Higher currently on all time list - Curry vs West

Dr Positivity · Post #1 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:29 am

I was thinking about what it would take for Curry to rank top 10 all time for me. I don't have a problem with valuing his game as much as frequently ranked top 10 ones like Magic and Bird, however I don't like his health history. I thought West was an interesting comp because he also has health as an Achilles heel.

Do you think Curry is already above West? West has a few seasons more longevity. Curry presumably deserves some credit for doing it in this era, although West was hurt by not having 3pt line as much as helped by playing in less deep league.

falcolombardi · Post #2 » by **falcolombardi** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:30 am

i honestly dont know, i struggle comparing across eras so distant from each other, specially because i am not so knowledgeable about the 60's or 70's

what i can say is that it seems like Jerry west about as impactful in 60's basketball as curry was for 2010's basketball

HeartBreakKid · Post #3 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:57 am

West was a better playoff performer than Curry, so I have him over Curry by a decent amount.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #4 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:32 am

West would still be ahead for me.

West
RS Win Shares-162.58
PS Win Shares-26.75

Career Total Points Added-4,198.06

Curry
RS Win Shares-120.46
PS Win Shares-17.11

Career Total Points Added-3,794.44

When you adjust for longevity in era, I think that further favors West.

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:45 am

Curry plays his 13th season righ now, West's last relevant season was 1973 which was also his 13th season. The difference is that even with West's durability problems, he never missed a full season - the least game he played during the season was 51 games in 1968. Curry missed full season in 2020 as well as almost full season in 2012. So it's basically 13 vs 11 seasons in reality.

Now, is it possible to overcome 2 full seasons of difference? In some cases yes, but I don't think it's the case here. I don't think I would take Curry's career over West's even from on-court perspective (ignoring injuries) because I simply think West was more consistent throughout his prime and he was far more resiliant in postseason. West's early years were also better than Curry's.

I wouldn't entertain taking Curry over West for now, but you have to be aware that I'm higher on West than most.

70sFan · Post #6 » by **70sFan** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:47 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:West would still be ahead for me.

West
RS Win Shares-162.58
PS Win Shares-26.75

Career Total Points Added-4,198.06

Curry
RS Win Shares-120.46
PS Win Shares-17.11

Career Total Points Added-3,794.44

When you adjust for longevity in era, I think that further favors West.

Although I don't care about win shares at all, West not only has much higher totals but his WS/48 was also notably higher both in RS and in the playoffs. It's not only about longevity, Curry didn't reach higher level than West.

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:56 am

West for now. If Curry can manage another MVP caliber season he's probably ahead.

70sFan · Post #8 » by **70sFan** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:06 am

Jaivl wrote:West for now. If Curry can manage another MVP caliber season he's probably ahead.

How many MVP-level seasons do you have for either of them right now?

Do you think that Curry is clearly better, more impactful basketball player than West?

Jaivl · Post #9 » by **Jaivl** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:27 am

70sFan wrote:
Jaivl wrote:West for now. If Curry can manage another MVP caliber season he's probably ahead.

How many MVP-level seasons do you have for either of them right now?

Do you think that Curry is clearly better, more impactful basketball player than West?

5-6 for both. I do think Curry peaked somewhat higher.

Stalwart · Post #10 » by **Stalwart** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:11 am

I have to go with Curry. He's has had too many historical accomplishments to ignore.

He has the best regular season record AND the best playoff record of all time. Unanimous MVP. "Greatest shooter of all time". Cornerstone of a dynasty. Plus Curry deserves the most credit for revolutionizing the game. And thats not even mentioning the 3 NBA titles and 2 MVPs.

West has the longevity, durability, and playoff resiliency argument. And he also has significant pioneer points to somewhat offset Curry as a revolutionary.

Its close but gotta go with Curry.

ty 4191 · Post #11 » by **ty 4191** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:56 pm

70sFan wrote:I wouldn't entertain taking Curry over West for now, but you have to be aware that I'm higher on West than most.

Why wouldn't you entertain taking Curry over West at the moment?

Why do you rank West higher than most?

falcolombardi · Post #12 » by **falcolombardi** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:01 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
70sFan wrote:I wouldn't entertain taking Curry over West for now, but you have to be aware that I'm higher on West than most.

Why wouldn't you entertain taking Curry over West at the moment?

Why do you rank West higher than most?

somethingh to consider is that curry team success may overshadow that west was probably just as good of a play-off performer if not better (at a pure boxscore look he actually appears better)

and west was a offensive outlier in his own era like curry is in this while being generally considered (off reputation) a really great defender

is not hard to see how that profile doesnt stack up well against nearly anyone

No-more-rings · Post #13 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:14 pm

I think to pick Curry you have to exhibit some degree of bias or perhaps an over-emphasis on regular season play. I think you can probably count on one hand who were better postseason scorers than West in league history. Jordan, Lebron and Kareem for sure. Who else has as a good case? Shaq? Dirk? Maybe we can look at Kobe or Durant but I think that is stretching it.

West's year by year scoring performances in the playoffs. With some great performances against Russell's Celtics in there.

1962- 31.5 ppg/54.4 ts%(+6.5 rts%)
1963- 27.8 ppg/54.8 ts%(+5.5 rts%)
1964- 31.2 ppg/56.4 ts%(+7.9 rts%)
1965- 40.6 ppg/53.4 ts%(+5.5 rts%)
1966- 34.2 ppg/58.1 ts%(+9.4 rts%)
1968- 30.8 ppg/59.6 ts%(+9.8 rts%)
1969- 30.9 ppg/54.2 ts%(+5.1 rts%)
1970- 31.2 ppg/55 ts%(+3.9 rts%)

Curry's gravity is better, I'm not sure if he really has a passing advantage, but West is a much better defender and a more consistently dominant playoff scorer. Without a 3 point line, Curry's scoring wouldn't come close to that imo.

If you'd rather have Curry today that's one thing, but given how the 2 actually performed, West seems to come out on top.

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:08 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
70sFan wrote:I wouldn't entertain taking Curry over West for now, but you have to be aware that I'm higher on West than most.

Why wouldn't you entertain taking Curry over West at the moment?

Why do you rank West higher than most?

Better longevity, better postseason performance, more MVP-level seasons and much better defensive impact.

Dr Positivity · Post #15 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:18 pm

No-more-rings wrote:I think to pick Curry you have to exhibit some degree of bias or perhaps an over-emphasis on regular season play.

For me it comes down to how much you downgrade 60s vs 10s/20s.

migya · Post #16 » by **migya** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:37 pm

West and by a considerable margin still. West has monster numbers for his career and took his team to the finals almost every year..Curry is awesome but it's only been 10 odd years at the star level for him

No-more-rings · Post #17 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:28 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I think to pick Curry you have to exhibit some degree of bias or perhaps an over-emphasis on regular season play.

For me it comes down to how much you downgrade 60s vs 10s/20s.

People don’t downgrade the 60s for Wilt and Russell, don’t see why West should be any different.

I get it though, I don’t think it’s a given that West is better than Curry today. It would probably be more or less a wash, but it’s just speculation. I don’t think Curry on the other hand has West level impact in older decades, so there’s that. I can’t imagine West not being an elite player today though, he has skills that definitely translate. He’s not real athletic, but he’s a solid 6’4-6’5 with good range and is a good passer. Maybe his defensive impact is less of a factor today, but that’s probably it.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #18 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:12 pm

My top 10 has a bunch of centers which knocks West out of the top 10 and also knocks Curry out of the top 10. If you are playing with a 3 point line I think Curry is better than West. Without a 3 point line Curry might be equal to West.

Hakeem vs Curry and West. Kind of difficult comparison. Centers are apples. Power forwards are crosses between Apple and Orange.
Small forwards and off guards are Oranges. Muggsy Bougues is a lemon (not in the insult meaning). Point guards are crosses between lemons and oranges.

I don't like longevity or rings as measurements of greatness. I do value playoff games more than regular season.
Bernard Kings 12 playoff games in 1984 were a spectacular peak but that peak is so short that that is is too short to use that peak alone in my ranking of Bernard King.

1960s ball and 2020 ball are not the same game. Rules were enforced by the book in the 1960s. Small push offs were fouls. Picks could not move. Double dribble and Palming were called. There was no gather step in the 1960s. Players today routinely take 1 to 2 steps more today without a traveling call than would have been allowed in in the 1960s.

I don't like Elgin Baylor's low shooting percentage but how much better could Balyor have shot if he was allowed two run with the ball for 2 speps more at the end of his dribbles?

Peak Shaq putting intentional offensive fouls into his moves would be called fouls in 2020 and in the 1960s. But the guys hacking Shaq would have also been called for fouls more in 2020 and 1960. The rules did not allow Wilt to Bulldoze Russell, had the rules allowed Wilt to play like peak Shaq or peak Moses Malone Russell would have won less championships presuming Wilt who wanted people to see his skills and not just his size would have been willing to simply over power Russell.

ty 4191 · Post #19 » by **ty 4191** » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:07 am

70sFan wrote:Better longevity, better postseason performance, more MVP-level seasons and much better defensive impact.

How do you know West had much more defensive impact?

Do you think the NBA from 1961-1974 was on par, depth and quality wise, compared to 2009-2022?

70sFan · Post #20 » by **70sFan** » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:29 am

ty 4191 wrote:How do you know West had much more defensive impact?

Number of reasons, mostly because I watch games and it's evident who is the better defender. It's not only my opinion, coaches from that era raved about West defense.

Do you think the NBA from 1961-1974 was on par, depth and quality wise, compared to 2009-2022?

You asked me about it a lot of times, you know that I don't think that way. At the same time, it was much harder for West to make an impact in an era due to the rules.