Worst "star" defense

Post #1 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:22 pm

Taking only seasons in which a player was named to an All-NBA team into account, who are the worst defensive players ever to win such as accolade since the NBA/ABA merger? Off the top of my head:

C A'mare
F Barkley
F Vandeweghe
G Maravich
G Isaiah

Dr Positivity · Post #2 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:39 pm

I think Harden being on here is only right

The Explorer · Post #3 » by **The Explorer** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:49 pm

Steve Nash for sure

Post #4 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:50 pm

The Explorer wrote:Steve Nash for sure

Dr Positivity wrote:I think Harden being on here is only right

Do you have Maravich or Isaiah as better than Harden/Nash defensively? The guy I'm looking to find someone worse than is Barkley, who at least could hold position and provide defensive rebounding. I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion.

The Explorer · Post #5 » by **The Explorer** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:53 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
The Explorer wrote:Steve Nash for sure

Dr Positivity wrote:I think Harden being on here is only right

Do you have Maravich or Isaiah as better than Harden/Nash defensively? The guy I'm looking to find someone worse than is Barkley, who at least could hold position and provide defensive rebounding. I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion.

I can't speak on Maravich defense much, but Nash was a turnstyle on defense. In fact I would go as far to say he was one of the worst pg defenders of all time.

Rich Michmond · Post #6 » by **Rich Michmond** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:50 pm

I think Trae Young is worse than Nash, though he hasn't made an All-NBA team (neither did Vandeweghe but he is mentioned in the OP, so I'm giving Trae a "shout"). Also, Nate Archibald.

Dr Positivity · Post #7 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:03 pm

Isaiah is the right pick at PG, his +/- stats for D were as bad as it gets

Post #8 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:13 pm

Rich Michmond wrote:I think Trae Young is worse than Nash, though he hasn't made an All-NBA team (neither did Vandeweghe but he is mentioned in the OP, so I'm giving Trae a "shout"). Also, Nate Archibald.

Ah, thanks, thought I remembered Kiki as having one. So, we need an equally bad defender at forward still.

Barkley is still a candidate, Gervin, Nique, Carmelo, Dantley, Rice, Dale Ellis, Lou Hudson, David Lee (he made an All-NBA team!), Julius Randle, Zach Randolph, Schrempf, or Peja. Who were the worst defensively?

70sFan · Post #9 » by **70sFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:42 pm

Nash was far better defender than Thomas, come on...

I'd prefer someone else at PF. Barkley wasn't good defender, but I don't think he was all-time bad.

70sFan · Post #10 » by **70sFan** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:45 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Rich Michmond wrote:I think Trae Young is worse than Nash, though he hasn't made an All-NBA team (neither did Vandeweghe but he is mentioned in the OP, so I'm giving Trae a "shout"). Also, Nate Archibald.

Ah, thanks, thought I remembered Kiki as having one. So, we need an equally bad defender at forward still.

Barkley is still a candidate, Gervin, Nique, Carmelo, Dantley, Rice, Dale Ellis, Lou Hudson, David Lee (he made an All-NBA team!), Julius Randle, Zach Randolph, Schrempf, or Peja. Who were the worst defensively?

Don't think Gervin, Melo, Dantley and Hudson were bad enough to be considered. Can't think about anyone else for now.

For guards, I'd consider Calvin Murphy. From games I've seen, not only he was extremely undersized at SG, but he was also very bad off-ball, often missing his man and losing rotations.

Colbinii · Post #11 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:46 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
The Explorer wrote:Steve Nash for sure

Dr Positivity wrote:I think Harden being on here is only right

Do you have Maravich or Isaiah as better than Harden/Nash defensively? The guy I'm looking to find someone worse than is Barkley, who at least could hold position and provide defensive rebounding. I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion.

1997 Glen Rice?

picko · Post #12 » by **picko** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:09 pm

I totally forgot that there is a second Isiah and I thought everyone was being very disrespectful to the Piston's legend.

Post #13 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:13 pm

Colbinii wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
The Explorer wrote:Steve Nash for sure

Dr Positivity wrote:I think Harden being on here is only right

Do you have Maravich or Isaiah as better than Harden/Nash defensively? The guy I'm looking to find someone worse than is Barkley, who at least could hold position and provide defensive rebounding. I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion.

1997 Glen Rice?

Rice works at forward, was he really that bad?

CumberlandPosey · Post #14 » by **CumberlandPosey** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:20 pm

tatum at the forward position doesnt exactly scream defense.havent looked at any numbers.its hard being worse than sir charles...

Post #15 » by **Prez** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:29 pm

CumberlandPosey wrote:tatum at the forward position doesnt exactly scream defense.havent looked at any numbers.its hard being worse than sir charles...

Ehhh Tatum is a terrific defensive player imo.

Dr Positivity · Post #16 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:36 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Rich Michmond wrote:I think Trae Young is worse than Nash, though he hasn't made an All-NBA team (neither did Vandeweghe but he is mentioned in the OP, so I'm giving Trae a "shout"). Also, Nate Archibald.

Ah, thanks, thought I remembered Kiki as having one. So, we need an equally bad defender at forward still.

Barkley is still a candidate, Gervin, Nique, Carmelo, Dantley, Rice, Dale Ellis, Lou Hudson, David Lee (he made an All-NBA team!), Julius Randle, Zach Randolph, Schrempf, or Peja. Who were the worst defensively?

Avid Lee is a great Barkley replacement

euroleague · Post #17 » by **euroleague** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:58 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:

Do you have Maravich or Isaiah as better than Harden/Nash defensively? The guy I'm looking to find someone worse than is Barkley, who at least could hold position and provide defensive rebounding. I'm sure someone will have a good suggestion.

1997 Glen Rice?

Rice works at forward, was he really that bad?

I remember him as quite good, played a solid role on the 00 Lakers being the #1 defensive team

Colbinii · Post #18 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:16 am

euroleague wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
1997 Glen Rice?

Rice works at forward, was he really that bad?

I remember him as quite good, played a solid role on the 00 Lakers being the #1 defensive team

I dont think so...

When looking at the 2000 Lakers, Rice ranks...

Lowest DBPM
Lowest Individual DRTG
Historically low STL and BLK rates
Team Worst Defensive Rating On/Off of +5.3
In fact, without Rice on the floor, the Lakers were a historically great defense [-9.7 rel LG Avg]

euroleague · Post #19 » by **euroleague** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:58 am

Colbinii wrote:
euroleague wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
Rice works at forward, was he really that bad?

I remember him as quite good, played a solid role on the 00 Lakers being the #1 defensive team

I dont think so...

When looking at the 2000 Lakers, Rice ranks...

Lowest DBPM
Lowest Individual DRTG
Historically low STL and BLK rates
Team Worst Defensive Rating On/Off of +5.3
In fact, without Rice on the floor, the Lakers were a historically great defense [-9.7 rel LG Avg]

Do you know how DRTG and DBPM are calculated? Those don’t measure defense, at all...

The Lakers were a great defense with him.

Post #20 » by **penbeast0** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:07 am

Colbinii wrote:
euroleague wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
Rice works at forward, was he really that bad?

I remember him as quite good, played a solid role on the 00 Lakers being the #1 defensive team

I dont think so...

When looking at the 2000 Lakers, Rice ranks...

Lowest DBPM
Lowest Individual DRTG
Historically low STL and BLK rates
Team Worst Defensive Rating On/Off of +5.3
In fact, without Rice on the floor, the Lakers were a historically great defense [-9.7 rel LG Avg]

You know who really had historically low STL and BLK ratings? Joe Dumars. So, still getting no agreement on the forwards on the team (and some disagreement over Nash v. Maravich next to Isaiah).