RealGM

G: Kyrie
G: Curry
F: KD
F: Tatum
C: Jokic

H/M: Luka, Embiid,

does basketball intelligence count here as a skill? body control?

Define skilled because there are some glaring omissions on this list.

Tatum is not even the most skilled Celtic forward ever.

SkyHookFTW wrote:Tatum is not even the most skilled Celtic forward ever.

i think he is talking about currently Active players, notice that all his picks are in the league right now

falcolombardi wrote:does basketball intelligence count here as a skill? body control?

Intelligence imo is a bit different or basketball IQ. Body control counts for sure.

Kyrie is has been considered the most skilled PG in the league by a comfortable margin, but you don't really here about his on the court IQ much.

SkyHookFTW wrote:Tatum is not even the most skilled Celtic forward ever.

It goes to show just how skilled the NBA is today when only one position is something you have a disagreement with when only current players are listed.

Colbinii wrote:

SkyHookFTW wrote:Tatum is not even the most skilled Celtic forward ever.

It goes to show just how skilled the NBA is today when only one position is something you have a disagreement with when only current players are listed.

I could haggle every position, but forward is so stacked through every era. But I did brain fart and not realize it was just players on the court today. His list is quite good. I'd like to see that team up against other era teams.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:G: Kyrie
G: Curry
F: KD
F: Tatum
C: Jokic

H/M: Luka, Embiid,

none of those players have more skill than Trae. Just height and athletic ability.

What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

I don't think Kyrie is that athletic. And I did forget about Paul, but Kyries dribbling alone imo makes him elite. But Paul would be in for Curry more than likely.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

I don't think Kyrie is that athletic. And I did forget about Paul, but Kyries dribbling alone imo makes him elite. But Paul would be in for Curry more than likely.

He's certainly more athletic than oldman Paul. I don't think Kyrie has better handles than CP3 either.

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Gooner wrote:

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Paul is a better shooter and finisher at every distance except three point shooting. I think you being a Jordan fan should praise midrange game more than that. Paul is much better midrange scorer and he's consistently a better finisher inside the paint despite smaller size.

Kyrie is better at getting rid of defender now because he's significantly quicker, younger and bigger than Paul. All of that didn't turn him into a better fonisher though, surprisingly.

70sFan wrote:

Gooner wrote:

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Paul is a better shooter and finisher at every distance except three point shooting. I think you being a Jordan fan should praise midrange game more than that. Paul is much better midrange scorer and he's consistently a better finisher inside the paint despite smaller size.

Kyrie is better at getting rid of defender now because he's significantly quicker, younger and bigger than Paul. All of that didn't turn him into a better fonisher though, surprisingly.

Irving takes and makes much more difficult shots than Paul. That matters a lot when we talk about skill. That's like saying Seth Curry is a better 3 point shooter than Steph. Irving is very efficient especially considering the degree of difficulty and volume of his shots. He is a member of the 50-40-90 club, Paul isn't, despite much lower volume of shots.

Gooner wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Gooner wrote:
Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Paul is a better shooter and finisher at every distance except three point shooting. I think you being a Jordan fan should praise midrange game more than that. Paul is much better midrange scorer and he's consistently a better finisher inside the paint despite smaller size.

Kyrie is better at getting rid of defender now because he's significantly quicker, younger and bigger than Paul. All of that didn't turn him into a better fonisher though, surprisingly.

Irving takes and makes much more difficult shots than Paul. That matters a lot when we talk about skill. That's like saying Seth Curry is a better 3 point shooter than Steph. Irving is very efficient especially considering the degree of difficulty and volume of his shots. He is a member of the 50-40-90 club, Paul isn't, despite much lower volume of shots.

Comparing Paul to Seth shooting selection in terms of the level of difficulty is dishonest to say the least...

Nash
Doncic
Bird
Dirk
Jokic
.

70sFan wrote:

Gooner wrote:

70sFan wrote:What's the case for Kyrie over Paul? Paul has no athleticism at this point and he still destroys Kyrie in majority of basketball skills.

Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Paul is a better shooter and finisher at every distance except three point shooting. I think you being a Jordan fan should praise midrange game more than that. Paul is much better midrange scorer and he's consistently a better finisher inside the paint despite smaller size.

Kyrie is better at getting rid of defender now because he's significantly quicker, younger and bigger than Paul. All of that didn't turn him into a better fonisher though, surprisingly.

I think the better and much better are throwing around without considering the context. CP3 and Kyrie are at the same level in terms of scoring efficiency, both really good(.581 vs .577TS%). 0.004% difference means 1 more field goal made over 250 attempts (~15 games).

The tiny advantage of finishing under the basket for CP3 (.619FG% vs. .611FG%, or 1.3% better) is overshadowed by his small volume in scoring there (15.4% vs. 23.7%, or 53.9% lower relative volume). Kyrie is definitely the better finisher here as he can CP3 has to rely a lot more on mid range shooting. Dwight Powell finishes in the paint at a higher rate than Shaq (.776FG% vs. .754FG%), but he is no Shaq because he could not do nearly close to the volume.

dygaction wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Gooner wrote:
Only thing Paul is better at is passing, and that's because Irving is really a shooting guard with attacking instinct. He is at his best at the 2 where he can be a secondary creator and a dynamic scorer, that's where Irving is at his absolute best. He is more similar to Devin Booker than Chris Paul with his play style.

Irving is a better ball handler than Paul, he just gets rid of his defender easier than anybody. Paul is a great shooter but Kyrie is even better. He is a much better finisher in the paint than Paul and he uses both hands extremely well. His footwork is better in tight spaces as he keeps great balance of off his pivot foot and gets his shot off in any situation. He also uses the eurostep very well to avoid the defender, and he uses deceleration to create space better than anybody in the NBA.

It's hard to find anybody in the history of NBA who had such a deep bag offensively. Kyrie has all the skills and he is definitely one of the most complete scorers ever.

Paul is a better shooter and finisher at every distance except three point shooting. I think you being a Jordan fan should praise midrange game more than that. Paul is much better midrange scorer and he's consistently a better finisher inside the paint despite smaller size.

Kyrie is better at getting rid of defender now because he's significantly quicker, younger and bigger than Paul. All of that didn't turn him into a better fonisher though, surprisingly.

I think the better and much better are throwing around without considering the context. CP3 and Kyrie are at the same level in terms of scoring efficiency, both really good(.581 vs .577TS%). 0.004% difference means 1 more field goal made over 250 attempts (~15 games).

The tiny advantage of finishing under the basket for CP3 (.619FG% vs. .611FG%, or 1.3% better) is overshadowed by his small volume in scoring there (15.4% vs. 23.7%, or 53.9% lower relative volume). Kyrie is definitely the better finisher here as he can CP3 has to rely a lot more on mid range shooting. Dwight Powell finishes in the paint at a higher rate than Shaq (.776FG% vs. .754FG%), but he is no Shaq because he could not do nearly close to the volume.

Note that I said Paul is much better midrange scorer, not finisher. This one is not up to debate.

About finishing - you may be right, I used poor words to describe what I meant. Paul is very slightly more efficient finisher inside vs Kyrie on considerably lower volume. My point is that given that Paul still finishes slightly better than Kyrie, despite being significantly smaller, older and slower shows that he's likely more skilled finisher than Kyrie.

With that being said, you compare Kyrie's 2012-22 numbers to Paul's 2006-22 numbers. The league environment was significantly different in 2006-11 era than 2017-22. If we compare their finishing numbers in the same era, efficiency gap looks significantly different (as well as volume numbers):

2012-22 Kyrie: 61.1 FG% on 23.7% volume
2012-22 Paul: 66.4 FG% on 9.7% volume

Again, it's almost impossible to compare their stats. Past prime Paul still finished considerably better than Kyrie, but on much lower volume. If we compare their best finishing seasons, I don't see Kyrie to have the clear edge. Kyrie's best combination of volume and efficiency was never clearly better than the best Paul finishing seasons.

Luka is more skilled than Tatum.