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Wilt Chamberlain entering the nba as a rookie in 2008 on the Denver Nuggets at Center, removing Camby, how does that team perform until the end of Chamberlain's career, let's say this current season, giving him 15 season career.

That Denver team was decent with Iverson and Carmelo that season but not built that well with little defense.

Do they win any championships and how many?

Does he get any accolades?

How do they fair against the superteams? In the 10s?

I'd love to see George Karl deal with a young Wilt.

do they still draft and develop jokic alongside him?

falcolombardi wrote:do they still draft and develop jokic alongside him?

Have to assume no because they win much more each season. Assume similar free agents but likely Iverson still gets traded for Billups and Carmelo probably stays to play with Chamberlain.

migya wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:do they still draft and develop jokic alongside him?

Have to assume no because they win much more each season. Assume similar free agents but likely Iverson still gets traded for Billups and Carmelo probably stays to play with Chamberlain.

They played Thurmond next to wilt, why not jokic.

Wilt Jokic twin towers are the height of this hypothetical, assuming Wilt can’t move in free agency.

Billups/Melo/Wilt wins a few. Jokic/Wilt wins a few.

Come on, don't do this to Pau

They win in 09 and 10, 08 maybe a finals loss. The Iguodala year they have a chance but Gallinari ACL tear costs them. Don't see him winning with Jokic supporting cast.

Wilt continues to be a dominant defender and rebounder but in the modern era develops a 3 point game similar to Karl Anthony Towns. If you don't believe me, just ask him. (Hands over the ouija board.)

migya wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:do they still draft and develop jokic alongside him?

Have to assume no because they win much more each season. Assume similar free agents but likely Iverson still gets traded for Billups and Carmelo probably stays to play with Chamberlain.

Jokic was picked at 41sth, I'm sure they would have picked him late in the first round if they needed to. But actually they could have picked him with the 60th pick, as nobody was interested in him. He didn't even bother to cross the ocean or stay awake, he was asleep in Europe while being drafted.

As for Wilt, I'm not sure Wilt would have fit in this era where the big man's role was fading. Not as a comparison, but Howard similarly couldn't really deal with it at the time clashing regularly with Kobe in his short stint with the Lakers. I can imagine Wilt's character having the same problems in this era.

Mazter wrote:As for Wilt, I'm not sure Wilt would have fit in this era where the big man's role was fading. Not as a comparison, but Howard similarly couldn't really deal with it at the time clashing regularly with Kobe in his short stint with the Lakers. I can imagine Wilt's character having the same problems in this era.

I think last few years proved that the whole idea of centers fading away was simply wrong. During Dwight prime, there were very few top tier centers and that was the reason why it looked like that - lack of talent. It didn't stop Dwight from being one of the best players in the league for 4 straight years and I'd say that Wilt was much better basketball player than Howard.

As to characters, I don't think it would be any different than it was back then. Sometimes he struggled with his ego, but he was willing to listen competent coaches. We've seen him taking step back next to talented Philly teams and another step back to Jerry West.

Last but not the least, Wilt+Jokic combo would be such an amazing thing to watch. The fit might not be perfect, but I don't care - they would destroy the league.

70sFan wrote:

Mazter wrote:As for Wilt, I'm not sure Wilt would have fit in this era where the big man's role was fading. Not as a comparison, but Howard similarly couldn't really deal with it at the time clashing regularly with Kobe in his short stint with the Lakers. I can imagine Wilt's character having the same problems in this era.

I think last few years proved that the whole idea of centers fading away was simply wrong. During Dwight prime, there were very few top tier centers and that was the reason why it looked like that - lack of talent. It didn't stop Dwight from being one of the best players in the league for 4 straight years and I'd say that Wilt was much better basketball player than Howard.

As to characters, I don't think it would be any different than it was back then. Sometimes he struggled with his ego, but he was willing to listen competent coaches. We've seen him taking step back next to talented Philly teams and another step back to Jerry West.

Last but not the least, Wilt+Jokic combo would be such an amazing thing to watch. The fit might not be perfect, but I don't care - they would destroy the league.

it may have been a combination of a top talent nadir
-and- the game changing (even before the 3 point explosión of the mid 2010's) in such a way that traditional bigs (mid range shooting, post isolation for non star bigs, bulky body types for post up defense and more contested rebounding) were less useful in comparision to before

this doesnt mean that someone like Greg Monroe would have been a star in the 90's, but maybe he would have had a more succesful career

falcolombardi wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Mazter wrote:As for Wilt, I'm not sure Wilt would have fit in this era where the big man's role was fading. Not as a comparison, but Howard similarly couldn't really deal with it at the time clashing regularly with Kobe in his short stint with the Lakers. I can imagine Wilt's character having the same problems in this era.

I think last few years proved that the whole idea of centers fading away was simply wrong. During Dwight prime, there were very few top tier centers and that was the reason why it looked like that - lack of talent. It didn't stop Dwight from being one of the best players in the league for 4 straight years and I'd say that Wilt was much better basketball player than Howard.

As to characters, I don't think it would be any different than it was back then. Sometimes he struggled with his ego, but he was willing to listen competent coaches. We've seen him taking step back next to talented Philly teams and another step back to Jerry West.

Last but not the least, Wilt+Jokic combo would be such an amazing thing to watch. The fit might not be perfect, but I don't care - they would destroy the league.

it may have been a combination of a top talent nadir
-and- the game changing (even before the 3 point explosión of the mid 2010's) in such a way that traditional bigs (mid range shooting, post isolation for non star bigs, bulky body types for post up defense and more contested rebounding) were less useful in comparision to before

this doesnt mean that someone like Greg Monroe would have been a star in the 90's, but maybe he would have had a more succesful career

The archetype you described didn't exist back in Wilt's time. Back then coaches wanted three thing from bigs:

- rebound,
- protect the paint,
- pass out of the post.

When you look at top 1960s and 1970s centers, you won't find any high volume low post scorers outside of Wilt and Kareem. The real archetype was someone like Wes Unseld or Dave Cowens - good passers who set picks, could shoot from midrange and protect the paint. Elite rebounders as well, this part of game was much more important back then. You have different types of players within that archetype: Thurmond as better defender, more willing to shoot but worse passer; Zelmo Beaty who wasn't the kind of passer or rebounder they were, but was good shooting bigman; Johnny Red Kerr was another one that fits this description. Then of course you have Russell, who is the ultimate version of this archetype. There were some like Willis Reed or Bob McAdoo who didn't fit either style of course.

I can only think of 4 volume low post scorers from that era that fits 1990s "traditional big" description. Outside of Wilt and Kareem, we also had Bob Lanier (tough, physical player with excellent scoring repertoire) and Elvin Hayes (undersized at center, but athletic and willing shooter). Walt Bellamy was like poor version of David Robinson, as he didn't score nearly as much in the post but you can include him I guess. This wasn't the type of player required back then though, when you look at most centers from that period they were taught to play in the high post and find cutters.

70sFan wrote:I think last few years proved that the whole idea of centers fading away was simply wrong.

THe center role was not fading because of lack of talent but because of change in type of offense. It has become more and more a drive, kick and pull up game. Centers had to change their game to keep up. Top centers today can shoot, drive and pass. Wilt would still not be able to shoot, and his mediocre shot would limit his ability to drive.

70sFan wrote:As to characters, I don't think it would be any different than it was back then. Sometimes he struggled with his ego, but he was willing to listen competent coaches. We've seen him taking step back next to talented Philly teams and another step back to Jerry West.

His willingnes was more due to cricumstances. He broke the scoring record the previous season. And he was slapped for the 5th consecutive time by Russell's defence in the play offs despite outscoring him. I don't think Hannum had a hard time convincing him that that time has come.It would be different today. All depend of how much he would dominate college and how big the hype would be.

70sFan wrote:Last but not the least, Wilt+Jokic combo would be such an amazing thing to watch. The fit might not be perfect, but I don't care - they would destroy the league.

I would say this combo is perfect. Jokic's midrange efficiency and passing would compliment Wilt in the paint. Wilt's rim protection would compliment Jokic's defense. I'm sure they would be dominating this decade, given that Wilt came in after 1 year of college and would 32-34 years old.

Mazter wrote:THe center role was not fading because of lack of talent but because of change in type of offense. It has become more and more a drive, kick and pull up game. Centers had to change their game to keep up. Top centers today can shoot, drive and pass. Wilt would still not be able to shoot, and his mediocre shot would limit his ability to drive.

Some of that is true, but as you mentioned great centers adjusted and keep being great. 2008-16 era is one of the worst ever for bigman talent, that's why we didn't have anyone notable from that era other than Howard.

By the way, I wouldn't say that all top centers can shoot, drive and pass. Rudy Gobert is inarguably 3rd best center in the league right now and he can't do any of these things at elite level. Allen is certainly among the best centers in the league and he's worse version of Gobert on offense. Bam Adebayo isn't good shooter even for 1990s standards. Ayton can't pass and his shooting ability is very limited.

I know, I know - Embiid and Jokic are amazingly skilled, but not all top tier centers are like that today. I just mentioned 6 of the best centers in the league and the only one that is within that tier is KAT, who fits your description. I'm pretty sure Wilt would be capable of doing more on offense than Gobert or Bam.

His willingnes was more due to cricumstances. He broke the scoring record the previous season. And he was slapped for the 5th consecutive time by Russell's defence in the play offs despite outscoring him. I don't think Hannum had a hard time convincing him that that time has come.It would be different today. All depend of how much he would dominate college and how big the hype would be.

He already changed his game in 1963/64 season, reducing his volume and focusing more on non-scoring aspects of the game. He lost only two times to Russell in the playoffs before 1964.

I would say this combo is perfect. Jokic's midrange efficiency and passing would compliment Wilt in the paint. Wilt's rim protection would compliment Jokic's defense. I'm sure they would be dominating this decade, given that Wilt came in after 1 year of college and would 32-34 years old.

Yeah, they would compliment each other so well. Defensive fit is quite weird, but I think they could make it work. Both used to play next to other centers (Plumlee and Nate/Luke) and they are smart enough to figure it out.