3 changese to late 1980s Celtic, LeBron Bias, what happens

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Change 1 1985 draft choose Terry Porter instead of Sam Vincent
Change 2 replace 1986 draft, dead Len Bias with LeBron Miller, best of rookie LeBron and best of Rookie Reggie Miller merged into one player.
Change 3 1987 draft pick Reggie Lewis does not die.

How much to celtics win?
Does LeBron Miller move McHale back to his 6th man role.
Does LeBron become ball dominant and a bit stagnating to offenses despite breaking in with a passing team and having Reggie Miller's potentential off the ball game.
Does Terry Porter become the Terry Porter we know despite not playing with Drexler and spending his rookie year sitting on the bench watching Jerry Sichting play all the back up point guard minutes?
Change 4 1988 draft pick Brian Shaw is happy and plays out his career in Boston
Change 5 1989 Draft pick Dino Radja comes to the Celtics in 1989 instead of 1993
Change 6 In 1989 Danny Ainge and Brad Lohaus are not traded for Joe Klein and Ed Pickney
Change 7 Gregg Kite is not waived in Febrary 1988 to sign Artis Gilmore. Gilmore is not signed
Change 8 celtics are good in 1988 therefore they don't get the 13th pick, bust Michael Smith
But rather get the last pick 27 Kenny Battle who might stick arround as an 11th man or might get cut
Change 9 Celtics are not bad enough to draft Dee Brown at 19 in 1990 so instead end up with 27th pick Elden Campbell who can back up Parish.
Change 10 Parish never leaves, retires summer 1997
Change 11 1992 celtics not bad enough to draft John Barry so draft 1st power forward available at end of draft PJ Brown
Change 12 1993 celtics not bad enough to draft center AC Earl so take 1st center available at end of draft Gheorge Muresan
Change 13 celtics not bad enough to draft Montross at 9 in 1995 so take local boy howard Eisly who was drafted at 30
Change 15 celtics 1995 draft local boy Lou Roe drafted 30 he is a bust
Change 16 1997 draft semi local Travis Knight at end of draft
Non Change 10 Rick Fox drafted at 24 in 1991 slides to the better Celtics at 27
Changes not made, Kevin Gamble still picked up of waivers in 1987
Changes not made, orlando still takes Mark Acres from the Celtics in the expansion draft.
Changes not made, Bird reture Summer 1992
Changes not made McHale retures summer 1993
Changes not made Ainge retires summer of 1995
Changes not made Dennis Johnson retires summer 1990

So 1996-97 Celtics
Center Elden Campbell playing pretty well, power forward PJ Brown playing pretty well, SF LeBron Miller superstar, SG Reggie Lewis great but maybe not a 3 point shooter, PG Terry Porter old 33 still a 3 point shooter

Bench
Last year Of Robert Parish 40 years old, last year of Dino Radja good player, SF Rick Fox good and hitting 3s OK, SG kevinGamble can shoot 31 years old, a bit slow for defending off guards, pG Howard Eisley was playing 14 minutes behind John Stockton breaks out as a 3 point shooter the next year

Bench center Muresan was good this year injuries take him out nex year, pF Lohaus only played 6 games, had a good run in early 1990s as a stretch 4

Bench center Travis Knight, Frisky but soft playing 16 minutes per game for Lakers, Point guard, off guard small forward Brian shaw playing 24 minutes a game for the Magic. He can defend multiple positions and run but he is not much of a shooter

1996-97 does not look like a championship team to me despite Me thinkinking that this LeBron Jame Reggie Miller Hybrid who learned to play pro basket the right way in a motion offense would be a better player than LeBron ever was. Reggie Lewis should still be a strong second option because he got better every year until he dropped dead.

Terry Porter getting old is aproblem. 4 different styles of center is nice. Leadership from Parish is nice. The real celtics had Gamble at SF with Lewis at off guard even though I see Lewis as a small forward shaw can defend. This is a chamionship contender that would probably loose in the conference finals.

[penbeast0]

This is silly. Is there any team in the history of the NBA that you can't add a LeBron/Miller hybrid to (and Terry Porter too!) and with a couple of minor deals for balance you wouldn't have a contender?

Let's look at arguably the worst team in NBA history, the 2011-2012 Charlotte Bobcats. The have the worst record in NBA history, finished 30th in Ortg, 30th in Drtg, and the next year drafted the forgettable Michael Kidd-Gilcrist.

Now add Terry Porter and a LeBron clone with Reggie Miller's near GOAT level 3 point shooting to the mix.

At point guard, you have a young Terry Porter, Kemba Walker who is able to play off ball and develop into a 3 point threat earlier, and young vet DJ Augustin. On the wing you have your LeBron/Reggie clone, Gerald Henderson (who was probably the best player on that team that year), with vet Corey Maggette for scoring off the bench. You could also shift LeBron to PF and start Kemba at the 2 with Henderson as 6th man. For bigs you have one dimensional defensive specialist Bismark Biyombo (but with all that scoring, you don't need a scoring center), and vet Boris Diaw who is at least a capable NBA rotation piece when playing with scorers due to his passing. Maybe Tyrus Thomas develops into something given a more positive environment but it's not necessary.

That's a competitive team, not an NBA champion right away but add a couple of pieces and, more importantly, let the youngsters grow together, and given a good coach and a GM who doesn't screw it up, potentially a title team in a couple of years. LeBron in his first stint in Cleveland took less talent to the finals even without Reggie Miller's 3 point ability.

And that's the worst team in NBA history.

[DirtyDez]

It’s pretty nuts how lucky Boston got getting that draft pick in the top-2. Not only did they luck out having Seattle’s pick that year but Seattle jumped up in the lottery three spots in a two-player draft essentially.

Similarly the Lakers got the #1 pick in 1982 because they had Cleveland’s pick who was terrible and the Lakers won the coin flip vs San Diego for the right to draft James Worthy.

Both teams had top-2 picks after winning a title.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

This is silly. Is there any team in the history of the NBA that you can't add a LeBron/Miller hybrid to (and Terry Porter too!) and with a couple of minor deals for balance you wouldn't have a contender?



Now add Terry Porter and a LeBron clone with Reggie Miller's near GOAT level 3 point shooting to the mix.



.

Terry Porter was Drafted by Portland with Boston Celtics oringinal pick, 24th last pick in the 1st round.
Sam Vincent was Drafted with the Nuggets Pick number 20 by the Celtics.
I had watched the Wisconsin Stevens point NCAA tournament game in which Terry Porter was awesome.
In that Wisconsin Stevens Point game Terry Porter did everything and was not in the role of a catch and shoot outside shooter.
I really want my Celtics to draft Terry Porter. I was sold on Terry Porter based on what he did in the NCAA tournament.
I did not know anything about Sam Vincent except that he was Jay Vincent's brother. Sam Vicincent was probabably faster than Porter at driving to the hoop from the outside. The Celtics gave up on Sam Vincent after a few years and then Sam Vincent got to be the statarting point guard playing with Jordan in 1988. Then in late 1988 the Bulls turned Jordan into the point guard and replaced Sam Vincent with I think Craig Hodges functioning as the shooting off guard. Jordan had great assist numbers in his month of playing point guard.

Lenny Bias, what would he have become ? Celtics draft him number 2 after the Cavs take center Sam Daugherty at number 1. It was a weak draft in terms of depth and it was during the cocaine epidemic. After getting drafted Bias went out partying with Cocaine and emediately died. Reggie Miller was in that Draft.

The Celtics started 1986-87 like they did 1985-86. Their bench was Bill Walton, Scott Wedman and functional half decent point guard Jerry Sichting who played a sort of Terry Porter Role of catch and shoot taking what the Celtics offense generated.

Clyde Drexler's role as the lead play maker is what put Terry Porter into the catch and shoot role as a point guard. Playing with Bird and one of Dennis Johnson or Ainge as ball handlers put Sichting into a similar role to Terry Porter but Terry Porter was like a better version of Sichting.

How good would Lenny Bias have been?

Then I have an issue with LeBron. The 2015-2019 Warriors motion offense is clearly a better offense than a Westbrook or LeBron stagnant drive and kick offense where everybody stands arround at the 3 point line and watches Westbrook or LeBron do their thing. When you surround LeBron with enough good shooters the LeBron dominant offense actually works pretty well because LeBron against his own man and one help defender isa pretty efficient scorer at the rim. And LeBron can find an unguarded 3 point shooter.

But how would LeBron have been playing in a motion offense? Cavs gave LeBron a competant pointguard in Mo Williams but zleBron was already pretty locked in to being the ball dominant drive and kick point guard.

Who would LeBron have been if he was drafted by a good team. LeBron replacing James Worthy is easy to understand, but too bad that Norm Nixon would be gone. Imagine Showtime with LeBron Magic and Nixon?

But what about in the half court?

The reason I tacked Reggie Miller onto LeBron is to guarantee that LeBron would know how to play off the ball even as a rookie. LeBron just was not that great of a shooter, probably not even as good as Reggie Lewis who was also a disturbing surprise death. Lewis dying ended the Celtics as legitimate championship contenders. Lewis was not a 3 point sshooter but he was very good from mid range and very good at driving to the rim.

Lewis gives the best clue at how LeBron might have fit with the Celtics.

Walton and Wedman quickly had career ending injuries in 1986-87. Sichting was also out with Injuries much of that season and would soon be outbof the league. KC Jones plays his starters 40 minutes per game in the regular season rather than develop a bench.

To me Darren Daye despite whatever flaws he had was the obvious choice to be the Starting small forward on that team. Put McHale back in his 6th man role that he had when Maxwell started. Put Bird back at his natural position which was power forward. But there is a reason Darren Daye bounced from team to team. It wasn't offense. On offense Daye fit well with Bird and Parrish. KC Jones doesn't play players ge doesn't trust. KC Jones preffrerred Fred Roberts to Daye. Fred Roberts at small forward was very tall but Fred Robert had no game on offense.

What if it was LeBron but the paint was clogged Because Bird and Parrish were working inside. DJ not being a shooter means his man is also sagging into the paint. What would LeBron have turned himself into if he was playing with DJ, Ainge Bird and Parrish? The mid range would be open could LeBron have become the master of catch and shoot mid range? The Celtics always hit cutters to the rim. We know LeBron would make a fine cutter to the rim.

But I can't get the image of LeBron pounding the rock at the 3 point line, burning shot clock, waiting for the right time to drive and kick to present itself out of my head. Would LeBron have been something else if he had been a rookie on a good team that already knew how to move without the ball?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Who do the Celtics draft if Len Bias dies before the draft.
Pick 3 was Chris Washburn, did cocaine take him out or was he just emotionally defective?
The hole in the Celtics Roster was small foward especially if they know that Wedman will be injured.
Bird is a power forward. All ou people thinking Bird was a small forward are wrong. Bird can play small forward but then he is playing out of position

The 4th pick was Chuck Person a small forward who has a career rather than dying.
So maybe the thread would be better if I dropped LeBron and Reggie Miller and just go with what happens if Le Bias dies before the draft and the Celtics draft Chuck Person.

[penbeast0]

Adding Chuck Person and Terry Porter makes more sense, the problem with an improved LeBron is he's just too good to add to an existing team.

And Darren Daye wasn't a bad defender when he was with Washington, the team that drafted him. Typical rookie but put in the effort. I thought he deserved more burn than he got there too. The only thing I can think of is that either (a) he wasn't good at staying within team schemes or (b) he wasn't a good practice player.