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GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:22 am
by zimpy27
I mapped out each era in 15 year lots as 15 years is about the average years of a great NBA career. Also I found there was a 15 year difference before the 3pt line was introduced and when they saw a big bump in 3s by dragging 3-line closer. This feels like a natural era line in itself. So I based the eras around this major change in the NBA to keep it unbiased from being player defined.
These are the 15 seasons/years of each era
1949 to 1964 - the early beginnings
1964 to 1979 - this era incorporates ABA too
1979 to 1994 - introduction of the 3-line but before it was used consistently
1994 to 2009 - defense rule changes
2009 to 2024 - pace and space
Who do you have as the greatest player from each era?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:35 am
by falcolombardi
the big problem is often that some guys get their best years cut in half when people make greatest of this era or greatest of this decade lists and there is not a easy solution to make it fairer
within the time spans you gave
1-bill russel, hm: mikan
2- kareem, hm: wilt
3-Jordan, hm: magic and bird
4- Duncan, hm: shaq
5- LeBron, hm: curry
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:41 am
by zimpy27
falcolombardi wrote:the big problem is often that some guys get their best years cut in half when people make greatest of this era or greatest of this decade lists and there is not a easy solution to make it fairer
within the time spans you gave
1-bill russel, hm: mikan
2- kareem, hm: wilt
3-Jordan, hm: magic and bird
4- Duncan, hm: shaq
5- LeBron, hm: curry
I agree with your list entirely. That would have been my exact list might have made an honourable mention of Wilt behind Russell too, would have had Hakeem, Durant and Giannis as honourable mentions too.
I think to make it fairer you can highlight guys who had their best cut in half by separating the eras this way. Wilt is probably the guy most affected by this split. Is anyone else really impacted?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:52 am
by falcolombardi
zimpy27 wrote:falcolombardi wrote:the big problem is often that some guys get their best years cut in half when people make greatest of this era or greatest of this decade lists and there is not a easy solution to make it fairer
within the time spans you gave
1-bill russel, hm: mikan
2- kareem, hm: wilt
3-Jordan, hm: magic and bird
4- Duncan, hm: shaq
5- LeBron, hm: curry
I agree with your list entirely. That would have been my exact list might have made an honourable mention of Wilt behind Russell too, would have had Hakeem, Durant and Giannis as honourable mentions too.
I think to make it fairer you can highlight guys who had their best cut in half by separating the eras this way. Wilt is probably the guy most affected by this split. Is anyone else really impacted?
i dont think he beats duncan either way but kobe case is hurt by the cut off after 2008, more so than duncan and shaq comparitively speaking
giannis and jokic will have their case hurt for the next 15 years pick, doncic has the inside track there thanks to age and timing
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:55 am
by zimpy27
1949 to 1964 - Bill Russell, HM: Wilt
1964 to 1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, HM: Wilt
1979 to 1994 - Michael Jordan, HM: Magic, Bird, Hakeem
1994 to 2009 - Tim Duncan, HM: Shaq, Kobe, Garnett
2009 to 2024 - LeBron James, HM: Durant, Curry, Giannis
That's probably the top 15 all time right?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:04 am
by sp6r=underrated
IMO
1960s: Clear GOTE, Bill Russell
1970s: Clear GOTE, Kareem
1980s: No GOTE, between Magic/Bird
1989-1998: MJ
1999-2008: No GOTE, probably the most contest era for GOTE. I don't think any did enough to clearly seize the title.
2009-Present: Lebron
Note this list is only rough and it doesn't mean the player was necessarily the best player each of those years.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:35 am
by eminence
Don't think I could do it quite according to those years, but I have the line of succession go basically like this:
Mikan
Russell
KAJ
Magic/Bird
MJ
Duncan
LeBron
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:23 am
by zimpy27
The problem with having an era for each decade is that you have significant changes in the game happening in the mid 90s. An era to me is defined by the rules of the game and the popular game style.
So perhaps having eras of different year divisions based on rules and game style is best way to do it.
If you craft it so you can have certain players getting recognized then you're really just showing bias. The concept of eras breaks down. It just ends up being a top 10 list and not a GOTE list.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:36 am
by 70sFan
zimpy27 wrote:1949 to 1964 - Bill Russell, HM: Wilt
1964 to 1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, HM: Wilt
1979 to 1994 - Michael Jordan, HM: Magic, Bird, Hakeem
1994 to 2009 - Tim Duncan, HM: Shaq, Kobe, Garnett
2009 to 2024 - LeBron James, HM: Durant, Curry, Giannis
That's probably the top 15 all time right?
I would exclude Giannis for now and replace him with Oscar or West (though Oscar is hurt by these eras). Julius Erving is also hurt by the choice of eras.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:04 am
by zimpy27
70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:1949 to 1964 - Bill Russell, HM: Wilt
1964 to 1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, HM: Wilt
1979 to 1994 - Michael Jordan, HM: Magic, Bird, Hakeem
1994 to 2009 - Tim Duncan, HM: Shaq, Kobe, Garnett
2009 to 2024 - LeBron James, HM: Durant, Curry, Giannis
That's probably the top 15 all time right?
I would exclude Giannis for now and replace him with Oscar or West (though Oscar is hurt by these eras). Julius Erving is also hurt by the choice of eras.
True Big O prob gets in.
Do you feel that LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell, Duncan are a close representation of the top 5 all time?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:11 am
by 70sFan
zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:1949 to 1964 - Bill Russell, HM: Wilt
1964 to 1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, HM: Wilt
1979 to 1994 - Michael Jordan, HM: Magic, Bird, Hakeem
1994 to 2009 - Tim Duncan, HM: Shaq, Kobe, Garnett
2009 to 2024 - LeBron James, HM: Durant, Curry, Giannis
That's probably the top 15 all time right?
I would exclude Giannis for now and replace him with Oscar or West (though Oscar is hurt by these eras). Julius Erving is also hurt by the choice of eras.
True Big O prob gets in.
Do you feel that LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell, Duncan are a close representation of the top 5 all time?
That's my top 5, so yeah definitely
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:19 am
by zimpy27
70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:I would exclude Giannis for now and replace him with Oscar or West (though Oscar is hurt by these eras). Julius Erving is also hurt by the choice of eras.
True Big O prob gets in.
Do you feel that LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell, Duncan are a close representation of the top 5 all time?
That's my top 5, so yeah definitely
That's cool, it's not mine but it's cool that without pre-defining the eras based on players that it comes out that way. I'd say it's probably expected since being the best in an era likely elevates someone on an all time list.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:43 am
by 70sFan
zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
True Big O prob gets in.
Do you feel that LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell, Duncan are a close representation of the top 5 all time?
That's my top 5, so yeah definitely
That's cool, it's not mine but it's cool that without pre-defining the eras based on players that it comes out that way. I'd say it's probably expected since being the best in an era likely elevates someone on an all time list.
Who do you have inside your top 5?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:03 am
by feyki
zimpy27 wrote:I mapped out each era in 15 year lots as 15 years is about the average years of a great NBA career. Also I found there was a 15 year difference before the 3pt line was introduced and when they saw a big bump in 3s by dragging 3-line closer. This feels like a natural era line in itself. So I based the eras around this major change in the NBA to keep it unbiased from being player defined.
These are the 15 seasons/years of each era
1949 to 1964 - the early beginnings - Dolph Schayes
1964 to 1979 - this era incorporates ABA too - Havlicek
1979 to 1994 - introduction of the 3-line but before it was used consistently - Magic
1994 to 2009 - defense rule changes - Shaq
2009 to 2024 - pace and space - Durant
Who do you have as the greatest player from each era?
My era's list:
45/55 - Mikan
56/64 - Russell
65/77 - Havlicek
78/83 - Moses
84/98 - Jordan
99/04 - Shaq
05/16 - Lebron
17/22 - Harden
.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:26 am
by zimpy27
70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:That's my top 5, so yeah definitely
That's cool, it's not mine but it's cool that without pre-defining the eras based on players that it comes out that way. I'd say it's probably expected since being the best in an era likely elevates someone on an all time list.
Who do you have inside your top 5?
The 4 is LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell as the Mt Rushmore
The 5th has changed for me over time, Hakeem is who I have as 5th right now but used to be Shaq. I suppose Duncan is a close call. Those 3 are tough for me. Can see Giannis popping in there eventually too.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:34 am
by 70sFan
feyki wrote:zimpy27 wrote:I mapped out each era in 15 year lots as 15 years is about the average years of a great NBA career. Also I found there was a 15 year difference before the 3pt line was introduced and when they saw a big bump in 3s by dragging 3-line closer. This feels like a natural era line in itself. So I based the eras around this major change in the NBA to keep it unbiased from being player defined.
These are the 15 seasons/years of each era
1949 to 1964 - the early beginnings - Dolph Schayes
1964 to 1979 - this era incorporates ABA too - Havlicek
1979 to 1994 - introduction of the 3-line but before it was used consistently - Magic
1994 to 2009 - defense rule changes - Shaq
2009 to 2024 - pace and space - Durant
Who do you have as the greatest player from each era?
My era's list:
45/55 - Mikan
56/64 - Russell
65/77 - Havlicek
78/83 - Moses
84/98 - Jordan
99/04 - Shaq
05/16 - Lebron
17/22 - Harden
.
Havlicek over Kareem or Wilt is a nice joke.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:39 am
by 70sFan
zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
That's cool, it's not mine but it's cool that without pre-defining the eras based on players that it comes out that way. I'd say it's probably expected since being the best in an era likely elevates someone on an all time list.
Who do you have inside your top 5?
The 4 is LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell as the Mt Rushmore
The 5th has changed for me over time, Hakeem is who I have as 5th right now but used to be Shaq. I suppose Duncan is a close call. Those 3 are tough for me. Can see Giannis popping in there eventually too.
I think Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq and Wilt is the next tier after GOAT candidates and you can put them in any order. Do you think Wilt belongs to this tier as well?
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:45 am
by feyki
70sFan wrote:feyki wrote:zimpy27 wrote:I mapped out each era in 15 year lots as 15 years is about the average years of a great NBA career. Also I found there was a 15 year difference before the 3pt line was introduced and when they saw a big bump in 3s by dragging 3-line closer. This feels like a natural era line in itself. So I based the eras around this major change in the NBA to keep it unbiased from being player defined.
These are the 15 seasons/years of each era
1949 to 1964 - the early beginnings - Dolph Schayes
1964 to 1979 - this era incorporates ABA too - Havlicek
1979 to 1994 - introduction of the 3-line but before it was used consistently - Magic
1994 to 2009 - defense rule changes - Shaq
2009 to 2024 - pace and space - Durant
Who do you have as the greatest player from each era?
My era's list:
45/55 - Mikan
56/64 - Russell
65/77 - Havlicek
78/83 - Moses
84/98 - Jordan
99/04 - Shaq
05/16 - Lebron
17/22 - Harden
.
Havlicek over Kareem or Wilt is a nice joke.
I would take easily Havlicek's career over half of the Wilt's and the KAJ's.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:09 am
by zimpy27
70sFan wrote:zimpy27 wrote:70sFan wrote:Who do you have inside your top 5?
The 4 is LeBron, Jordan, KAJ, Russell as the Mt Rushmore
The 5th has changed for me over time, Hakeem is who I have as 5th right now but used to be Shaq. I suppose Duncan is a close call. Those 3 are tough for me. Can see Giannis popping in there eventually too.
I think Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq and Wilt is the next tier after GOAT candidates and you can put them in any order. Do you think Wilt belongs to this tier as well?
I have Wilt usually at 8th, then have Magic, Bird, Garnett, Kobe, Big O in some order.
Re: GOTE : Greatest of the era
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:11 am
by coastalmarker99
Kareem's first 5 years in the NBA was just unreal.
In his first 5 seasons:
He won 3 MVPs and it should have been four by the way as he was totally robbed in 1973.
He also won 1 FMVP award and it easily could have been two if not for his teammates completely underperforming in the 1974 finals.
And finally, if the DPOY award was around back then.
Kareem would have won the award in 1971 and 1974.
So for someone to say that they would take Havlicek's career over half of KAJ's is just plain disgraceful.