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How many Moses Malone seasons would you take over peak Giannis Antetokounmpo?

None. I actually have Giannis at the 29th best peak, and Moses at 30.

I think they peaked on similar level and I might even consider 2021 Giannis over peak Moses. Not sure though, Moses was extremely impactful.

1982 and 1983 are the ones I'd consider. 1981 and 1979 are slightly below that level, mostly due to defensive effort.

82 Moses/21 Yannis
20 Yannis/19 Yannis
83 Moses

. Maybe 82 Moses over 21 Yannis; besides 82, Yannis have 3 years better than Moses' second best year(83). Of course, within the adjusted historical impact. Without adjustion, it's hard to compare players from different leagues.

Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

82 February:

38 PPG, 17 RPG, 2 APG, 1,5 BPG, %61 TS, 130 ORTG, 2,9 TmrORTG(1,4 GeneralSeason), +6,9 SRS(-0,4 GeneralSeason), in 14 Games.

No-more-rings wrote:Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

You could be right, if someone wants to look at 82 as well that's fine, but certainly none other stack up to 21 Giannis.

No-more-rings wrote:

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

You could be right, if someone wants to look at 82 as well that's fine, but certainly none other stack up to 21 Giannis.

Yeah, I wouldn't take any other season over peak Giannis either.

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

One thing '83 Moses has going for him due to the Pollack books is huge on-off and thus relative certainty of impact.

Anyhow love it when you share games so thank you very much for this.

Owly wrote:

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Probably none, but 83 Moses deserves a serious look.

I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

One thing '83 Moses has going for him due to the Pollack books is huge on-off and thus relative certainty of impact.

Anyhow love it when you share games so thank you very much for this.

Thanks, I can upload more 1982 Rockets games if you wish

Although we don't have on/off stats for 1982 Moses, we can estimate that his impact was massive in Houston as well. Rockets were absolutely horrible without him in 1983 and they got decent player in Caldwell Jones in return (not a good offensive player, but strong defender).

70sFan wrote:

Owly wrote:

70sFan wrote:I don't think there is a clear difference between 1982 and 1983 Moses. I guess you can count lack of long postseason run against him, but it's not like he played badly in short series vs Sonics and he had a trash team around him that year.

For people interested, here is the final playoff Moses game from that season:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

One thing '83 Moses has going for him due to the Pollack books is huge on-off and thus relative certainty of impact.

Anyhow love it when you share games so thank you very much for this.

Thanks, I can upload more 1982 Rockets games if you wish

Although we don't have on/off stats for 1982 Moses, we can estimate that his impact was massive in Houston as well. Rockets were absolutely horrible without him in 1983 and they got decent player in Caldwell Jones in return (not a good offensive player, but strong defender).

They were definitely horrible, but as per your issue with using '97 Spurs to measure Robinson (of course Robinson has the on-off anyway) there's likely a different focus (i.e. both said to be tanking seasons).

So on-off single season is already pretty noisy but the sheer size of the number gives us some confidence. If we're doing team level performance across season comps that gets - I think significantly - ramped up. There's the intent issue first and foremost. There's a bit of turnover too (of the 7 others over 1000 minutes Reid, Dunleavy and Willoughby are out and Henderson drops to fringe of rotation - of the new top 8/over 1000 minutes Walker, Bailey, Bryant and Teagle join Jones as non-holdovers). Then the players that remain may not have remained static (rise or decline). Then too versus on-off, you no longer have a pure "on" sample.

I'd assume he was good but and the Houston shift supports that, but that sort of evidence ... (for me) it's best as supporting evidence. It's another thing on top of everything else to say he was a good player. In terms of confidence of his impact in '82 (not to say this is more important than being good) ... it's better than nothing but not something personally I could be confident in.

Anyway thanks again. Very generous of you to share this.

Malone's best seasons were probably 1978-79 and 1982-83. All-NBA 1st team both seasons and all-defensive team (2nd in 78-79, 1st in 82-83). I think he was the best all-around player in the league in 1982-83. Would take those two over peak Giannis.

Owly wrote:

70sFan wrote:One thing '83 Moses has going for him due to the Pollack books is huge on-off and thus relative certainty of impact.

Anyhow love it when you share games so thank you very much for this.

1. What're Pollack's books called and where are they available? Thank you.

2. Agreed. 70s Fan is a treasure trove unto himself!!

ty 4191 wrote:

Owly wrote:

70sFan wrote:One thing '83 Moses has going for him due to the Pollack books is huge on-off and thus relative certainty of impact.

Anyhow love it when you share games so thank you very much for this.

1. What're Pollack's books called and where are they available? Thank you.

2. Agreed. 70s Fan is a treasure trove unto himself!!

Not got much time. Believe it's the old 76ers media guides.

If you want the data and discussion
Google sixers on-off pollack fpliii realgm [fpliii being the poster who shared most of this] and you'll get threads discussing it. Think the main one focuses on 94-96 on-off (these years has league-wide numbers, back to mid seventies there's the on-off for 76ers and for at least some of those years their opponents [tiny samples]).

None

Statlanta wrote:How many Moses Malone seasons would you take over peak Giannis Antetokounmpo?

all of them

Prokorov wrote:

Statlanta wrote:How many Moses Malone seasons would you take over peak Giannis Antetokounmpo?

all of them

Even Spurs version?

70sFan wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

Statlanta wrote:How many Moses Malone seasons would you take over peak Giannis Antetokounmpo?

all of them

Even Spurs version?

Robinson was great that session.