LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ?

Moderators: PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier, penbeast0, trex_8063

User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#221 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:55 am

donnieme wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
donnieme wrote:Let's get honest, people give Westbrook more leeway than THT and even Drummond were afforded at a fraction of the cost and age. Many never said one thing nice about those players and they were the same or even better many nights. At 44m he has to contribute the value of 3 championship roleplayers not have poor performances sympathised on nights shooting 20%. Big 3s have always tasked the stars to bring all the production. It's bad enough he's less efficient than 2-4 minimum guys every night. Most lineups are made up of 4 other guys that don't even make half his salary combined.

We've seen Westbrook in 1 star formats, 2 star formats and now a big 3 and the excuse is always the same, teammates aren't good enough to get out of the first round/win a series/make the playoffs comfortably.


The problem with your line of thinking is just patience. You want Westbrook to fill the role of roleplayers and want him to have made that transition in 40 games on a team with the 2nd most injuries and the most changing starting rotation of all teams in the league.

THT has been with the team for 2 years prior to this one, we knew his game before this season started and it hasn't changed until the last couple weeks when he's taking up a bigger hustle role with some scoring here and there. Drummond was good in his role.

Just last season Westbrook had a better PIPM and LEBRON number than his teammate in Beal. The impact player of Westbrook is still there, Lakers just need to find a way that it suits their team.

Kuzma was not good and is still not good. KCP was good. Harrell was going anyway. Pick 22 will probably be a nice player eventually. It wasn't all that much that was given for Westbrook. He hasn't shot well recently but he's still a dangerous player.

Importantly, Lakers are locked in with him. If you are the complaining type then feel free to complain but don't get frustrated with me if I want to look for actual realistic solutions to the Lakers problems.

Well you're not exactly who I had in mind for what happened in last year's play in game and the rockets so if you think it's you I'm looking your way you're wrong. I'm looking at guys who are frequently comparing him to Curry and people who blame his costars and teammates for his underwhelming playoff series. Guess what, Lebron will be added to that blame list when he leaves, the blame train keeps adding cars to its back. I've seen this movie. The sympathies come up so much the player never refined his game and is why he is now suffering on the Lakers. He almost developed a hero complex thanks to the hatred that was placed on KD. It was frustrating seeing all these get stars put down for the benefit of the same player that let the team down.

Point on THT and Drummond is simple, they are garbage and that's the kind of blunt honesty that's needed when discussing Westbrook's performances. It was needed years ago. After so many years being the crazy person in Westbrook talks I'm absolutely loving LA for finally doing this. Keep calling it as it is, LA. Developed huge amounts of respect for them since following Lebron's career there. Probably my most closely followed playoff team this year.


Don't bother yourself with people who think that way. If you look around here, the people with level-headed understanding of the game don't blame LeBron for teammate incompatibility. They don't pile on Curry for his playoff struggles or worry about championships. The people who get how the game works are the only people you should concern yourself with.

You have to give Westbrook credit for the player he is and not buy into the irrationality of a few fans because then you end up dealing in irrationalities.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
donnieme
Head Coach
Posts: 6,403
And1: 7,175
Joined: Feb 27, 2012

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#222 » by donnieme » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 am

falcolombardi wrote:
donnieme wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
The problem with your line of thinking is just patience. You want Westbrook to fill the role of roleplayers and want him to have made that transition in 40 games on a team with the 2nd most injuries and the most changing starting rotation of all teams in the league.

THT has been with the team for 2 years prior to this one, we knew his game before this season started and it hasn't changed until the last couple weeks when he's taking up a bigger hustle role with some scoring here and there. Drummond was good in his role.

Just last season Westbrook had a better PIPM and LEBRON number than his teammate in Beal. The impact player of Westbrook is still there, Lakers just need to find a way that it suits their team.

Kuzma was not good and is still not good. KCP was good. Harrell was going anyway. Pick 22 will probably be a nice player eventually. It wasn't all that much that was given for Westbrook. He hasn't shot well recently but he's still a dangerous player.

Importantly, Lakers are locked in with him. If you are the complaining type then feel free to complain but don't get frustrated with me if I want to look for actual realistic solutions to the Lakers problems.

Well you're not exactly who I had in mind for what happened in last year's play in game and the rockets so if you think it's you I'm looking your way you're wrong. I'm looking at guys who are frequently comparing him to Curry and people who blame his costars and teammates for his underwhelming playoff series. Guess what, Lebron will be added to that blame list when he leaves, the blame train keeps adding cars to its back. I've seen this movie. The sympathies come up so much the player never refined his game and is why he is now suffering on the Lakers. He almost developed a hero complex thanks to the hatred that was placed on KD. It was frustrating seeing all these get stars put down for the benefit of the same player that let the team down.

Point on THT and Drummond is simple, they are garbage and that's the kind of blunt honesty that's needed when discussing Westbrook's performances. It was needed years ago. After so many years being the crazy person in Westbrook talks I'm absolutely loving LA for finally doing this. Keep calling it as it is, LA. Developed huge amounts of respect for them since following Lebron's career there. Probably my most closely followed playoff team this year.


sorry but what did you mean there? i didnt understand the wording

Nothing big, as a basketball fanatic I follow a bunch of players and teams every year starting with the ones I think will be higher seeds. I started watching Lakers again because Lebron made them relevant, noticed the winning culture and respect it. Up there with the Warriors. Other playoff teams have something special about them as well.

edit shoutout to the raptors.

Ps wasnt shading your okc by the way. also don't use blue ink, I thought I got another strike for a second there.
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,348
And1: 36,800
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#223 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:28 am

Read on Twitter

Don't know how realistic that trade is, but it's the best possible route they have
:reporter:
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#224 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:47 am

Mos_Heat wrote:
Read on Twitter

Don't know how realistic that trade is, but it's the best possible route they have


Which trade?

OKC only have 22m in capspace btw.
Maybe OKC as a third team.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,348
And1: 36,800
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#225 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:33 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
Read on Twitter

Don't know how realistic that trade is, but it's the best possible route they have


Which trade?

OKC only have 22m in capspace btw.
Maybe OKC as a third team.

Image
You can have any other player with salary bigger than 2m instead of Williams
:reporter:
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#226 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:50 am

Mos_Heat wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
Read on Twitter

Don't know how realistic that trade is, but it's the best possible route they have


Which trade?

OKC only have 22m in capspace btw.
Maybe OKC as a third team.

Image
You can have any other player with salary bigger than 2m instead of Williams


Oh, you're right. I use Spotrac and it says $24m since they waive Gabriel Deck and they also have cap holds still that they can easily waive to make 34m if they want.

In that instance I still prefer OKC as third team. Lakers could get someone back for Westbrook.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,348
And1: 36,800
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#227 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:06 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Spoiler:
Mos_Heat wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Which trade?

OKC only have 22m in capspace btw.
Maybe OKC as a third team.

Image
You can have any other player with salary bigger than 2m instead of Williams


Oh, you're right. I use Spotrac and it says $24m since they waive Gabriel Deck and they also have cap holds still that they can easily waive to make 34m if they want.

In that instance I still prefer OKC as third team. Lakers could get someone back for Westbrook.

IDK, I would want a TPE and then use it in a trade for a guy like Eric Gordon
:reporter:
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#228 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:29 am

Mos_Heat wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Spoiler:
Mos_Heat wrote:Image
You can have any other player with salary bigger than 2m instead of Williams


Oh, you're right. I use Spotrac and it says $24m since they waive Gabriel Deck and they also have cap holds still that they can easily waive to make 34m if they want.

In that instance I still prefer OKC as third team. Lakers could get someone back for Westbrook.

IDK, I would want a TPE and then use it in a trade for a guy like Eric Gordon


I put this is the tradeboard. I'm thinking it probably gets ripped by people thinking Lakers owe more. I'm not sure about that, depends on how Presti views Westbrook as a potentially redeemable asset.

LAL get: Grant, Olynyk, Kenrich
LAL give: Westbrook, THT, LAL27FRP, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP

Lakers move on from the Westbrook experiment as well as moving THT and a number of their last few pick assets.
They upgrade their wings and get a backup C that can be used on the perimeter.
They also get out of the tax this season.

DET get: THT, Favors, LAL27FRP
DET give: Grant, Olynyk

Detroit move on their quality older player signings to bring in a young wing and a FRP. They also save a lot of salary, getting under the cap.

OKC get: Westbrook, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP
OKC give: Favors, Kenrich

OKC bring back Westbrook with 3 SRPs as compensation for taking on the money. They use their capspace but get a prospect that can recoup value playing on a team as a leader.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
dcstanley
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,932
And1: 1,288
Joined: Nov 20, 2017

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#229 » by dcstanley » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:39 am

Still can't believe they opted not to bring back Matthews.
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,348
And1: 36,800
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#230 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:45 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Spoiler:


Oh, you're right. I use Spotrac and it says $24m since they waive Gabriel Deck and they also have cap holds still that they can easily waive to make 34m if they want.

In that instance I still prefer OKC as third team. Lakers could get someone back for Westbrook.

IDK, I would want a TPE and then use it in a trade for a guy like Eric Gordon


I put this is the tradeboard. I'm thinking it probably gets ripped by people thinking Lakers owe more. I'm not sure about that, depends on how Presti views Westbrook as a potentially redeemable asset.

LAL get: Grant, Olynyk, Kenrich
LAL give: Westbrook, THT, LAL27FRP, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP

Lakers move on from the Westbrook experiment as well as moving THT and a number of their last few pick assets.
They upgrade their wings and get a backup C that can be used on the perimeter.
They also get out of the tax this season.

DET get: THT, Favors, LAL27FRP
DET give: Grant, Olynyk

Detroit move on their quality older player signings to bring in a young wing and a FRP. They also save a lot of salary, getting under the cap.

OKC get: Westbrook, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP
OKC give: Favors, Kenrich

OKC bring back Westbrook with 3 SRPs as compensation for taking on the money. They use their capspace but get a prospect that can recoup value playing on a team as a leader.

I think OKC would need more for the amount of money they take. Maybe two pick swaps in 26 and 28?
:reporter:
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#231 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:51 am

Mos_Heat wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:IDK, I would want a TPE and then use it in a trade for a guy like Eric Gordon


I put this is the tradeboard. I'm thinking it probably gets ripped by people thinking Lakers owe more. I'm not sure about that, depends on how Presti views Westbrook as a potentially redeemable asset.

LAL get: Grant, Olynyk, Kenrich
LAL give: Westbrook, THT, LAL27FRP, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP

Lakers move on from the Westbrook experiment as well as moving THT and a number of their last few pick assets.
They upgrade their wings and get a backup C that can be used on the perimeter.
They also get out of the tax this season.

DET get: THT, Favors, LAL27FRP
DET give: Grant, Olynyk

Detroit move on their quality older player signings to bring in a young wing and a FRP. They also save a lot of salary, getting under the cap.

OKC get: Westbrook, CHI23SRP, LAL23SRP, WAS24SRP
OKC give: Favors, Kenrich

OKC bring back Westbrook with 3 SRPs as compensation for taking on the money. They use their capspace but get a prospect that can recoup value playing on a team as a leader.

I think OKC would need more for the amount of money they take. Maybe two pick swaps in 26 and 28?


Maybe they like that idea. It's hard to know what Westbrooks value is around the league, as he still could run a team offense and his large contract is an expiring which would suit teams looking for capspace in 2023. He was 11th in MVP voting just last season.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 39,212
And1: 36,977
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#232 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:52 am

dcstanley wrote:Still can't believe they opted not to bring back Matthews.


Yeah that annoys me too. Dude was begging to stay and he'd be useful.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
Slava
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 60,804
And1: 33,446
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
     

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#233 » by Slava » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:33 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
dcstanley wrote:Still can't believe they opted not to bring back Matthews.


Yeah that annoys me too. Dude was begging to stay and he'd be useful.


Has he been passable in Milwaukee? It felt like Vogel soured on him quite early last season.
:king: + :angry: = :wizard:
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,348
And1: 36,800
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#234 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:38 pm

Slava wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
dcstanley wrote:Still can't believe they opted not to bring back Matthews.


Yeah that annoys me too. Dude was begging to stay and he'd be useful.


Has he been passable in Milwaukee? It felt like Vogel soured on him quite early last season.

+17on/off, 44% from 3
:reporter:
dcstanley
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,932
And1: 1,288
Joined: Nov 20, 2017

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#235 » by dcstanley » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:12 pm

Slava wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
dcstanley wrote:Still can't believe they opted not to bring back Matthews.


Yeah that annoys me too. Dude was begging to stay and he'd be useful.


Has he been passable in Milwaukee? It felt like Vogel soured on him quite early last season.

He didn't have the best season but I remember him being a real difference maker defensively late in the season. He was excellent in the play-in game and was in the closing lineup over Schroeder.
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,451
And1: 9,240
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#236 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:57 pm

falcolombardi wrote:
Mazter wrote:I guess people were right, this season proves LeBron is not a pure scorer. I mean, he is cassually averaging 29.1 at 37 because of the situation at hand. That is +2.1 above his career average. As a comparison, the rest of the guys averaging at least 20 before 37:

Code: Select all

Name          <37    at37    Diff
Lebron        27.0   29.1    +2.1
Karl          26.0   23.2    -2.8
Kareem        26.9   22.0    -4.9
Dirk          22.2   18.3    -3.9
Wilkins       25.8   18.2    -7.6
Kobe          25.4   17.6    -7.8
Havlicek      21.1   16.1    -6.0
Duncan        20.2   15.1    -5.1
DWade         22.5   15.0    -7.5
Ewing         23.3   15.0    -8.3
Melo          23.0   13.2    -9.8
Hayes         22.7   12.9    -9.8
Shaq          24.7   12.0   -12.7
Pierce        21.3   11.9   -10.4
Baylor        27.5   11.8   -15.8
Allen         20.0   10.9    -9.1
Hakeem        23.6   10.3   -13.3
English       22.3    9.7   -12.6
DRob          21.9    8.5   -13.4
Moses         21.1    5.3   -15.8

He always just scored what he thought was needed. Imaging what his career average would have been if scoring would have actually been a thing for him.


i said the other day that if lebron was obsessed with winning scoring titles like jordan was (based on the jordan rules here it seems he really worried Phil Jackson system would make him miss on scoring titles) he could have matches or at least approaches jordan volume in comparable efficiency

that his best volume scoring seasons came at 21 and 37 kinda point to that

i wonder how much higher people would be on him of he decided to score 30 a game every year and playmake less, probably would be criticized for it lol


He absolutely would be criticized for it.

The other day, Durant, one of the greatest scorers ever, passed the ball to the rookie Cam Thomas and there wasn't a single bit of criticism dished his way. Make or miss, LeBron got that criticism forever.

PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,451
And1: 9,240
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#237 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:13 pm

Apparently Rob tried to get Reddish for two 2nds. I'd have liked Reddish on this team...
User avatar
MisterHibachi
RealGM
Posts: 18,657
And1: 19,073
Joined: Oct 06, 2013
Location: Toronto
 

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#238 » by MisterHibachi » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:07 pm

LeBron averaging 29.1 ppg now. Durant down to 29.7. Need that #Year19 scoring title since the MVP seems out of reach now.
"He looked like Batman coming out of nowhere"
User avatar
SeniorWalker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,045
And1: 1,855
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Location: at the event horizon and well on my way in, but you're wondering when i'll get there

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#239 » by SeniorWalker » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:41 pm

Its amusing that Lakers fans and the media are doing a tag team effort to trash Westbrook on a nightly basis but then still invent trade scenarios where he has value. "Oh you're talking about a guy that can still lead an offense and score. Why, just X number of years ago he was a great player."

Its awful to have to listen to everyday. Its not a realGM thing, I see it everywhere in the NBA world.

LeBron was very shrewd to have Westbrook on this team actually. He is the perfect lightning rod for when things go wrong.
"And always remember: one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish, knick knack, paddy whack, give a dog a bone, two thousand, zero, zero, party, oops! Out of time, my bacon smellin' fine."
McBubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,128
And1: 1,248
Joined: Jun 16, 2020

Re: LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ? 

Post#240 » by McBubbles » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:01 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:LeBron averaging 29.1 ppg now. Durant down to 29.7. Need that #Year19 scoring title since the MVP seems out of reach now.


? As much as I'd love that, that seems like wishful thinking to me.

It's likely gonna drop to low 28's, if not high 27's after AD comes back.
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".

You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?

Return to Player Comparisons