Which franchises have a no question GOAT

[sp6r=underrated]

Which teams do you think have a GOAT?

Consider contributions to team, how they are regarded by fans, but only career with that team.

Feel free to give your opinion on any team but especially interested on your favorite team.

Confirmed Franchise GOAT
Celtics: Russell. Bird close but confirmed second.

Bulls: Jordan no one close

Cavs: Lebron no one close.

Mavs: Dirk no one close

Warriors: Curry with Wilt very close.

Rockets: Hakeem no one close. This is a good example of how a player's tenure end with a club matters. If the Rockets had won that G7 and Harden left more amicably he'd be like Bird as a close but confirmed second. Instead most of his former fans hate him.

Pacers: Miller no one close.

Heat: Wade. Heat have a clear top 3 order probably the best defined of any franchise. Wade number one. Lebron number two. Mourning number three. Once you get past the top 3, there are a lot of good players (Jones, Hardaway, Bosh). Very deep bench from such a young team.

Wolves: Garnett, no one close.

Magic: Howard, several players with argument for number 2. But open Magic should not have a GOAT. Howard's departure was very rough. Shaq and Penny peaked higher IMO. But Shaq left quickly and Penny was wrecked by injuries. Magic accomplished little with TMac. So this is a team with a lot of high level players but very little to show for it.

Sixers: Dr. J, with a couple of players having good argument for #2.

Kings: Oscar no one close. This is a hard one because I'm not sure any Kings fans feel a connection with the Big O. I think you could make an argument that his days occurred on a defunct franchise.

Spurs: Duncan with Robinson close second.

Jazz: Malone but Stockton very close second.


Multiple GOAT Candidates
Hawks: 2 candidates Petit and Nique. Obviously vast majority of fans don't remember Petit and he played in St. Louis. Nique was a flashier player but it isn't clear to me he's the GOAT.

Nets: Dr. J is ahead IMO but his days occurred in the ABA. Kidd had a very productive but short career with Jersey.
Hornets: No GOAT and I don't even think the franchise has a candidate. Charlotte has had very low level elite play for a franchise that is over 30 years old.

Nuggets: It is very possible the Nuggets will move upto confirmed franchise GOAT if Jokic has a crazy post-season. He's already by far the highest peak Nuggets but for career value I'm not sure he's passed English. I could be persuaded otherwise.

Pistons: No GOAT. Isiah is in the lead but it isn't as clear cut.

Clippers: No GOAT. Paul probably best candidate.

Lakers: I see three candidates. Magic, Kobe and West. Magic/Kobe hit me as probably top 2 with West having a strong contingent of fans who appreciate his career/mgmt. contributions to club. Kareem's personality prevents him from generating the affection the others did. Universally respected, yes but I don't think many fans regard him as their GOAT.

Griz: I see multiple candidates. Pau isn't one of em due to the nature of his departure.

Bucks: Giannis or Kareem. Giannis can get the title of clear GOAT very shortly.

Pelicans: Paul or Davis.

Knicks: Ewing or Frazier. Frazier has the championship glory. Ewing was the face of the franchise for a very long run. And while fans were ambivilant at times they eventually embraced him. The implosion of the team shortly after he left makes his tenure better in retrospect.

Sonics/Thunder: Durant or Payton. Open to being persuaded that they have a GOAT.

Suns: this is a very hard franchise to rank. They have an excellent RS Win %, tons of fun contending championship cores. I think Nash is the GOAT but not sure at all this is a consensus opinion.

Blazers: No GOAT. Quite a few candidates with different cases.

Raptors: No GOAT. But I suspect Lowry might have a case but I'm not convinced.

Wizards: not sure

[falcolombardi]

westbrook is probably Oklahoma goat if not its best player

Gary payton is seattle goat imo

i separate those the franchises

[Dr Positivity]

Easiest ones:

Bulls
Cavaliers
Mavericks
Rockets
Timberwolves
Royals/Kings
Atlanta/St Louis

I'm putting Pettit on the list cause I feel he had a much better career than Dominique compared to his time. They played 17 years apart and I feel the time gap between 60s and 80s is not as meaningful as people think it is.

Mel Daniels has a case for Indiana because at least they had championships with him although Miller is way ahead in cumulative stats

I actually think 4 years of Lebron is almost as valuable as Wade's entire career with them, I'd give the edge to Wade but it's not a massive gap

Utah, San Antonio and Phoenix are all somewhat easy but also not a huge gap

I have Durant clearly over Westbrook for Thunder but bringing in the Sonics make it more complicated

Walton isn't in consideration for Blazers for me, however Lillard has now put his name up enough against Drexler

[sp6r=underrated]

I actually think 4 years of Lebron is almost as valuable as Wade's entire career with them, I'd give the edge to Wade but it's not a massive gap

With Wade, there is sentimentality factor. I think that matters. Wade was the face of the franchise and recruited Lebron to Miami. He led em to a title before Lebron and played several years there after em.

Lebron's peak was higher. No question. It is one of the highest peaks of all-time. On paper it is closer but the subjective factors make it not close at all.

[sp6r=underrated]

westbrook is probably Oklahoma goat if not its best player

Gary payton is seattle goat imo

i separate those the franchises

Westbrook is a good pick. I almost retract Durant being listed. He really did become the face of that franchise in a strong way.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Warriors: Curry with Wilt very close.

I personally would put Rick Barry above Wilt as a Warrior.

In the 67 Finals his record scoring average stood for the next 26 years. Yes he didn't shoot the greatest but to be fair he and the Warriors were trying to take down one of the greatest title teams in NBA history who were much more talented overall as a roster. They actually put up more of a fight than the more talented and celebrated Celtics did that year.

He led the Warriors to their 1st ever title in 75. A very underrated individual run to the title imho.

[falcolombardi]

westbrook is probably Oklahoma goat if not its best player

Gary payton is seattle goat imo

i separate those the franchises

Westbrook is a good pick. I almost retract Durant being listed. He really did become the face of that franchise in a strong way.

yep, is like lebron vs wade

one player is better but longevity (specially for wade vs lebron) and love by the fans (specially for westbrook vs durant) make the worse player the clear pick

also helps that wade is an all time great in his own and. -hot take- okc westbrook best years were not that far below durant

[sp6r=underrated]

westbrook is probably Oklahoma goat if not its best player

Gary payton is seattle goat imo

i separate those the franchises

Westbrook is a good pick. I almost retract Durant being listed. He really did become the face of that franchise in a strong way.

yep, is like lebron vs wade

one player is better but longevity (specially for wade vs lebron) and love by the fans (specially for westbrook vs durant) make the worse player the clear pick

also helps that wade is an all time great in his own and. -hot take- okc westbrook best years were not that far below durant

I'm in agreement with everything and to add on Wade and Lebron longevity matters. 15 Seasons is a long time.

[sp6r=underrated]

Warriors: Curry with Wilt very close.

I personally would put Rick Barry above Wilt as a Warrior.

In the 67 Finals his record scoring average stood for the next 26 years. Yes he didn't shoot the greatest but to be fair he and the Warriors were trying to take down one of the greatest title teams in NBA history who were much more talented overall as a roster. They actually put up more of a fight than the more talented and celebrated Celtics did that year.

He led the Warriors to their 1st ever title in 75. A very underrated individual run to the title imho.

Another good call.

[ronnymac2]

NYK: Patrick Ewing for the longevity. He was our clear-cut best player while the team went against a dynasty for a decade. Career stats, warrior mentality, Dream Team representative, and New York has sucked since trading him. I think he makes the most sense here. The 1970s title teams mean a lot; however, though Reed and Frazier stand out, that squad is an oft-cited example of what an unselfish ensemble can accomplish.

Orlando: Shaq for sure. Should have been T-Mac or Penny. I'm not sure Dwight Howard is a top-10 Magic player all-time. He single-handedly cost them a title with WOAT-level offense in the finals, then nonsensically grew his ego further out of that debacle and imploded a promising team, paving the way for a decade of negative impact on like 12 franchises before LeBron carried him to redemption. The highlight of his Orlando tenure was the dark comedy that was Dwight, Stan, and the Pepsi can.

Toronto: How could this not be Vince Carter? They made a Netflix doc for him.

Miami: Wade for sure. The guy attracted Shaq and literally recruited the modern-era GOAT to join the team. Top-15 peak play as well.

Hawks: Pettit. He delivered a title in the Russell era. Pettit is to Hawks fans what Eli Manning is to NY Giants fans.

Grizzlies: Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol were great but had each other. Bryant Reeves had little to work with.

[homecourtloss]

Warriors: Curry with Wilt very close.

I personally would put Rick Barry above Wilt as a Warrior.

In the 67 Finals his record scoring average stood for the next 26 years. Yes he didn't shoot the greatest but to be fair he and the Warriors were trying to take down one of the greatest title teams in NBA history who were much more talented overall as a roster. They actually put up more of a fight than the more talented and celebrated Celtics did that year.

He led the Warriors to their 1st ever title in 75. A very underrated individual run to the title imho.

Though not GOAT but rather peak, still very interesting and worth a read if you haven’t already done so.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2094641&start=60

[sp6r=underrated]

Orlando: Shaq for sure. Should have been T-Mac or Penny. I'm not sure Dwight Howard is a top-10 Magic player all-time. He single-handedly cost them a title with WOAT-level offense in the finals, then nonsensically grew his ego further out of that debacle and imploded a promising team, paving the way for a decade of negative impact on like 12 franchises before LeBron carried him to redemption. The highlight of his Orlando tenure was the dark comedy that was Dwight, Stan, and the Pepsi can.

Howard's tenure ended miserably in Orlando so I can't be persuaded that he isn't the Magic's clear GOAT. What I can't be persuaded is that Shaq is the Magic's GOAT.

1. He got out of dodge as quickly as possible.
2. He was as disdainful of the Magic as Howard.
3. He feuded with a great Magic in Penny.
4. Howard's Orlando career lasted twice as long and culminated in similar levels of success but sustained longer.
5. He left the leader in most statistical categories.

Toronto: How could this not be Vince Carter? They made a Netflix doc for him.

Most exciting Raptor of all-time of course. But:

1. The glory years of the Raptors were the teens. A championship, multiple title runs, much better RSs. Carter's Raptors were totally irrelevant out of 1 year.
2. His tenure ended nuclear bad with him pulling a Harden and dogging the team to get traded. Fans despised him for years and only reconciled later but it took a long time.
3. The highest peak on the Raptors is easily Kawhi.

I just don't see Carter holding the title of the GOAT because he was an awesome dunker

[eminence]

Thoughts by team as they come up. Don't have thoughts on all of them, so just skipped some.

Heat - I wouldn't really bother mentioning LeBron/Mourning as all that close to Wade.

Sixers - I think Schayes should be considered the franchise GOAT over DrJ. Barkley the clear #3 in my mind.

Kings - Obviously Oscar if he counts. I'd lean Peja over Webber for Sacramento days.

Spurs - Sounds harsh, but I don't think Robinson is all that close.

Hawks - Similar to Kings, if St. Louis days count I think it should be cleanly Pettit. Wilkins only if we're only doing Atlanta days.

Nets - I'd go DrJ by a slim margin over Kidd. Shoutout to Buck Williams.

Nuggets - Issel deserves mention here as well, though I expect I'll be going clearly Jokic by the end of this season.

Pistons - Thomas is probably the consensus pick, but I've never been much into him. I think Billups/Laimbeer are viable contenders.

Clippers - I do think this one is pretty easily CP3.

Lakers - I lean Magic very slightly over Kobe, but can't go wrong here.

Grizzlies - I'd go Marc by a narrow margin over Conley.

Bucks - Still going KAJ, but the gap is closing quickley.

Pelicans - I'll go with CP3 over AD.

Knicks - Give me Ewing, with Frazier a noteworthy 2nd.

Thunder - One of the toughest imo, If KD had left in a less controversial manner I think I'd go with him, as is Payton. Westbrook if we're doing the same city thing.

Suns - This one is pretty easily Nash I think.

Blazers - I'd go Drexler, with Dame having a chance, and the forever HM to Walton.

Raptors - Not the most impressive franchise GOAT, but I do think it's pretty cleanly Lowry.

Wizards - I've got to go with Unseld as a lifer, Hayes not so far off though.

[sp6r=underrated]

Heat - I wouldn't really bother mentioning LeBron/Mourning as all that close to Wade.

I agree that the other two aren't close. I brought em up because (i) there are few franchises with a top 3 as good as this; (ii) their an expansion which makes it more impressive; and (iii) the order is extremely clear. All 3 factors make it pretty unique.

Suns - This one is pretty easily Nash I think.

I agree with you on player Nash is the best Suns but he's always been a divisive player in evaluation. I suspect and maybe I'm wrong there is a non-negligble subset of Suns fans who incorrectly think of KJ as their GOAT.

Nuggets - Issel deserves mention here as well, though I expect I'll be going clearly Jokic by the end of this season.

I do think there is a subjective feeling when it comes to franchise GOATs. Nuggets fan can correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Issel was a permanent pariah due to his remarks.

[penbeast0]

Which teams do you think have a GOAT?
...
Wizards: not sure

The only two real possibilities are Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes. Unseld's years were the only ones in franchise history we've ever been relevant, he played for the franchise for a long time from the day he was drafted until the day he retired then went on to both coach and GM, and he was a very very good player and fan favorite. Elvin was the super talent, scoring stats though not efficient, another strong defender who was an ironman for the team throughout most of the 70s, not liked by fans when he was here but was the clear 1st offensive option during the championship and the two finals losses. Most old Bullet fans would go with Wes.

Arenas, Wall, Beal aren't on that level but probably the next 3.

[70sFan]

Pistons - Thomas is probably the consensus pick, but I've never been much into him. I think Billups/Laimbeer are viable contenders.

You can always go with Bob Lanier here.

[Stalwart]

Isiah is the clear Pistons GOAT. Name another Pistons team more iconic and successful than the Bad Boy Pistons.

[JordansBulls]

I think the ones with the questionable GOAT or tie would be more interesting. Such as for the Lakers is it Magic or Kobe or for the Bucks is it Giannis or Kareem. Or who is it for the Sixers?