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One of the top defenses in the league. Do you think someone of the team should be selected All Defense this year? DFS? Kleber?

One of DFS or Bullock might have a chance for 2nd team, don't think Maxi gets enough name recognition yet.

DFS is still a stud. I'd vote yes, 2nd team on first glance.

Forward slots:

Mikal/DFS
Giannis/Tatum

All-defense is so tough. We don't have consistent metrics that everyone agrees on to the extent we have for offense. Brand name recognition and capturing some narrative attention for your defense is what gets you on the team, moreso than necessarily being one of the most impactful defenders. The only reason I'm bringing up these banal points is because the ones who lose out are the out of the spotlight role players who MIGHT sneakily be more in the conversation for top 10 defender than most people think they are.

Maxi Kleber is pretty rare in that he's a super stout matchup defender against 3 positions, and also provides strong enough rim protection to be a primary rim protector in any lineup. I can't think of too many defenders that bring that combination. Nothing amuses me more than a star that doesn't take Maxi seriously and then gets stonewalled and blocked on multiple possessions. RAPTOR has him as the best Maverick (+3.0) on this roster (Josh Green also scores high). EPM likes Kleber (+1.8), while Green and DFS (+1.3) also score high. LEBRON has Maxi (+1.5), DFS (+0.27), and Green (+0.62) and good but not elite defender.

DFS quietly shoulders a huge perimeter defense load. He'll be tasked with chasing a quick off-ball point guard, or tasked with guarding an elite big wing on any given night. He's as good as anyone in the forward slots imo.

I think the Mavs being able to build a strong defense this year is proof of the work Kleber and DFS having been doing for years on rosters that try to slant towards offense (often pairing Luka with low-defense gunners).

But forward is tough...
big recognizable names: Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Draymond, Lebron(?), Tatum,
big defensive reputation guys: Thybulle, PJ Tucker, Mobley, Wiggins might get hype this year,
Tons of other elite defenders: Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby, JJJ, Pascal Siakam, Grant Williams, Aaron Gordon, Lu Dort, Scottie Barnes, Batum, Covington, Jaylen Brown, Time Lord or Horford should be eligible at forward, Royce O'Neale, Darius Bazley, De'Andre Hunter.

it's a mountain to climb to get one of those 4 spots. and most of the voters mostly grab from this first 2 categories (stars and defensive reputation guys) and only know much about a handful of the 3rd category.

jamaalstar21 wrote:All-defense is so tough. We don't have consistent metrics that everyone agrees on to the extent we have for offense. Brand name recognition and capturing some narrative attention for your defense is what gets you on the team, moreso than necessarily being one of the most impactful defenders. The only reason I'm bringing up these banal points is because the ones who lose out are the out of the spotlight role players who MIGHT sneakily be more in the conversation for top 10 defender than most people think they are.

Maxi Kleber is pretty rare in that he's a super stout matchup defender against 3 positions, and also provides strong enough rim protection to be a primary rim protector in any lineup. I can't think of too many defenders that bring that combination. Nothing amuses me more than a star that doesn't take Maxi seriously and then gets stonewalled and blocked on multiple possessions. RAPTOR has him as the best Maverick (+3.0) on this roster (Josh Green also scores high). EPM likes Kleber (+1.8), while Green and DFS (+1.3) also score high. LEBRON has Maxi (+1.5), DFS (+0.27), and Green (+0.62) and good but not elite defender.

DFS quietly shoulders a huge perimeter defense load. He'll be tasked with chasing a quick off-ball point guard, or tasked with guarding an elite big wing on any given night. He's as good as anyone in the forward slots imo.

I think the Mavs being able to build a strong defense this year is proof of the work Kleber and DFS having been doing for years on rosters that try to slant towards offense (often pairing Luka with low-defense gunners).

But forward is tough...
big recognizable names: Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Draymond, Lebron(?), Tatum,
big defensive reputation guys: Thybulle, PJ Tucker, Mobley, Wiggins might get hype this year,
Tons of other elite defenders: Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby, JJJ, Pascal Siakam, Grant Williams, Aaron Gordon, Lu Dort, Scottie Barnes, Batum, Covington, Jaylen Brown, Time Lord or Horford should be eligible at forward, Royce O'Neale, Darius Bazley, De'Andre Hunter.

it's a mountain to climb to get one of those 4 spots. and most of the voters mostly grab from this first 2 categories (stars and defensive reputation guys) and only know much about a handful of the 3rd category.

But the voters are paid experts at player analysis.

Good post, though I don't agree with all the guys you've labelled "elite". I mean, that's a lot of names.......if all of them are "elite", "elite" sort of loses its semantic meaning, no?
Few of them are, in fact, only a little better than average defensively, imo.

trex_8063 wrote:

jamaalstar21 wrote:All-defense is so tough. We don't have consistent metrics that everyone agrees on to the extent we have for offense. Brand name recognition and capturing some narrative attention for your defense is what gets you on the team, moreso than necessarily being one of the most impactful defenders. The only reason I'm bringing up these banal points is because the ones who lose out are the out of the spotlight role players who MIGHT sneakily be more in the conversation for top 10 defender than most people think they are.

Maxi Kleber is pretty rare in that he's a super stout matchup defender against 3 positions, and also provides strong enough rim protection to be a primary rim protector in any lineup. I can't think of too many defenders that bring that combination. Nothing amuses me more than a star that doesn't take Maxi seriously and then gets stonewalled and blocked on multiple possessions. RAPTOR has him as the best Maverick (+3.0) on this roster (Josh Green also scores high). EPM likes Kleber (+1.8), while Green and DFS (+1.3) also score high. LEBRON has Maxi (+1.5), DFS (+0.27), and Green (+0.62) and good but not elite defender.

DFS quietly shoulders a huge perimeter defense load. He'll be tasked with chasing a quick off-ball point guard, or tasked with guarding an elite big wing on any given night. He's as good as anyone in the forward slots imo.

I think the Mavs being able to build a strong defense this year is proof of the work Kleber and DFS having been doing for years on rosters that try to slant towards offense (often pairing Luka with low-defense gunners).

But forward is tough...
big recognizable names: Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Draymond, Lebron(?), Tatum,
big defensive reputation guys: Thybulle, PJ Tucker, Mobley, Wiggins might get hype this year,
Tons of other elite defenders: Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby, JJJ, Pascal Siakam, Grant Williams, Aaron Gordon, Lu Dort, Scottie Barnes, Batum, Covington, Jaylen Brown, Time Lord or Horford should be eligible at forward, Royce O'Neale, Darius Bazley, De'Andre Hunter.

it's a mountain to climb to get one of those 4 spots. and most of the voters mostly grab from this first 2 categories (stars and defensive reputation guys) and only know much about a handful of the 3rd category.

But the voters are paid experts at player analysis.

Good post, though I don't agree with all the guys you've labelled "elite". I mean, that's a lot of names.......if all of them are "elite", "elite" sort of loses its semantic meaning, no?
Few of them are, in fact, only a little better than average defensively, imo.

I pray at the altar of their expertise. As do we all.

Sure I used the E word a little casually, listing 16 guys in that 3rd category and 25 guys in total (27 if we include DFS and Maxi). I wanted to list as many guys I could think of that were legitimately in the pool of all-defense candidates at the forward position. But semantics aside, I'm curious who you think definitely doesn't qualify? There's some guys who didn't play enough games this year to deserve serious recognition. I also don't think Wiggins is very good. I have a hard time rating Royce O'Neale since he's very overtasked in Utah. Daris Bazley is probably a year away from being a big impact guy, and Lebron is a year past. Who jumps out at you as "only a little better than average"?

Kleber or Finney Smith only above average defensive players in the Mavs. Don't think the two could crack the team.