Current Luka vs Prime Iverson

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 11:43 am

Who's the better player?

Jaivl · Post #2 » by **Jaivl** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 11:49 am

Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Post #3 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 1:24 pm

Jaivl wrote:Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Then what makes Doncic the better player? (I'm waiting for the argument based on Luka's defensive skills here :wink:

)

durantbird · Post #4 » by **durantbird** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 1:44 pm

Jaivl wrote:Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Which efficiency measure did you use?

Colbinii · Post #5 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 2:30 pm

Luka, especially the current version [last 6-8 weeks].

I had 2021 Luka up there with Peak Dirk, whom is comfortable ahead of AI.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #6 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 3:24 pm

I really don't see how this is a question, just very VERY different tiers

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 6:18 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Then what makes Doncic the better player? (I'm waiting for the argument based on Luka's defensive skills here )

Vastly better playmaker. and his defensive skills of course

Post #8 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Mar 4, 2022 9:54 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Then what makes Doncic the better player? (I'm waiting for the argument based on Luka's defensive skills here )

You laugh, but Luka has been more than solid defensively this year. He's big which means he doesn't end up defending quick guards except on switches ever, and his strength really helps against big wings. For instance he's been the Mavs most effective Lebron defender since he's been in town.

Plus he has great hands/instincts and his rebounding prowess helps end possessions.

I think its fine to say Luka has more positive defensive impact than AI. And of course he creates more wide open shots for teammates than AI managed. Scoring is but a part of what Luka brings.

falcolombardi · Post #9 » by **falcolombardi** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 1:05 am

Luka, although i think iverson was fairly impactful at his best as a creator

iggymcfrack · Post #10 » by **iggymcfrack** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 1:33 am

Both are/were elite scorers and weak defenders, but when it comes to passing/playmaking, they’re not even in the same ZIP code. Luka’s on another level.

HeartBreakKid · Post #11 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 4:43 am

I think Luka's passing puts him over Iverson but it's not a bad comparison - as scorers they're pretty comparable with Iverson coming out ahead probably.

70sFan · Post #12 » by **70sFan** » Sat Mar 5, 2022 8:40 am

That's funny, you can argue that Doncic is LESS efficient offensive player when we take turnovers into account.

I still would take Doncic due to his massive playmaking advantage and more size on defense.

feyki · Post #13 » by **feyki** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 10:25 am

What's Current Luka, if Doncic is able to do what he did back in the 2021, then he's GOAT offensive player. But his efficiency still only some higher than Peak Westbrook, but insane load 38,5 and 11 points and assists a game is an outlier, except of 25 point loss game in the six games of the series.

If he's 36/37 and 10/11 points and assists a game player with +5 to +10 offensive efficiency, he's offensive GOAT.

Johnny Firpo · Post #14 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 5:18 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I think Luka's passing puts him over Iverson but it's not a bad comparison - as scorers they're pretty comparable with Iverson coming out ahead probably.

Isn't Luka much more efficient even compared to league average? I think he is. Iverson was regularly below or around league average TS%, while Luka is comfortably above.

70sFan · Post #15 » by **70sFan** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 5:36 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think Luka's passing puts him over Iverson but it's not a bad comparison - as scorers they're pretty comparable with Iverson coming out ahead probably.

Isn't Luka much more efficient even compared to league average? I think he is. Iverson was regularly below or around league average TS%, while Luka is comfortably above.

Luka is below average in terms of scoring efficiency this season. He averages -0.6 rTS% up to this point. Iverson had better relative efficiency rating in 5 prime seasons during 1999-08 period:

2001: +0.0 rTS%
2005: +0.3 rTS%
2006: +0.7 rTS%
2007: -0.1 rTS%
2008: +0.0 rTS%

He averaged more points per possession in two of these seasons as well.

Johnny Firpo · Post #16 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 7:58 pm

70sFan wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think Luka's passing puts him over Iverson but it's not a bad comparison - as scorers they're pretty comparable with Iverson coming out ahead probably.

Isn't Luka much more efficient even compared to league average? I think he is. Iverson was regularly below or around league average TS%, while Luka is comfortably above.

Luka is below average in terms of scoring efficiency this season. He averages -0.6 rTS% up to this point. Iverson had better relative efficiency rating in 5 prime seasons during 1999-08 period:

2001: +0.0 rTS%
2005: +0.3 rTS%
2006: +0.7 rTS%
2007: -0.1 rTS%
2008: +0.0 rTS%

He averaged more points per possession in two of these seasons as well.

I wasn't talking about this season though, which is still incomplete.

70sFan · Post #17 » by **70sFan** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 7:59 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
Isn't Luka much more efficient even compared to league average? I think he is. Iverson was regularly below or around league average TS%, while Luka is comfortably above.

Luka is below average in terms of scoring efficiency this season. He averages -0.6 rTS% up to this point. Iverson had better relative efficiency rating in 5 prime seasons during 1999-08 period:

2001: +0.0 rTS%
2005: +0.3 rTS%
2006: +0.7 rTS%
2007: -0.1 rTS%
2008: +0.0 rTS%

He averaged more points per possession in two of these seasons as well.

I wasn't talking about this season though, which is still incomplete.

This thread is about current Luka though.

Johnny Firpo · Post #18 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 7:59 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Current Luka Doncic.

And now for a weird fact - 2001 Iverson is, at the moment, a more efficient scorer than 2022 Doncic (!)

Then what makes Doncic the better player? (I'm waiting for the argument based on Luka's defensive skills here )

His passing, and yes, his defense. Luka is a better defender this year - much better in fact - than AI ever was.

Johnny Firpo · Post #19 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 8:01 pm

70sFan wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
70sFan wrote:Luka is below average in terms of scoring efficiency this season. He averages -0.6 rTS% up to this point. Iverson had better relative efficiency rating in 5 prime seasons during 1999-08 period:

2001: +0.0 rTS%
2005: +0.3 rTS%
2006: +0.7 rTS%
2007: -0.1 rTS%
2008: +0.0 rTS%

He averaged more points per possession in two of these seasons as well.

I wasn't talking about this season though, which is still incomplete.

This thread is about current Luka though.

If the thread is about current Luka, wouldn't it make more sense to actually compare his last, say, two months then? Isn't his in-shape form more indicative of who he is "currently", than the form he was in when he was overweight?

70sFan · Post #20 » by **70sFan** » Sun Mar 6, 2022 8:08 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
I wasn't talking about this season though, which is still incomplete.

This thread is about current Luka though.

If the thread is about current Luka, wouldn't it make more sense to actually compare his last, say, two months then? Isn't his in-shape form more indicative of who he is "currently", than the form he was in when he was overweight?

His rTS% from last two months is +0.5, which is still in line with Iverson best scoring seasons.

Better player