RealGM

Who's your top 10 MVP candidates right now?

Jokic
Embiid
Giannis
Curry
Durant (will drop after missing more games)
Gobert
Morant
Butler
LeBron
DeRozan

HM - CP3, Booker, Tatum, Doncic, Mitchell

Seems wrong not to have any Phoenix players but I couldn't decide between CP3/Booker and I mostly attribute their success to depth, balance, coaching, etc. Mikal Bridges in particular is the perfect "role player" whose impact can't be overstated.

The way I see it it's a 3 man race between Jokic/Embiid/Giannis.

People might dispute my LeBron pick but he's been the lone bright spot for the Lakers (besides maybe Monk/Reaves) who still impacts the game at the highest level

Jokic

Curry

Giannis
Embiid
Tatum
CP3

Gobert
DeRozan

Having trouble picking my last two. Towns, Garland, Durant, Luka, Butler, FVV, Morant come to mind among team leaders. Mikal/Jrue/Mitchell among team 2nds.

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid
Curry
Durant
Doncic
Butler
Morant
Derozan
Lebron
.

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid

Curry
Derozan
Doncic
CP3
Morant (Could be higher but Grizzles were 12w2l without him)
Butler
LeBron

Jokic
Embiid
Giannis
CP3
Gobert
Morant
Curry
Butler
DeRozan
Luka

I picked Luka over Lebron because even though the former had a slow start to the season, the Mavs are 5th and the Lakers are 9th... both teams have equally crap rosters.

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. Giannis
4. DeRozan
5. Curry
6. Morant
7. CP3
8. Booker
9. Butler
10. Luka

Jokic

Curry
Embiid
Giannis

CP3
Tatum
DeRozan

Towns
Morant
Gobert

Giannis ( I think the defense gap is bigger than the offense gap)
Jokic
Embiid

Ja Morant
CP3
Curry
LeBron
DeRozan
Durant (will drop more based on games)
Gobert

Booker (for when KD drops out)

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid
Curry
Gobert
Butler
LeBron
Durant
Paul
Luka

Narigo wrote:Jokic
Giannis
Embiid
Curry
Gobert
Butler
LeBron
Durant
Paul
Luka

What kind of Bulls fan are you?

Jokic/Giannis/Embiid

Curry/Paul/Derozan

Morant/Gobert/Butler/Doncic

Jokic

Giannis
Curry
Embiid

CP3
Tatum
DeRozan
Gobert
Garland
Morant

Of course those last few don't have any chance of getting the MVP, and better guys like Butler or Doncic are rounding up to form, but yeah.

Thought I'd go through and do this.

Alphabetical order:

Antetokounmpo - obvious
Curry - obvious
DeRozan - obvious...but I should say I didn't see this coming, and I'm still lower on him than many
Embiid - obvious
Garland - Doesn't seem like he should be Top 10, but I'm not comfortable ignoring how well the Cavs have done built around him.
Gobert - obvious
Jokic - obvious
Morant - Not so obvious to me actually, even though many call him a serious MVP candidate. The Grizz success this year has been about far more than Ja, nevertheless I think it's clear that having Ja as the focal point isn't a bad idea, and he's one of the most spectacular player we've ever seen
Paul - obvious
Tatum - Amazingly after that slow start that had us all giving up on the Celtics, Tatum is now 4th in the league in +/-. Probably too late to become a serious MVP candidate, but it's probably time for us to jump back on that bandwagon.

Others makes sense to mention:

Jimmy Butler - feels like he should be in the Top 10, but the Heat's success this year is really more about collective resilience.

Luka Doncic - he's rising, but we shouldn't forget that the reason that the Mavs have the record they do is because they've really done fine without him, like, his entire career (other than the playoffs last year). Superficially he feels like the new LeBron, but we've not seen that same type of impact from him.

LeBron & KD - both in a category where I'm just not going to use arguments based on how weak their supporting cast is. They chose their supporting casts, now they get to live with them.

Doctor MJ wrote:Garland - Doesn't seem like he should be Top 10, but I'm not comfortable ignoring how well the Cavs have done built around him.

As someone who hasn't watched much Cavs this season I have a question - are Cavs really built around Garland? They are elite defensive team with acceptable offense that have all-star center who is DPOTY candidate and another amazing defensive talent at PF. I don't know, but isn't Cavs built around Allen more?

70sFan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:Garland - Doesn't seem like he should be Top 10, but I'm not comfortable ignoring how well the Cavs have done built around him.

As someone who hasn't watched much Cavs this season I have a question - are Cavs really built around Garland? They are elite defensive team with acceptable offense that have all-star center who is DPOTY candidate and another amazing defensive talent at PF. I don't know, but isn't Cavs built around Allen more?

I understand taking issue with my wording.

I will say this though: What makes you focus on Allen as the DPOY candidate? Shouldn't that be Mobley?

In general what I see is that Garland has been the MVP of the team, Mobley's the defensive MVP and the guy we expect to be the team's superstar going forward, and Allen's the defensive sidekick who is allowed to simply feast on lobs because Garland's a great passer and Mobley can be a threat beyond 3 feet.

Doctor MJ wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:Garland - Doesn't seem like he should be Top 10, but I'm not comfortable ignoring how well the Cavs have done built around him.

As someone who hasn't watched much Cavs this season I have a question - are Cavs really built around Garland? They are elite defensive team with acceptable offense that have all-star center who is DPOTY candidate and another amazing defensive talent at PF. I don't know, but isn't Cavs built around Allen more?

I understand taking issue with my wording.

I will say this though: What makes you focus on Allen as the DPOY candidate? Shouldn't that be Mobley?

In general what I see is that Garland has been the MVP of the team, Mobley's the defensive MVP and the guy we expect to be the team's superstar going forward, and Allen's the defensive sidekick who is allowed to simply feast on lobs because Garland's a great passer and Mobley can be a threat beyond 3 feet.

I don't watch that much Cavs games as I said, so I can be wrong but Allen is immense rim protector this season. He's truly Gobert-esque in that he can shut down the paint for the opponents. Mobley's more versatile, but he doesn't have that kind of impact yet in my opinion. I'd also say that Allen is better offensive player (even if more limited) than Mobley for now, though Mobley's potential is much higher of course.

Allen plays like a slightly worse version of Gobert this season and I don't think you can make a credible argument that either of the two are close to Gobert. Allen isn't useless outside the rim either, he has a decent touch in the paint and can even give you some points you one on one against missmatch. He's not Mark Eaton there, he has his value on offense.

70sFan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

70sFan wrote:As someone who hasn't watched much Cavs this season I have a question - are Cavs really built around Garland? They are elite defensive team with acceptable offense that have all-star center who is DPOTY candidate and another amazing defensive talent at PF. I don't know, but isn't Cavs built around Allen more?

I understand taking issue with my wording.

I will say this though: What makes you focus on Allen as the DPOY candidate? Shouldn't that be Mobley?

In general what I see is that Garland has been the MVP of the team, Mobley's the defensive MVP and the guy we expect to be the team's superstar going forward, and Allen's the defensive sidekick who is allowed to simply feast on lobs because Garland's a great passer and Mobley can be a threat beyond 3 feet.

I don't watch that much Cavs games as I said, so I can be wrong but Allen is immense rim protector this season. He's truly Gobert-esque in that he can shut down the paint for the opponents. Mobley's more versatile, but he doesn't have that kind of impact yet in my opinion. I'd also say that Allen is better offensive player (even if more limited) than Mobley for now, though Mobley's potential is much higher of course.

Allen plays like a slightly worse version of Gobert this season and I don't think you can make a credible argument that either of the two are close to Gobert. Allen isn't useless outside the rim either, he has a decent touch in the paint and can even give you some points you one on one against missmatch. He's not Mark Eaton there, he has his value on offense.

Αllen's probably my favourite non star player.
And it's been like this since Brooklyn.
The fact that Mobley is versatile and will keep Allen around is a blessing.
They have a solid young trio.
I agree that Garland is their MVP tho.
The team didn't lose anything from the Sexton injury(on the contrary), they overcame the Rubio injury (who was amazing until the injury).
Garland has managed to orchestrate an offense with 3 6'10 and taller guys over there.

70sFan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

70sFan wrote:As someone who hasn't watched much Cavs this season I have a question - are Cavs really built around Garland? They are elite defensive team with acceptable offense that have all-star center who is DPOTY candidate and another amazing defensive talent at PF. I don't know, but isn't Cavs built around Allen more?

I understand taking issue with my wording.

I will say this though: What makes you focus on Allen as the DPOY candidate? Shouldn't that be Mobley?

In general what I see is that Garland has been the MVP of the team, Mobley's the defensive MVP and the guy we expect to be the team's superstar going forward, and Allen's the defensive sidekick who is allowed to simply feast on lobs because Garland's a great passer and Mobley can be a threat beyond 3 feet.

I don't watch that much Cavs games as I said, so I can be wrong but Allen is immense rim protector this season. He's truly Gobert-esque in that he can shut down the paint for the opponents. Mobley's more versatile, but he doesn't have that kind of impact yet in my opinion. I'd also say that Allen is better offensive player (even if more limited) than Mobley for now, though Mobley's potential is much higher of course.

Allen plays like a slightly worse version of Gobert this season and I don't think you can make a credible argument that either of the two are close to Gobert. Allen isn't useless outside the rim either, he has a decent touch in the paint and can even give you some points you one on one against missmatch. He's not Mark Eaton there, he has his value on offense.

And I should be clear that I'm not looking to claim like I have superior authority on the subject to you. I could certainly be wrong.

When you say Allen is Gobert-esque, this is interesting to me. Here's some data I see:

1. Mobley blocks more shots (and gets more steals)
2. Mobley has more FGA defended (granted Allen has the edge in DFG%)
3. The Cavs' defense has done better with Mobley out there than Allen.
4. Mobley has the edge by DRAPM (nbashotcharts)

I should refrain from being hyperbolic here because the reality is that this two man big man defensive core is absolutely at the heart of the Cavs' strategy and both guys are working well, but what are you seeing that's making you feel like Allen is clearly the one "shutting down" opponents?

Re: offense. I'd be inclined to agree that Allen has been the more effective offensive player, and thus it totally makes sense to me to have Allen in the all-star game over Mobley...but do you understand what I mean about how much more Mobley is asked to shoot from outside?

Allen shoots 62.3% of his shots from 3 feet and less. Mobley shoots 34.7%. I don't think it's any kind of question who is being asked to take shots from harder places, and I don't see any reason to think that Mobley couldn't shoot more from the interior if Allen wasn't there. I'd note that in college Mobley both scored at higher volume and higher efficiency than Allen, so the idea that Mobley's too raw to do what Allen does seems weird.

I will acknowledge that Allen's the more massive guy, and that helps him in getting his way as a bully on the interior, which I'd expect helps him not just with offensive rebounding, but with put backs. But I do think that if you allow Mobley to do what you let Allen do, he's going to be able to do a lot of the same stuff...you just can't let both guys do it at the same time, and so when they are on the court together, one of those guys has to play less on the interior, and it makes sense to be the one who is the more proven shooter from range. Mobley not being as good in that role as we'd ideally like makes him less impactful right now, but when you think about in terms of Mobley being forced to do this because Allen cannot, to me that puts a different color on things.