Higher peak: Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett vs Dirk Nowitzki

SUPERVILLAIN · Post #1 » by **SUPERVILLAIN** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:44 pm

I know, I know. All of them got an amazingly high peak. Amazing, amazing players.

But who had the highest peak?

No-more-rings · Post #2 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:25 pm

I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

70sFan · Post #3 » by **70sFan** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:32 pm

Another Timmy vote, he was incredible at his best!

Colbinii · Post #4 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:47 pm

I went Timmy >= Garnett [Same Tier] and then Dirk in the next Tier down.

Post #5 » by **trex_8063** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:15 pm

Colbinii wrote:I went Timmy >= Garnett [Same Tier] and then Dirk in the next Tier down.

I feel the same. It's definitely between Timmy and KG for me [haven't voted in poll], kinda hedging toward Tim if for other reason than because I feel he's the superior [GOAT] team (culture) leader. Dirk, while great, is [as you say] in the "next tier" for me (or maybe even a couple of small tiers down). I think Tim proved more playoff resilient than KG at his peak, too. So yeah.....I'm going Duncan [will vote as soon as I post this]; but they're practically adjacent in the same tier (Hakeem in this region for me, too).

I mean, obviously Dirk is the greatest offensive player of the three......but Duncan and KG were utterly dominant two-ways. Or at least they were "utterly dominant" defensive players while also being "really really damn good" offensive players too. Dirk, being great/dominant on offense, but merely OK(ish??) on defense doesn't quite measure up overall [not in terms of a full season at least, factoring in things like minutes].

Duncan was actually fairly dominant offensively at his peak: noting playoff averages [en route to a title] of 24.7 ppg @ +5.8% rTS (and that's relative to rs league avg, not adjusted to playoff competition [which would likely make it look a little better]), 5.3 apg, 3.2 topg, and grabbing 4.0 orpg. That's......pretty well taking care of business on the offensive end (while still anchoring the defense at an all-time level).

Colbinii · Post #6 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:23 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:I went Timmy >= Garnett [Same Tier] and then Dirk in the next Tier down.

I feel the same. It's definitely between Timmy and KG for me [haven't voted in poll], kinda hedging toward Tim if for other reason than because I feel he's the superior [GOAT] team (culture) leader. Dirk, while great, is [as you say] in the "next tier" for me (or maybe even a couple of small tiers down). I think Tim proved more playoff resilient than KG at his peak, too. So yeah.....I'm going Duncan [will vote as soon as I post this]; but they're practically adjacent in the same tier (Hakeem in this region for me, too).

I mean, obviously Dirk is the greatest offensive player of the three......but Duncan and KG were utterly dominant two-ways. Or at least they were "utterly dominant" defensive players while also being "really really damn good" offensive players too. Dirk, being great/dominant on offense, but merely OK(ish??) on defense doesn't quite measure up overall [not in terms of a full season at least, factoring in things like minutes].

Duncan was actually fairly dominant offensively at his peak: noting playoff averages [en route to a title] of 24.7 ppg @ +5.8% rTS (and that's relative to rs league avg, not adjusted to playoff competition [which would likely make it look a little better]), 5.3 apg, 3.2 topg, and grabbing 4.0 orpg. That's......pretty well taking care of business on the offensive end (while still anchoring the defense at an all-time level).

FWIW I had Timmy #1 in a recent peaks project.

I would have KG and Duncan in a tier of about 8 or 9 players and Dirk in the next tier [similar size].

homecourtloss · Post #7 » by **homecourtloss** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:24 pm

Colbinii wrote:I went Timmy >= Garnett [Same Tier] and then Dirk in the next Tier down.

Looked to be about what this board thought in 2019 though Duncan looks to be a clear #1.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1909659&p=79708590#p79708590

SUPERVILLAIN · Post #8 » by **SUPERVILLAIN** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:26 pm

No-more-rings wrote:I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Colbinii · Post #9 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:40 pm

SUPERVILLAIN wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Narratives can be twisted to support any belief and thought you could imagine.

Im Your Father · Post #10 » by **Im Your Father** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:50 pm

Colbinii wrote:
SUPERVILLAIN wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Narratives can be twisted to support any belief and thought you could imagine.

Agreed. Could just as easily say "Duncan 'single-handedly' beat prime Shaq and Kobe".

Mr B · Post #11 » by **Mr B** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:19 pm

Duncan is clearly on a higher tier than the other two. I would put Dirk next. KG may have been better defensively but when these two played head to head Dirk smoked KG every single time. So I have Dirk second in this list. Also Dirk carried his team to a Finals win whereas KG had to leave and team up with other stars to get a ring.

With that said I would gladly build my team around anyone of these guys.

PhilBlackson · Post #12 » by **PhilBlackson** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:55 pm

There's a reason why Tim is the greatest PF of all time - he has the highest peak (period).

No-more-rings · Post #13 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:18 pm

SUPERVILLAIN wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Yeah i remember that, Dirk was putting up buckets even with Lebron, Bosh and Wade all guarding him at once.

matt6715 · Post #14 » by **matt6715** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:26 pm

Total Career/Accomplishments:

Duncan
Dirk
KG

Peak:
Duncan
KG
Dirk

No-more-rings · Post #15 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:31 pm

Mr B wrote:Duncan is clearly on a higher tier than the other two. I would put Dirk next. KG may have been better defensively but when these two played head to head Dirk smoked KG every single time. So I have Dirk second in this list. Also Dirk carried his team to a Finals win whereas KG had to leave and team up with other stars to get a ring.

With that said I would gladly build my team around anyone of these guys.

But isn't there something to be said about past prime KG being arguably the best player on a team that was minutes from a title(2010)? I mean Pierce was all star caliber, Allen was a good player don't know if he was all star caliber by that point, Rondo was playoff Rondo and they had solid depth but i just don't subscribe to this narrative that KG at his peak necessarily needed a ton of stars or whatever to win. Pierce and Rondo were maybe top 20 players in the league that year, and Allen like top 50 I guess. It's not like he was playing with Steph Curry and Draymond Green lol.

G35 · Post #16 » by **G35** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:57 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
Mr B wrote:Duncan is clearly on a higher tier than the other two. I would put Dirk next. KG may have been better defensively but when these two played head to head Dirk smoked KG every single time. So I have Dirk second in this list. Also Dirk carried his team to a Finals win whereas KG had to leave and team up with other stars to get a ring.

With that said I would gladly build my team around anyone of these guys.

But isn't there something to be said about past prime KG being arguably the best player on a team that was minutes from a title(2010)? I mean Pierce was all star caliber, Allen was a good player don't know if he was all star caliber by that point, Rondo was playoff Rondo and they had solid depth but i just don't subscribe to this narrative that KG at his peak necessarily needed a ton of stars or whatever to win. Pierce and Rondo were maybe top 20 players in the league that year, and Allen like top 50 I guess. It's not like he was playing with Steph Curry and Draymond Green lol.

That is a glass half full look at KG's career.

You could also say that KG was one game from not winning any titles.

The 2008 Celtics are the only team in history to go to two G7's and two G6's, they had to play the most games to win a title. There is an argument that if Bynum was not hurt, the Celtics do not win any titles with that group.....

dygaction · Post #17 » by **dygaction** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:38 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
Mr B wrote:Duncan is clearly on a higher tier than the other two. I would put Dirk next. KG may have been better defensively but when these two played head to head Dirk smoked KG every single time. So I have Dirk second in this list. Also Dirk carried his team to a Finals win whereas KG had to leave and team up with other stars to get a ring.

With that said I would gladly build my team around anyone of these guys.

But isn't there something to be said about past prime KG being arguably the best player on a team that was minutes from a title(2010)? I mean Pierce was all star caliber, Allen was a good player don't know if he was all star caliber by that point, Rondo was playoff Rondo and they had solid depth but i just don't subscribe to this narrative that KG at his peak necessarily needed a ton of stars or whatever to win. Pierce and Rondo were maybe top 20 players in the league that year, and Allen like top 50 I guess. It's not like he was playing with Steph Curry and Draymond Green lol.

Wait... Can you ask for more if you have two top 20 players as teammates? There are 30 teams in the league, so Allen, a top 50 guy according to you, should be an average #2 in an nba team but was #4 best player in Celtics team.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #18 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:46 pm

How unpopular is Peak Dirk>Peak KG here? Because I maybe just might be willing to go there...

Mr B · Post #19 » by **Mr B** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:53 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:How unpopular is Peak Dirk>Peak KG here? Because I maybe just might be willing to go there...

Head to head Dirk was better. Dirk took two teams to the Finals (‘06, ’11) with similar talent to KG’s Timberwolves teams. And they faced the same competition.

KG is an all time great player and I would love to build a team around him, but Dirk was better.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #20 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:07 am

SUPERVILLAIN wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

He was at 26ppg on 54% ts in those finals. Good but not 'single-handedly beat the Heat' in those finals good. Terry is the one who closed out the series in game 6 too. Dirk was better in the earlier rounds than in the finals. I also say this as someone who has Dirk top 15 all time so no hate.

Who had the highest peak?