Nunn+THT for a starting SF. I believe Lakers see this problem too and it's the reason they are targeting Jerami Grant but he's not the right target.

[donnieme]

? Where is this coming from? No he doesn't literally seems to be the least adaptable star of all time.

I did a spittake after reading that. Where is this excessive leniency for Westbrook coming from? It's not like he has shown some extra gear that makes it worth doing so much just to get him above neutral impact.

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[LukaTheGOAT]

You can tell the the heavy minutes this season for Bron are adding up because the bald spot on his head keeps getting bigger

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

Ad is fifth lol

[Fadeaway_J]

Read on Twitter

Ad is fifth lol

Wiggins third

[colts18]

You can tell the the heavy minutes this season for Bron are adding up because the bald spot on his head keeps getting bigger

I thought he got his hair taken care of years ago. His bald is so noticeable at this point.

[falcolombardi]

I did a spittake after reading that. Where is this excessive leniency for Westbrook coming from? It's not like he has shown some extra gear that makes it worth doing so much just to get him above neutral impact.

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

westbrook was actually legit good once, reputations last a long time

his prime led to some elite teams in 2016 and 2013 as one of two stars surrounded by decent role players (and westbrook advanced stats showed con as arguably more important to those thunder teams than durant)

westbrook was great... once, he is still kinda living off thst reputation and i say this as a okc fan

[falcolombardi]

I guess people were right, this season proves LeBron is not a pure scorer. I mean, he is cassually averaging 29.1 at 37 because of the situation at hand. That is +2.1 above his career average. As a comparison, the rest of the guys averaging at least 20 before 37:

Code: Select all

Name          <37    at37    Diff
Lebron        27.0   29.1    +2.1
Karl          26.0   23.2    -2.8
Kareem        26.9   22.0    -4.9
Dirk          22.2   18.3    -3.9
Wilkins       25.8   18.2    -7.6
Kobe          25.4   17.6    -7.8
Havlicek      21.1   16.1    -6.0
Duncan        20.2   15.1    -5.1
DWade         22.5   15.0    -7.5
Ewing         23.3   15.0    -8.3
Melo          23.0   13.2    -9.8
Hayes         22.7   12.9    -9.8
Shaq          24.7   12.0   -12.7
Pierce        21.3   11.9   -10.4
Baylor        27.5   11.8   -15.8
Allen         20.0   10.9    -9.1
Hakeem        23.6   10.3   -13.3
English       22.3    9.7   -12.6
DRob          21.9    8.5   -13.4
Moses         21.1    5.3   -15.8


He always just scored what he thought was needed. Imaging what his career average would have been if scoring would have actually been a thing for him.

i said the other day that if lebron was obsessed with winning scoring titles like jordan was (based on the jordan rules here it seems he really worried Phil Jackson system would make him miss on scoring titles) he could have matches or at least approaches jordan volume in comparable efficiency

that his best volume scoring seasons came at 21 and 37 kinda point to that

i wonder how much higher people would be on him of he decided to score 30 a game every year and playmake less, probably would be criticized for it lol

[donnieme]

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

westbrook was actually legit good once, reputations last a long time

his prime led to some elite teams in 2016 and 2013 as one of two stars surrounded by decent role players (and westbrook advanced stats showed con as arguably more important to those thunder teams than durant)

westbrook was great... once, he is still kinda living off thst reputation and i say this as a okc fan

Well I'm most definitely talking about his recent career arc. I know he was good once. As for stats no he was never more important than KD. I've seen all the various plus minus and boxscore derivatives that put him higher than KD. It's kind of obvious Westbrook is going to overshadow KD in boxscore derived stats if they shared the floor for much of the game.

When two players play big overlapping minutes the boxscore derived plus minus conjunction stats doesn't know where the impact is coming from. In fact the one with the fuller boxscore will almost always come out top if they were on the floor together. There are a lot of superior players Westbrook would post higher boxscores derivative if they played together thanks to his activity. You have to see them yourself and when we watched them play together there was never any doubt who the better player was. It wasn't even as close as people say. There has never been a time or place teams were more worried about Westbrook. Even back then he got occasionally flamed for selling games with poor choices. For some reason he just got protected by the team and never reprimanded. He didn't develop low bbiq in 2021 or 22, he didn't just get dumber. It was present from day 1.

[falcolombardi]

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

westbrook was actually legit good once, reputations last a long time

his prime led to some elite teams in 2016 and 2013 as one of two stars surrounded by decent role players (and westbrook advanced stats showed con as arguably more important to those thunder teams than durant)

westbrook was great... once, he is still kinda living off thst reputation and i say this as a okc fan

Well I'm most definitely talking about his recent career arc. I know he was good once. As for stats no he was never more important than KD. I've seen all the various plus minus and boxscore derivatives that put him higher than KD. It's kind of obvious Westbrook is going to overshadow KD in boxscore derived stats if they shared the floor for much of the game.

When two players play big overlapping minutes the boxscore derived plus minus conjunction stats doesn't know where the impact is coming from. In fact the one with the fuller boxscore will almost always come out top if they were on the floor together. You have to see them yourself and when we watched them play together there was never any doubt who the better player was. It wasn't even as close as people say. There has never been a time or place teams were more worried about Westbrook. Even back then he got occasionally flamed for selling games with poor choices. For some reason he just got protected by the team and never reprimanded. He didn't develop low bbiq in 2021 or 22. It was present from day 1.

westbrook and dursnt in the 13-16 thunder are kind of a case study in the value of playmaking vs scoring

yes, durant was way more efficient, but westbrook created much more

thunder needed every bit of creatión by westbrook and every bit of efficient scoring by durant to lift that defense/rebounding minded team to be a elite offense

westbrook was extremely flawed back then, but his athletism was overwhelming and made up for that and then some

[donnieme]

westbrook was actually legit good once, reputations last a long time

his prime led to some elite teams in 2016 and 2013 as one of two stars surrounded by decent role players (and westbrook advanced stats showed con as arguably more important to those thunder teams than durant)

westbrook was great... once, he is still kinda living off thst reputation and i say this as a okc fan

Well I'm most definitely talking about his recent career arc. I know he was good once. As for stats no he was never more important than KD. I've seen all the various plus minus and boxscore derivatives that put him higher than KD. It's kind of obvious Westbrook is going to overshadow KD in boxscore derived stats if they shared the floor for much of the game.

When two players play big overlapping minutes the boxscore derived plus minus conjunction stats doesn't know where the impact is coming from. In fact the one with the fuller boxscore will almost always come out top if they were on the floor together. You have to see them yourself and when we watched them play together there was never any doubt who the better player was. It wasn't even as close as people say. There has never been a time or place teams were more worried about Westbrook. Even back then he got occasionally flamed for selling games with poor choices. For some reason he just got protected by the team and never reprimanded. He didn't develop low bbiq in 2021 or 22. It was present from day 1.

westbrook and dursnt in the 13-16 thunder are kind of a case study in the value of playmaking vs scoring

yes, durant was way more efficient, but westbrook created much more

thunder needed every bit of creatión by westbrook and every bit of efficient scoring by durant to lift that defense/rebounding minded team to be a elite offense

westbrook was extremely flawed back then, but his athletism was overwhelming and made up for that and then some

I know he was good and I know how good he was especially in his MVP year. I'm not even doubting his regular season greatness. You might even have been the best team on paper in 16. I thought Iggy was tripping when he said it but I go back to old games and realise you had Ibaka and Adams flanking Westbrook and KD. You should absolutely have beaten them but you could only go as far as KD could. If KD choked OKC choked because Westbrook sure as hell wasn't going to overcome a d defense like that. Westbrook was the engine of the offense, amazing horsepower but it was an engine prone to stalling.

[zimpy27]

I did a spittake after reading that. Where is this excessive leniency for Westbrook coming from? It's not like he has shown some extra gear that makes it worth doing so much just to get him above neutral impact.

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

The problem with your line of thinking is just patience. You want Westbrook to fill the role of roleplayers and want him to have made that transition in 40 games on a team with the 2nd most injuries and the most changing starting rotation of all teams in the league.

THT has been with the team for 2 years prior to this one, we knew his game before this season started and it hasn't changed until the last couple weeks when he's taking up a bigger hustle role with some scoring here and there. Drummond was good in his role.

Just last season Westbrook had a better PIPM and LEBRON number than his teammate in Beal. The impact player of Westbrook is still there, Lakers just need to find a way that it suits their team.

Kuzma was not good and is still not good. KCP was good. Harrell was going anyway. Pick 22 will probably be a nice player eventually. It wasn't all that much that was given for Westbrook. He hasn't shot well recently but he's still a dangerous player.

Importantly, Lakers are locked in with him. If you are the complaining type then feel free to complain but don't get frustrated with me if I want to look for actual realistic solutions to the Lakers problems.

[falcolombardi]

Well I'm most definitely talking about his recent career arc. I know he was good once. As for stats no he was never more important than KD. I've seen all the various plus minus and boxscore derivatives that put him higher than KD. It's kind of obvious Westbrook is going to overshadow KD in boxscore derived stats if they shared the floor for much of the game.

When two players play big overlapping minutes the boxscore derived plus minus conjunction stats doesn't know where the impact is coming from. In fact the one with the fuller boxscore will almost always come out top if they were on the floor together. You have to see them yourself and when we watched them play together there was never any doubt who the better player was. It wasn't even as close as people say. There has never been a time or place teams were more worried about Westbrook. Even back then he got occasionally flamed for selling games with poor choices. For some reason he just got protected by the team and never reprimanded. He didn't develop low bbiq in 2021 or 22. It was present from day 1.

westbrook and dursnt in the 13-16 thunder are kind of a case study in the value of playmaking vs scoring

yes, durant was way more efficient, but westbrook created much more

thunder needed every bit of creatión by westbrook and every bit of efficient scoring by durant to lift that defense/rebounding minded team to be a elite offense

westbrook was extremely flawed back then, but his athletism was overwhelming and made up for that and then some

I know he was good and I know how good he was especially in his MVP year. You might even have been the best team on paper in 16. I thought Iggy was tripping when he said it but I go back to old games and realise you had Ibaka and Adams flanking Westbrook and KD. You should absolutely have beaten them but you could only go as far as KD could. If KD choked OKC choked because Westbrook sure as hell wasn't going to overcome a d defense like that.

no need to convince me, i was the crazy dude in 2016 who thought okc would be a nightmare for the warriors and their 18 wins advantage over us, had okc not choked they beat the 73 win warriors and 67 win spurs in 6 (at least we got lebron masterpiece out of it)

i think 2013 and 2016 okc are two od the best teams ever to not win a ring (2016 had some insane +8~ offensive rating at full health!)

that brief and and injury riddled period of dominance is why i think that while hard (okc and dursnt were perfectly Billy around him) you could make a dominant team with peak westbrook as one of your two stars

[donnieme]

Zimpy is a very optimistic poster in general. I don't think it's Westbrook specific.

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

The problem with your line of thinking is just patience. You want Westbrook to fill the role of roleplayers and want him to have made that transition in 40 games on a team with the 2nd most injuries and the most changing starting rotation of all teams in the league.

THT has been with the team for 2 years prior to this one, we knew his game before this season started and it hasn't changed until the last couple weeks when he's taking up a bigger hustle role with some scoring here and there. Drummond was good in his role.

Just last season Westbrook had a better PIPM and LEBRON number than his teammate in Beal. The impact player of Westbrook is still there, Lakers just need to find a way that it suits their team.

Kuzma was not good and is still not good. KCP was good. Harrell was going anyway. Pick 22 will probably be a nice player eventually. It wasn't all that much that was given for Westbrook. He hasn't shot well recently but he's still a dangerous player.

Importantly, Lakers are locked in with him. If you are the complaining type then feel free to complain but don't get frustrated with me if I want to look for actual realistic solutions to the Lakers problems.

Well you're not exactly who I had in mind for what happened in last year's play in game and the rockets so if you think it's you I'm looking your way you're wrong. I'm looking at guys who are frequently comparing him to Curry and people who blame his costars and teammates for his underwhelming playoff series. Guess what, Lebron will be added to that blame list when he leaves, the blame train keeps adding cars to its back. I've seen this movie. The sympathies come up so much the player never refined his game and is why he is now suffering on the Lakers. He almost developed a hero complex thanks to the hatred that was placed on KD. It was frustrating seeing all these get stars put down for the benefit of the same player that let the team down.

Point on THT and Drummond is simple, they are garbage and that's the kind of blunt honesty that's needed when discussing Westbrook's performances. It was needed years ago. After so many years being the crazy person in Westbrook talks I'm absolutely loving LA for finally doing this. Keep calling it as it is, LA. Developed huge amounts of respect for them since following Lebron's career there. Probably my most closely followed playoff team this year.

[falcolombardi]

i probably love westbrook the most in this thread and even i think he has been mediocre overall at most

hopefully he plays better in the playoffs, is unlikely but weirdest thinghs have happened

[falcolombardi]

Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.

The problem with your line of thinking is just patience. You want Westbrook to fill the role of roleplayers and want him to have made that transition in 40 games on a team with the 2nd most injuries and the most changing starting rotation of all teams in the league.

THT has been with the team for 2 years prior to this one, we knew his game before this season started and it hasn't changed until the last couple weeks when he's taking up a bigger hustle role with some scoring here and there. Drummond was good in his role.

Just last season Westbrook had a better PIPM and LEBRON number than his teammate in Beal. The impact player of Westbrook is still there, Lakers just need to find a way that it suits their team.

Kuzma was not good and is still not good. KCP was good. Harrell was going anyway. Pick 22 will probably be a nice player eventually. It wasn't all that much that was given for Westbrook. He hasn't shot well recently but he's still a dangerous player.

Importantly, Lakers are locked in with him. If you are the complaining type then feel free to complain but don't get frustrated with me if I want to look for actual realistic solutions to the Lakers problems.

Well you're not exactly who I had in mind for what happened in last year's play in game and the rockets so if you think it's you I'm looking your way you're wrong. I'm looking at guys who are frequently comparing him to Curry and people who blame his costars and teammates for his underwhelming playoff series. Guess what, Lebron will be added to that blame list when he leaves, the blame train keeps adding cars to its back. I've seen this movie. The sympathies come up so much the player never refined his game and is why he is now suffering on the Lakers. He almost developed a hero complex thanks to the hatred that was placed on KD. It was frustrating seeing all these get stars put down for the benefit of the same player that let the team down.

Point on THT and Drummond is simple, they are garbage and that's the kind of blunt honesty that's needed when discussing Westbrook's performances. It was needed years ago. After so many years being the crazy person in Westbrook talks I'm absolutely loving LA for finally doing this. Keep calling it as it is, LA. Developed huge amounts of respect for them since following Lebron's career there. Probably my most closely followed playoff team this year.

sorry but what did you mean there? i didnt understand the wording