RealGM

defining floor raising as teams with average to weak supporting casts than a great superstar seasom made into great teams

without a deep dive i would supposed lebron 2009 season may be the best floor raising effort ever

but others like 2022 jokic or 94 hakeem may challenge it depending on criteria

1977 Kareem is definitely up there. He led the Lakers to the best record in the league (5th best SRS) without competent guard rotation and with their starting PF missing 29 games (and playoffs). Then their starting PG got injured in playoffs and Jabbar had to do it all by himself.

I've never seen a bigman carrying his team on both ends of the floor as much as 1977 Kareem did in playoffs:



Jokic might be close, but even he has much more talent around him.

David Robinson 1996 Spurs comes to mind. Look at this 59 win roster

C. David Robinson
PF. Charles Smith/Will Perdue
SF. Sean Elliot
SG. Vinny Del Negro
PG. Avery Johnson

Chuck Person, Doc Rivers

sp6r=underrated wrote:David Robinson 1996 Spurs comes to mind. Look at this 59 win roster

C. David Robinson
PF. Charles Smith/Will Perdue
SF. Sean Elliot
SG. Vinny Del Negro
PG. Avery Johnson

Chuck Person, Doc Rivers

that is really impressive

sp6r=underrated wrote:David Robinson 1996 Spurs comes to mind. Look at this 59 win roster

C. David Robinson
PF. Charles Smith/Will Perdue
SF. Sean Elliot
SG. Vinny Del Negro
PG. Avery Johnson

Chuck Person, Doc Rivers

This would be my vote. DRob is the greatest floor raiser imo and there are a few seasons that could be submitted......

I always like to mention '04 Andrei Kirilenko in these ones. 42-40 with this squad.

Player - Minutes
Andrei Kirilenko - 2895
Greg Ostertag - 2153 (last meaningful season)
Raja Bell - 2020
Carlos Arroyo - 2008
Jarron Collins - 1732
Raul Lopez - 1617 (rookie)
DeShawn Stevenson - 1511 (traded near the deadline for Gordan Giricek)
Sasha Pavlovic - 1144 (rookie)
Matt Harpring - 1134 (missed 51 games due to injury)

Dirk 07 for names that havent been mentioned

that team had no business sniffing 60 wins let alone 67. Their clutch record was insanity and he pulled alot of wins out of his ass in crunch time

Devin Harris
Jason Terry
Josh Howard
Dirk
Erick Dampier

Jerry Stackhouse, Desagna Diop, Devean George, Greg Buckner off bench

Buckner was out of the league in 2 seasons
Devean was out of the league in 3 seasons
Diop only played 240 games in the next 6 seasons and was a 13th man the rest of his career
Stackhouse was much the same as Diop and was washed up
Dampier was a below avg center that was okay on defense and couldnt do anything else

AI, Westbrook, and Harden

Jordan 1990 and 91

Rookie Wilt Chamberlain:
37.6 PPG
27.0 RPG
2.3 APG
49.3 TS%
(+3.0 rTS%)

Anchored the second best defence in the league, and fourth best defence in Warriors history:

1959 Warriors went from
(32-40) Record —> (49-26) Record
(-0.9 rDRTG) —> (-4.3 rDRTG)

Obligatory mention of KG squeezing 32 wins out of the rock that were the 2007 Wolves.

eminence wrote:I always like to mention '04 Andrei Kirilenko in these ones. 42-40 with this squad.

Player - Minutes
Andrei Kirilenko - 2895
Greg Ostertag - 2153 (last meaningful season)
Raja Bell - 2020
Carlos Arroyo - 2008
Jarron Collins - 1732
Raul Lopez - 1617 (rookie)
DeShawn Stevenson - 1511 (traded near the deadline for Gordan Giricek)
Sasha Pavlovic - 1144 (rookie)
Matt Harpring - 1134 (missed 51 games due to injury)

That's the GOAT Greg Ostertag for you.

Connie Hawkins and the 68 Pipers.

Pulled a team of Ira Harge (injured for the playoffs), Trooper Washington, Art Heyman, Chico Vaughn, and Charlie Williams to the #1 offensive rating in the league then picked up his game even more in the playoffs to lead the team to the league championship. Everyone was confused and disorganized in the ABA's first year but none of those players went on to become a star even in the ABA (Charlie Williams was sort of like Mo Williams with LeBron; probably the most successful).

Jaivl wrote:Obligatory mention of KG squeezing 32 wins out of the rock that were the 2007 Wolves.

eminence wrote:I always like to mention '04 Andrei Kirilenko in these ones. 42-40 with this squad.

Player - Minutes
Andrei Kirilenko - 2895
Greg Ostertag - 2153 (last meaningful season)
Raja Bell - 2020
Carlos Arroyo - 2008
Jarron Collins - 1732
Raul Lopez - 1617 (rookie)
DeShawn Stevenson - 1511 (traded near the deadline for Gordan Giricek)
Sasha Pavlovic - 1144 (rookie)
Matt Harpring - 1134 (missed 51 games due to injury)

That's the GOAT Greg Ostertag for you.

If all we are looking for is 42-40, Tmac in 2003 did a similar job though I like the AK47 mention. Have to support the defensive studs.

70sFan wrote:I've never seen a bigman carrying his team on both ends of the floor as much as 1977 Kareem did in playoffs:

Jokic might be close, but even he has much more talent around him.

This is an interesting question. Who had better teammates- 2022 Jokic or 1977 Kareem?

% Of Team's Win Shares:
Jokic: 32.4%
KAJ: 37.8%

Of course, rosters have expanded significantly since 1977, so this is unfair to Jokic.

PER: (15 is scaled to league average)

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: 15.3
Allen: 15.6
Chaney: 10.2
Ford: 11.7
Abernathy: 12.7
Washington: 16.0
Tatum: 16.5

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: 15.4
Barton: 14.2
Morris: 14.4
Green: 12.5
Camparzzo: 12.0
Rivers: 7.4
Hyland: 10.9

WS/48 (.100 is scaled to league average):

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: .123
Allen: .094
Chaney: .058
Ford: .076
Abernathy: .110
Washington: .153
Tatum: .101

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: .110
Barton: .076
Morris: .110
Green: .102
Camparzzo: .097
Rivers: .032
Hyland: .027

Speaking of "carry jobs", this makes me wonder...what's the deepest a team has ever gone/most wins a team has ever had in the playoffs without their 2nd AND 3rd best players for the entire season (i.e., 2022 Nuggets)?

With Peja and Tyson Chandler injured or playing as shells of themselves due to these injuries, 2009 Hornets. The rest of the team besides West and Paul weren't in an NBA rotation the next year (including Peja and TC who were still recovering the next year. The only one whose career continued after that season was Rasual Butler who eventually got time on the awful Clippers bench

migya wrote:Jordan 1990 and 91

You think 91 MJ had a weak supporting cast?

ty 4191 wrote:

70sFan wrote:I've never seen a bigman carrying his team on both ends of the floor as much as 1977 Kareem did in playoffs:

Jokic might be close, but even he has much more talent around him.

This is an interesting question. Who had better teammates- 2022 Jokic or 1977 Kareem?

% Of Team's Win Shares:
Jokic: 32.4%
KAJ: 37.8%

Of course, rosters have expanded significantly since 1977, so this is unfair to Jokic.

PER: (15 is scaled to league average)

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: 15.3
Allen: 15.6
Chaney: 10.2
Ford: 11.7
Abernathy: 12.7
Washington: 16.0
Tatum: 16.5

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: 15.4
Barton: 14.2
Morris: 14.4
Green: 12.5
Camparzzo: 12.0
Rivers: 7.4
Hyland: 10.9

WS/48 (.100 is scaled to league average):

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: .123
Allen: .094
Chaney: .058
Ford: .076
Abernathy: .110
Washington: .153
Tatum: .101

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: .110
Barton: .076
Morris: .110
Green: .102
Camparzzo: .097
Rivers: .032
Hyland: .027

Speaking of "carry jobs", this makes me wonder...what's the deepest a team has ever gone/most wins a team has ever had in the playoffs without their 2nd AND 3rd best players for the entire season (i.e., 2022 Nuggets)?

Well, it's interesting debate but you have to keep in mind that Lakers were clearly better than the Nuggets. So even if these casts are comparable, Kareem led them to the higher success in RS.

70sFan wrote:

ty 4191 wrote:

70sFan wrote:I've never seen a bigman carrying his team on both ends of the floor as much as 1977 Kareem did in playoffs:

Jokic might be close, but even he has much more talent around him.

This is an interesting question. Who had better teammates- 2022 Jokic or 1977 Kareem?

% Of Team's Win Shares:
Jokic: 32.4%
KAJ: 37.8%

Of course, rosters have expanded significantly since 1977, so this is unfair to Jokic.

PER: (15 is scaled to league average)

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: 15.3
Allen: 15.6
Chaney: 10.2
Ford: 11.7
Abernathy: 12.7
Washington: 16.0
Tatum: 16.5

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: 15.4
Barton: 14.2
Morris: 14.4
Green: 12.5
Camparzzo: 12.0
Rivers: 7.4
Hyland: 10.9

WS/48 (.100 is scaled to league average):

77' Lakers Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Russell: .123
Allen: .094
Chaney: .058
Ford: .076
Abernathy: .110
Washington: .153
Tatum: .101

22' Nuggets Teammates (Top 7 in MP)
Gordon: .110
Barton: .076
Morris: .110
Green: .102
Camparzzo: .097
Rivers: .032
Hyland: .027

Speaking of "carry jobs", this makes me wonder...what's the deepest a team has ever gone/most wins a team has ever had in the playoffs without their 2nd AND 3rd best players for the entire season (i.e., 2022 Nuggets)?

Well, it's interesting debate but you have to keep in mind that Lakers were clearly better than the Nuggets. So even if these casts are comparable, Kareem led them to the higher success in RS.

Conversely though, I'd argue Jokic's greatest advantage is in his incredible passing (not that Kareem was bad). This will tend to make teammates more productive/efficient than their underlying talent level would typically display and thus arguably artificially inflating their numbers.

LeBron James -- 2009 & 2010 Cavaliers

Starting point is the 2009 Cavaliers, where the roster is not rich in talent but the pieces fit nicely and the players importantly healthy [thus available to play].

2009 Cavaliers (66 Wins, 8.68 SRS):
Mo Williams 2834 Minutes
Anderson Verajao 2306 Minutes
Delonte West 2152 Minutes
Daniel Gibson 1795 Minutes
Zydrunus Ilgauskas 1765 Minutes
Wally Szczerbiak 1527 Minutes
Ben Wallace 1314 Minutes
Sasha Pavlovic 1053 Minues
J.J. Hickson 704 Minutes

2010 Cavaliers (61 Wins, 6.17 SRS)
Mo Williams 2359 Minutes [-17% of minutes]
Anthony Parker 2289 Minutes
Anderson Verajao 2166 Minutes [-6% Minutes]
J.J. Hickson 1699 Minutes [+140% Minutes]
Delonte West 1500 Minutes [-30%]
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 1339 Minutes [-24% Minutes]
Shaquille O'Neal 1240 Minutes
Daniel Gibson 1068 [-40% Minutes]
Jamario Moon 1052 Minutes
Antawn Jamison 811 Minutes
Jawad Williams 752 Minutes