Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, PaulieWal, Quotatious, penbeast0

Who wins? YOU DECIDE!

Poll ended at Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:49 am

Ryoga Hibiki
13
54%
Doctor MJ
11
46%
 
Total votes: 24

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Ryoga Hibiki
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Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#1 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:48 am

Click the links on the names to see the team presentation (if available)
To remind everyone the rules: the players must be considered as you expect them in around 6 months, in playoff shape,
It's NOT just about how they've been this season.

Ryoga Hibiki:
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bradley Beal
Lonzo Ball
Harrison Barnes
Joe Harris
Luguentz Dort
Nikola Vucevic
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Ivica Zubac
Cameron Payne

Doctor MJ:
Nikola Jokic
Evan Mobley
Darius Garland
Dillon Brooks
Royce O'Neale
Nicolas Batum
Seth Curry
Grayson Allen
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Kevon Looney
Follow the Build Your Realistic Team tournament threads!
The Tournament
Your vote will decide the winners!

My team:
B. Beal
L. Ball
J. Harris
G. Antetokoumpo
N. Vucevic

H. Barnes
L. Dort
Bog. Bogdanovic
I. Zubac
C. Payne
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#2 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:21 pm

You can't shut down a team like this one built around Jokic, but you can make it work as long as you front all players preventing them to cut to the basket. I will probably give too many threes, but the priority here is to avoid layups and dunks and try to make them above the break rather than from the corners.
I think both Vuc (who doesn't have a bad H2H against Jokic) and Zubac can try to hold their own and Giannis has probably enough speed and length to limit the passing angles.
I can still see 10 minutes of smallball with Giannis at center and how the opponent would use Jokic defensively.
Moreover, I think that a pick and roll with Jokic's man is going to send their defense scrambling and I have enough passing to find an open shot.
Finally, I still think both Mobley and Garland are a bit to young and inexperienced to be the decisive factor at this level.
Follow the Build Your Realistic Team tournament threads!
The Tournament
Your vote will decide the winners!

My team:
B. Beal
L. Ball
J. Harris
G. Antetokoumpo
N. Vucevic

H. Barnes
L. Dort
Bog. Bogdanovic
I. Zubac
C. Payne
Doctor MJ
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#3 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:16 pm

Will get my thoughts up today. Thanks for your patience.


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Currently GMing the Original Centaurs:

Nikola Jokic
Evan Mobley
Darius Garland
Dillon Brooks
Royce O'Neale
Nicolas Batum
Seth Curry
Grayson Allen
Kentavious-Caldwell Pope
Kevon Looney
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#4 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:35 pm

Ball
Beal
Barnes
Vooch

Surrounding Giannis?

That wins.
Tatum is a PF Horford is a C
Young guys Need time
Smart and Schroder= dumb
Isolation plays are NOT A VIABLE OFFENSE
Stop running your stars into the ground.
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#5 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:36 pm

Alright, I like a lot about Ryoga's team. Giannis is great, and the team around him makes sense.

As I look for potential vulnerabilities, things I see:

1. As we look at his main 5 man lineup - Ball / Beal / Harris / Giannis / Vucevic - one of the things I can't help but think is that 3 of the 5 guys in that lineup are not playing as well as their reputations this season.

Beal's volume and efficiency are down quite a bit from last year, and the team doesn't seem to miss him when he's on the bench.

Harris has looked considerably worse than last year, and even last year the glass slippers shattered against quality opponents in the playoffs.

Vucevic is an offense-oriented big whose TS% is south of .50.

I know that Ryoga says that my guys are essentially too young to win at this point, which is to me another way of saying "Yeah they look good now, but maybe they won't against tough competition." To which I'd say: If the alternative to that is picking known guys who aren't playing that great right now, I like my chances.

2. Ryoga says that with the way he's built his team with shooting you can't build a defensive wall, but the implication there is that the shooting around Giannis is much stronger than it was, say, against the Raptors in '18-19.

In that series, in the last 4 games, the main 5 guys were Brogdan / Middleton / Hill / Giannis / Lopez. That's really not bad shooting around Giannis, yet the wall worked to perfection. Why? Well in the end, if the defense knows you still want your offense to work with Giannis driving from the perimeter, it's going to plan accordingly.

You can certainly argue that Vucevic - currently shooting 33.5% from 3 and 69.6% from the line - is so much better a shooting than Lopez - who shot 36.5% from 3 on greater volume and 84.2% from the line in '18-19 - that if I try a similar approach Vucevic will destroy me...but I'm skeptical.

And yeah, I'm well built to create a Giannis wall. Jokic isn't the most mobile guy, but he's got old man Gasol beat by a ton. Mobley's a beat unlike anything the Raptors had, and while Brooks isn't Kawhi, he's got a good amount in common.

3. I'll add that I feel like the Bucks broke through last year in the finals with Giannis playing more off-ball, but they did that with Ayton looking like he was in slow-motion against Giannis, and that represented a clear cut match up issue. In Mobley, I've got someone with someone with a more Giannis-like frame who has already shown a considerably smarter defensive instincts. Not saying we'll shut Giannis down, but if we're looking for a team that matches up pretty well to make Giannis work as hard as possible, I think I've got one.

4. I love me some Lonzo, but when Ryoga says that Lonzo will be the main ballhandler, Lonzo's been a revelation this year being the #3 ball handler on his team. Lonzo is a great passer, but to me the story of his career is that he functions better as a connector than as a classic point guard which pertains to why it's taken a while for him to find his niche.

Okay, I think I'm going to leave it there for now. I'll see if there are other points I feel compelled to address, but Ryoga does have a strong team and I'll certainly feel no shame if the voters end up siding with him.

Cheers, it's been fun!
Currently GMing the Original Centaurs:

Nikola Jokic
Evan Mobley
Darius Garland
Dillon Brooks
Royce O'Neale
Nicolas Batum
Seth Curry
Grayson Allen
Kentavious-Caldwell Pope
Kevon Looney
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#6 » by Peregrine01 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:14 pm

Nice to see the two best teams in this finals here. I'm going to guess that Ryoga's squad is gonna play like the Bucks here, with shooters spaced out and Giannis attacking from the perimeter.

A key factor here I think is pace and turnovers - it's been shown that Giannis and the Bucks are a lot less formidable when pace slows down and they have to attack in the half-court. Well, Jokic-led teams tend to play with low pace and low turnovers in the half-court and is one reason why I think Denver has played relatively well against the Bucks (Jokic is 7-4 in head-to-head matchups with Giannis). It's the same thing the Raptors did in 19, the Heat did in 20, and the Nets did in 21 - manage the game to reduce as many transition opportunities as you can and the Bucks become a lot more guardable.

I think the Giannis-wall is a lot easier to build than a defense to stop this Jokic-led offense so I'm going with the Centaurs.
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#7 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:42 pm

I voted Ryoga by virtue of him having more depth in terms of creation/ballhandling.

Jokic/Garland is a great pairing, but I worry a bit about what happens when either is off the floor. You basically have to stagger them aggressively, and then you're vulnerable in those minutes if the opposition is able to get the ball out of their hands and force the other guys on the court to create.

For me Ryoga's supplementary playmaking (i.e. beyond the two primary stars) from guys like Lonzo, Bogdanovic, and Payne is stronger, so I think his bench units will run more smoothly.

Great job to both teams.
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#8 » by Fundamentals21 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:47 pm

I had to roll with Ryoga. I personally don't see enough offense being generated by Doc. I think the lack of scoring affects my judgment here a bit. Garland I am uncertain is a great 2nd option, and beyond that, Doc has Dillon Brooks, etc. This offense can only go so far deep in the playoffs when Jokic desperately needs some scoring.

I also think Evan Mobley as a rookie will make a ton of rookie mistakes, too, which adds on to Ryoga's case as winner. I'll vote Ryoga.
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#9 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:57 pm

So, I don't want to overstep my bounds here, but Ryoga's in a bit of weird place because he's running the project and also competing in it. Looks to me like the votes are pretty decisive in Ryoga's favor, so I'm inclined to concede.

So, Ryoga, I'd request you either make your victory speech, or give a deadline for people to get there votes in.

Holding off on congratulations for the moment :)
Doc
Currently GMing the Original Centaurs:

Nikola Jokic
Evan Mobley
Darius Garland
Dillon Brooks
Royce O'Neale
Nicolas Batum
Seth Curry
Grayson Allen
Kentavious-Caldwell Pope
Kevon Looney
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#10 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:54 pm

Well, the poll runs till tomorrow, so I am waiting for that!
Follow the Build Your Realistic Team tournament threads!
The Tournament
Your vote will decide the winners!

My team:
B. Beal
L. Ball
J. Harris
G. Antetokoumpo
N. Vucevic

H. Barnes
L. Dort
Bog. Bogdanovic
I. Zubac
C. Payne
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Re: Build Your Realistic Team FINALS - Ryoga Hibiki vs Doctor MJ 

Post#11 » by Colbinii » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:44 pm

I will gladly claim [unofficial] 2nd place.

Thank for running the game.
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