Mirror Images: Past vs Present

[GeorgeMarcus]

Peaks across the board... Who takes a 7 game series?

Team 1
Dikembe Mutombo
Rashard Lewis
Scottie Pippen
Mitch Richmond
Chauncey Billups

Team 2
Rudy Gobert
Tobias Harris
Jimmy Butler
Devon Booker
Kyle Lowry

[Im Your Father]

I like the on ball playmakers for team 2 more so i guess them by a hair, but it’s very close IMO. Also very good comparisons.

[PistolPeteJR]

Ditto. Really great comps. Really having a hard time deciding who to take between the Cs… I’d take Lewis over Harris, Pip over Butler with the team compositions, Booker over Richmond and Lowry over Billups, so really a tossup…

Can someone make an argument for either center?

[GeorgeMarcus]

Can someone make an argument for either center?

Defensively it's hard for me to separate the 2 (maybe someone else can offer some insight). Offensively Gobert is a better rim runner/lob threat while Mutombo had more of a back to the basket game with his goofy hook shot. I probably favor Gobert ever so slightly because I'm biased toward bigs with more of an off ball presence.

[trex_8063]

Can someone make an argument for either center?

Defensively it's hard for me to separate the 2 (maybe someone else can offer some insight). Offensively Gobert is a better rim runner/lob threat while Mutombo had more of a back to the basket game with his goofy hook shot. I probably favor Gobert ever so slightly because I'm biased toward bigs with more of an off ball presence.

I actually don't think they're all that close offensively [at least not within any remotely recent context].

Yeah, Dikembe had a [slightly] better back to the basket game, but let's face it: dumping it to Mutombo in the post is not exactly efficient offense, particularly when you note his turnover economy (which is wretched). So the fact that Dikembe can maybe do marginally better in a "Kobiyashi Maru" type situation (a no-win scenario you should almost never intentionally go to in the first place) means relatively little [to me].

Rudy, otoh, is a notably better finisher around the rim. We only have data from '97 and on for Mutombo, but that includes multiple years of his prime, including ALL of his years in Atlanta [which many consider to be his best all-around years], and his single-best season for finishing at the rim is 72.8%.......Rudy's career average is 73.8%. He's finishing 80% this year, which is a sort of all-time level finishing. Yeah, it's small [opportunistic] volume, but......Dikembe was very small volume too (mostly smaller volume than Rudy is scoring this year, in fact).

And it's his threat as a roll-man, along with the quality of screens that he sets [more on that below], that opens up the "3pt scramble" for the Utah offense (the #1 in the league Utah offense). This is relevant in any circumstance where you have decent spacing [which is pretty much the case with either of these teams, but ESPECIALLY with the roster you've assembled for Gobert].

I'll give the definitive nod to Rudy in terms of quality of screens (an underrated skill). Doris Burke just stated in a recent game how Gobert is one of the few players who takes pride in the quality of his screen-setting. Not that this is a huge, Earth-moving skill, but it does definitely add value, and is often overlooked unless we're discussing Wes Unseld**.

**Whereas with nearly any other player the value of screen-setting is almost laughed off, with Unseld it's quickly pointed out as a valuable factor in why he was the 1969 MVP. But Unseld isn't a tremendous historic outlier in this skill [even if he is the best]. If it bears relevance for him, it does for others, too [like Gobert]. I'd even go so far as to suggest Rudy's among the top 10 [perhaps top 5?] best screen-setters ever.

He's also a little better offensive rebounder than Mutombo. Rudy's got a career avg of 5.5 orebs/100 [12.6% OREB%] vs Mutombo's 5.4 orebs/100 [11.9% OREB%].......this despite Rudy playing in an era where bigs get less rebounds because:
a) less emphasis on offensive rebounding [in favour of getting back on defense]--->league avg OREB% in Rudy's career has hovered around 23%, whereas it was in the vicinity of 30% during Mutombo's.
b) more 3pters means more longer karams (sometimes going out past the interior rebounders).
Yet Rudy still edges him.

Mutombo's a marginally better FT-shooter, but also gets to the line a little less often (call it a wash).


Overall, these things add up to making Rudy the clearly better offensive player [imo].

[GeorgeMarcus]

Can someone make an argument for either center?

Defensively it's hard for me to separate the 2 (maybe someone else can offer some insight). Offensively Gobert is a better rim runner/lob threat while Mutombo had more of a back to the basket game with his goofy hook shot. I probably favor Gobert ever so slightly because I'm biased toward bigs with more of an off ball presence.

I actually don't think they're all that close offensively [at least not within any remotely recent context].

Yeah, Dikembe had a [slightly] better back to the basket game, but let's face it: dumping it to Mutombo in the post is not exactly efficient offense, particularly when you note his turnover economy (which is wretched). So the fact that Dikembe can maybe do marginally better in a "Kobiyashi Maru" type situation (one that you should almost never be going to in the first place) means relatively little [to me].

Rudy, otoh, is a notably better finisher around the rim. We only have data from '97 and on for Mutombo, but that includes multiple years of his prime, including ALL of his years in Atlanta [which many consider to be his best all-around years], and his single-best season for finishing at the rim is 72.8%.......Rudy's career average is 73.8%. He's finishing 80% this year, which is a sort of all-time level finishing. Yeah, it's small [opportunistic] volume, but......Dikembe was very small volume too (mostly smaller volume than Rudy is scoring this year, in fact).

And it's his threat as a roll-man, along with the quality of screens that he sets [more on that below], that opens up the "3pt scramble" for the Utah offense (the #1 in the league Utah offense). This is relevant in any circumstance where you have decent spacing [which is pretty much the case with either of these teams, but ESPECIALLY with the roster you've assembled for Gobert].

I'll give the definitive nod to Rudy in terms of quality of screens (an underrated skill). Doris Burke just stated in a recent game how Gobert is one of the few players who takes pride in the quality of his screen-setting. Not that this is a huge, Earth-moving skill, but it does definitely add value, and is often overlooked unless we're discussing Wes Unseld**.

**Whereas with nearly any other player the value of screen-setting is almost laughed off, with Unseld it's quickly pointed out as a valuable factor in why he was the 1969 MVP. But Unseld isn't a tremendous historic outlier in this skill [even if he is the best]. If it bears relevance for him, it does for others, too [like Gobert]. I'd even go so far as to suggest Rudy's among the top 10 [perhaps top 5?] best screen-setters ever.

He's also a little better offensive rebounder than Mutombo. Rudy's got a career avg of 5.5 orebs/100 [12.6% OREB%] vs Mutombo's 5.4 orebs/100 [11.9% OREB%].......this despite Rudy playing in an era where bigs get less rebounds because:
a) less emphasis on offensive rebounding [in favour of getting back on defense]--->league avg OREB% in Rudy's career has hovered around 23%, whereas it was in the vicinity of 30% during Mutombo's.
b) more 3pters means more longer karams (sometimes going out past the interior rebounders).
Yet Rudy still edges him.

Mutombo's a marginally better FT-shooter, but also gets to the line a little less often (call it a wash).


Overall, these things add up to making Rudy the clearly better offensive player [imo].

Really great feedback. What are your thoughts on the defensive comparison?

[70sFan]

Can someone make an argument for either center?

Defensively it's hard for me to separate the 2 (maybe someone else can offer some insight). Offensively Gobert is a better rim runner/lob threat while Mutombo had more of a back to the basket game with his goofy hook shot. I probably favor Gobert ever so slightly because I'm biased toward bigs with more of an off ball presence.

I actually don't think they're all that close offensively [at least not within any remotely recent context].

Yeah, Dikembe had a [slightly] better back to the basket game, but let's face it: dumping it to Mutombo in the post is not exactly efficient offense, particularly when you note his turnover economy (which is wretched). So the fact that Dikembe can maybe do marginally better in a "Kobiyashi Maru" type situation (a no-win scenario you should almost never intentionally go to in the first place) means relatively little [to me].

Rudy, otoh, is a notably better finisher around the rim. We only have data from '97 and on for Mutombo, but that includes multiple years of his prime, including ALL of his years in Atlanta [which many consider to be his best all-around years], and his single-best season for finishing at the rim is 72.8%.......Rudy's career average is 73.8%. He's finishing 80% this year, which is a sort of all-time level finishing. Yeah, it's small [opportunistic] volume, but......Dikembe was very small volume too (mostly smaller volume than Rudy is scoring this year, in fact).

And it's his threat as a roll-man, along with the quality of screens that he sets [more on that below], that opens up the "3pt scramble" for the Utah offense (the #1 in the league Utah offense). This is relevant in any circumstance where you have decent spacing [which is pretty much the case with either of these teams, but ESPECIALLY with the roster you've assembled for Gobert].

I'll give the definitive nod to Rudy in terms of quality of screens (an underrated skill). Doris Burke just stated in a recent game how Gobert is one of the few players who takes pride in the quality of his screen-setting. Not that this is a huge, Earth-moving skill, but it does definitely add value, and is often overlooked unless we're discussing Wes Unseld**.

**Whereas with nearly any other player the value of screen-setting is almost laughed off, with Unseld it's quickly pointed out as a valuable factor in why he was the 1969 MVP. But Unseld isn't a tremendous historic outlier in this skill [even if he is the best]. If it bears relevance for him, it does for others, too [like Gobert]. I'd even go so far as to suggest Rudy's among the top 10 [perhaps top 5?] best screen-setters ever.

He's also a little better offensive rebounder than Mutombo. Rudy's got a career avg of 5.5 orebs/100 [12.6% OREB%] vs Mutombo's 5.4 orebs/100 [11.9% OREB%].......this despite Rudy playing in an era where bigs get less rebounds because:
a) less emphasis on offensive rebounding [in favour of getting back on defense]--->league avg OREB% in Rudy's career has hovered around 23%, whereas it was in the vicinity of 30% during Mutombo's.
b) more 3pters means more longer karams (sometimes going out past the interior rebounders).
Yet Rudy still edges him.

Mutombo's a marginally better FT-shooter, but also gets to the line a little less often (call it a wash).


Overall, these things add up to making Rudy the clearly better offensive player [imo].

Nice post, I'd say one thing though - I don't think it's fair to compare raw efficiency at the rim without taking into account era differences.

In 1998-00, teams averaged 62-63% at the rim, which is much lower compared to 68% in the last two years. We have to consider this.

Gobert is such an outlier that I'd give him the edge anyway, but I think it's a bit closer than you may think.

Overall, I also think that Rudy is better offensive player than Dikembe. I do think Mutombo wasn't nearly as bad as some may believe, but Gobert's style is simply more impactful. I love how you highlighted his screen setting ability, very underrated aspect of his game

Now, the real question is who was better defensively. I think I lean towards Mutombo, but it's close and Gobert has been consistently amazing in last 5 years.

[Statlanta]

Team 1

[Dr Positivity]

I like Team 1 more at every position except C.

[LiSTWithLani]

I like Team 1 more at every position except C.

Bingo. I think that Lowry does enough little things to match Mr Big Shot on both ends, but I agree everywhere else.

Lani@LaniStern.com

[Laimbeer]

I've got Pippen as the best player here and probably a bit more capable of the batman role.