RealGM

Regular season wise Curry blows away Reggie but in the playoffs their stats look pretty close does Miller have a case as being a better playoff performer?

Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Statistical footprint and eye test: Curry

Highlight film package/Iconic Moments: Miller.

C'mon man.

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Seems a bit disingenuous comparing career numbers, considering Curry's were age 24-30 while Miller's was 24-39. Comparing the same age frame, Miller's scoring average is instead 24.7 ppg/48.1 fg% 43.6 3pfg%. There's a lot more context to consider, but the way you did it depicts the gap to be bigger than it is.

There's maybe a case to be made that Miller is the better postseason scorer. I think his size helps with that, but Curry's passing is at a different level, and he's even a better rebounder although that part is probably inconsequential.

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Their scoring stats are way closer than that

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Looking at Miller's stats during his prime and between the same ages vs Curry's:

Miller (24-35): 32.9pts/100poss, 122ortg, 6.05bpm, 60.5%TS
Miller (24-30): 34.9pts/100poss, 125.5ortg, 6.6bpm, 62.5%TS
Curry (24-30): 34.8pts/100poss, 116ortg, 6.4bpm, 60.9%TS

Answer is Curry here still, but the offensive stats are very close.

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Curry:
26,5 PPG, 6,3 APG, +6,5 rTS, +9 rORtg.

Miller put his %100 potential on the playoffs, but besides easy series Curry always was in the panic.

No-more-rings wrote:

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Seems a bit disingenuous comparing career numbers, considering Curry's were age 24-30 while Miller's was 24-39. Comparing the same age frame, Miller's scoring average is instead 24.7 ppg/48.1 fg% 43.6 3pfg%. There's a lot more context to consider, but the way you did it depicts the gap to be bigger than it is.

There's maybe a case to be made that Miller is the better postseason scorer. I think his size helps with that, but Curry's passing is at a different level, and he's even a better rebounder although that part is probably inconsequential.

Reggie Miller in the Playoffs from 1990-99:
• 27.0 Points/75 on +11.3 rTS%

Kevin Durant in the playoffs from 2012-19:
• 29.0 Points/75 on +6.2 rTS%

Steph Curry in the playoffs from 2014-19:
• 28.0 Points/75 on +9.0 rTS%

James Harden in the playoffs from 2015-21:
• 28.1 Points/75 on +5.5 rTS%

Close as scorers I guess, would say Curry is still better. Everything else it's easily Curry.

Perhaps Miller was a bit more resilient relative to expectations and role but I'd have to dive into that a bit more.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Seems a bit disingenuous comparing career numbers, considering Curry's were age 24-30 while Miller's was 24-39. Comparing the same age frame, Miller's scoring average is instead 24.7 ppg/48.1 fg% 43.6 3pfg%. There's a lot more context to consider, but the way you did it depicts the gap to be bigger than it is.

There's maybe a case to be made that Miller is the better postseason scorer. I think his size helps with that, but Curry's passing is at a different level, and he's even a better rebounder although that part is probably inconsequential.

Reggie Miller in the Playoffs from 1990-99:
• 27.0 Points/75 on +11.3 rTS%

Kevin Durant in the playoffs from 2012-19:
• 29.0 Points/75 on +6.2 rTS%

Steph Curry in the playoffs from 2014-19:
• 28.0 Points/75 on +9.0 rTS%

James Harden in the playoffs from 2015-21:
• 28.1 Points/75 on +5.5 rTS%

reggie was somethingh else wow

feyki wrote:

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Curry:
26,5 PPG, 6,3 APG, +6,5 rTS, +9 rORtg.

Miller put his %100 potential on the playoffs, but besides easy series Curry always was in the panic.

reggie offenses were better thsn curry's?!

wow, i didnt see that coming, i may need to revaluate how good reggie actually was

falcolombardi wrote:wow, i didnt see that coming, i may need to revaluate how good reggie actually was

I think Reggie Miller has a strong case for being the best offensive player in the NBA in '93-94, so yeah, the degree to which people at the time failed to grasp how good Miller was was hard to overstate. They just fundamentally didn't understand Miller's role, which makes sense, because for the most part people still don't understand what Curry's doing, and he's playing the Miller role 30 years after Miller. The lag in understanding is something awful.

One thing I want to say about what people say in this thread:

People are confused when they see Miller "being his best" but Curry "failing to be himself" as a general playoff rule.

The reality is that they were both playing the same style in their signature years, but that because Miller scored so little in the regular season flow, defenses weren't committing everything to try to stop his playoff volume the way they do with Curry. That's not intended as an excuse for Curry though for 2 reasons:

1. The ORtg is the thing to focus on rather than the individual's PPG in general, and particularly so in a role which by definition encourages defenses to open gaping holes for the player's teammates if the defense gets too scared of his scoring.

2. Curry's much criticized playoff stats are excellent by any reasonable standard.

feyki wrote: Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Hmm. How are you calculating this thing you're referring to as rORtg?

Doctor MJ wrote:

feyki wrote: Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Hmm. How are you calculating this thing you're referring to as rORtg?

Player individual offensive rating relative to opponent regular season team defensive rating(all from bbref).

feyki wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

feyki wrote: Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Hmm. How are you calculating this thing you're referring to as rORtg?

Player individual offensive rating relative to opponent regular season team defensive rating(all from bbref).

Okay, so let me walk through one year here.

In '00-01, Reggie Miller plays 1 series, which makes this easy to calculate.

In that series according to bkref, his On-Court ORtg is 103.1, while playing a team with a 98.9 RS DRtg, which means that he should have a rORtg of +4.2. Is that what you got?

If you instead used 117 as his ORtg from his Per 100 numbers on bkref, then you're using a different metric. That metric comes from Dean Oliver, and is not related to +/-.

Doctor MJ wrote:

feyki wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
Hmm. How are you calculating this thing you're referring to as rORtg?

Player individual offensive rating relative to opponent regular season team defensive rating(all from bbref).

Okay, so let me walk through one year here.

In '00-01, Reggie Miller plays 1 series, which makes this easy to calculate.

In that series according to bkref, his On-Court ORtg is 103.1, while playing a team with a 98.9 RS DRtg, which means that he should have a rORtg of +4.2. Is that what you got?

If you instead used 117 as his ORtg from his Per 100 numbers on bkref, then you're using a different metric. That metric comes from Dean Oliver, and is not related to +/-.

Yes, this is what I do. Individual. On court offensive rating is not exist for past 97.

feyki wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

feyki wrote:
Player individual offensive rating relative to opponent regular season team defensive rating(all from bbref).

Okay, so let me walk through one year here.

In '00-01, Reggie Miller plays 1 series, which makes this easy to calculate.

In that series according to bkref, his On-Court ORtg is 103.1, while playing a team with a 98.9 RS DRtg, which means that he should have a rORtg of +4.2. Is that what you got?

If you instead used 117 as his ORtg from his Per 100 numbers on bkref, then you're using a different metric. That metric comes from Dean Oliver, and is not related to +/-.

Yes, this is what I do. Individual. On court offensive rating is not exist for past 97.

Okay, so long as we're clear that this has nothing to do with how the team actually did when he was out there.

Honestly, as much as I appreciate Oliver's book when he released it in 2004, and as much as his 4 Factors remain useful, I think his ORtg & DRtg need to be removed from bkref. It gets confused for +/- data, and I'm not sure how many people exist who actually know how Oliver's ratings work and see specific meaning in them.

Doctor MJ wrote:

feyki wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
Okay, so let me walk through one year here.

In '00-01, Reggie Miller plays 1 series, which makes this easy to calculate.

In that series according to bkref, his On-Court ORtg is 103.1, while playing a team with a 98.9 RS DRtg, which means that he should have a rORtg of +4.2. Is that what you got?

If you instead used 117 as his ORtg from his Per 100 numbers on bkref, then you're using a different metric. That metric comes from Dean Oliver, and is not related to +/-.

Yes, this is what I do. Individual. On court offensive rating is not exist for past 97.

Okay, so long as we're clear that this has nothing to do with how the team actually did when he was out there.

Honestly, as much as I appreciate Oliver's book when he released it in 2004, and as much as his 4 Factors remain useful, I think his ORtg & DRtg need to be removed from bkref. It gets confused for +/- data, and I'm not sure how many people exist who actually know how Oliver's ratings work and see specific meaning in them.

Probably you also know it, Bbref's owner Kubatko's relation with Oliver. Even I could say a few years ago that Bbref = Off/Def Ratings + Win shares. Kubatko also created the win shares with Oliver's ratings, which is kind of flag of the site.

I'm also thinking parallel with you. It has to be seperated with on court ratings. But like I said Kubatko probably wants to put it front of on court ratings.

falcolombardi wrote:

feyki wrote:

Lenneth wrote:Curry in PO

26.5 pts / 45% FG / 40.1% 3pts / 5.4 rebs / 6.3 asts
18-4 series win/loss, 3 championships

Miller in PO

20.6 pts / 44.9% FG / 39% 3pts / 2.9 rebs / 2.5 asts
14-15 series win/loss, 0 championship.

I don't think it's that close.

Miller till the 37:
23,5 PPG, 2,6 APG, +9 rTS, +17 rORtg.

Curry:
26,5 PPG, 6,3 APG, +6,5 rTS, +9 rORtg.

Miller put his %100 potential on the playoffs, but besides easy series Curry always was in the panic.

reggie offenses were better thsn curry's?!

wow, i didnt see that coming, i may need to revaluate how good reggie actually was

what is MJ's rTS looks like ? i can see Reggie > MJ coming soon