Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal
Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,462
- And1: 1,808
- Joined: Aug 11, 2014
-
Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
Which player would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,510
- And1: 7,112
- Joined: Apr 13, 2021
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
prime jordan played against both of them so is not "who would" but "who did" guard him better
we would need to look into boxscores and available footage
we would need to look into boxscores and available footage
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,462
- And1: 1,808
- Joined: Aug 11, 2014
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
falcolombardi wrote:prime jordan played against both of them so is not "who would" but "who did" guard him better
we would need to look into boxscores and available footage
Lmfao




Good point. Yeah, I'm curios because I always here these guys mentioned as two of the tops defensive Wings of all time.
If you would look it up please haha
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,462
- And1: 1,808
- Joined: Aug 11, 2014
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
falcolombardi wrote:prime jordan played against both of them so is not "who would" but "who did" guard him better
we would need to look into boxscores and available footage
Forget about it, he averaged exactly 31 points on both, although against Moncrief 52% FG, and Cooper 47%.
I take those with a grain of salt though, because stopping MJ was about a team game. I'm not sure how well the supporting cast was...
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,510
- And1: 7,112
- Joined: Apr 13, 2021
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
mdonnelly1989 wrote:falcolombardi wrote:prime jordan played against both of them so is not "who would" but "who did" guard him better
we would need to look into boxscores and available footage
Forget about it, he averaged exactly 31 points on both, although against Moncrief 52% FG, and Cooper 47%.
I take those with a grain of salt though, because stopping MJ was about a team game. I'm not sure how well the supporting cast was...
i akso wouldnt take the fg% at face value either
is technically possible that cooper fouled more which would mean lower fg% without reducing efficiency, while moncrief allowed a high fg% but without giving free throws
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 29,911
- And1: 25,248
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
From what I've seen, Cooper was better Jordan defender. You need length to bother Jordan and although Squid had very long arms, he was a bit undersized next to Jordan. Cooper had enough quickness to stay in front of Jordan as well.
It's just a short video so don't use it as an argument, but it shows nicely how tough it was for MJ to create easy points against Coop:
It's just a short video so don't use it as an argument, but it shows nicely how tough it was for MJ to create easy points against Coop:
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
- KobesScarf
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,855
- And1: 604
- Joined: Jul 17, 2016
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 29,911
- And1: 25,248
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
KobesScarf wrote:Cooper is very overrated
He was overrated in a way that he won DPOY, but I don't find him overrated compared to other great defensove guards. Why do you think he was overrated?
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
- KobesScarf
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,855
- And1: 604
- Joined: Jul 17, 2016
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
I just feel like he gets extra credit for being the best defender on a team that didn't care about defense.70sFan wrote:KobesScarf wrote:Cooper is very overrated
He was overrated in a way that he won DPOY, but I don't find him overrated compared to other great defensove guards. Why do you think he was overrated?
He wasn't close to the same level as Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson and several others
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 29,911
- And1: 25,248
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
KobesScarf wrote:I just feel like he gets extra credit for being the best defender on a team that didn't care about defense.70sFan wrote:KobesScarf wrote:Cooper is very overrated
He was overrated in a way that he won DPOY, but I don't find him overrated compared to other great defensove guards. Why do you think he was overrated?
He wasn't close to the same level as Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson and several others
Lakers were quite good for a team who didn't care about defense.
I'd definitely put him ahead of Robertson. The rest are arguable.
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,287
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
KobesScarf wrote:I just feel like he gets extra credit for being the best defender on a team that didn't care about defense.70sFan wrote:KobesScarf wrote:Cooper is very overrated
He was overrated in a way that he won DPOY, but I don't find him overrated compared to other great defensove guards. Why do you think he was overrated?
He wasn't close to the same level as Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson and several others
Hmm.
So first: I do think the way Cooper got championed as DPOY to be very hard to justify. It's not just that he's not a big, it's that it felt like "This Laker hasn't gotten love for doing his thing, so he should!"
With that said, the idea that you would think it obvious that Cooper wasn't as good as Robertson is odd to me. Cooper is an ultra-long man defender whose play allowed Magic to better freelance. Robertson was primarily known for gambling for steals on teams who gave up too many easy shots.
I'm personally very skeptical of Robertson's impact, but even if you aren't, a key part of his reputation involves an area that the Lakers specifically chose not to use Cooper for...so how are you comparing them? Are you knocking Cooper for not doing something he wasn't supposed to you? or, Are you specifically ignoring that area and saying that Robertson as a man defender was way better than Cooper?
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,510
- And1: 7,112
- Joined: Apr 13, 2021
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
is not alvin the only dpoy winner from a below league average defense?
maybe he was still fantastic but that data point always seems very surprising to me about his dpoy
maybe he was still fantastic but that data point always seems very surprising to me about his dpoy
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,287
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Which player of these two would do the best defensively on Prime MJ: Sidney Moncrief or Michael Cooper?
falcolombardi wrote:is not alvin the only dpoy winner from a below league average defense?
maybe he was still fantastic but that data point always seems very surprising to me about his dpoy
Robertson has a very good case as the most overrated DPOY by a wide margin. It was based on his Steals numbers, and that is a precarious stat. When you get a steal, it's arguably the most valuable box score event you can get...but any stat that represents an action that occurs successfully 1 in every 25 possessions should make us ask:
How is this effecting the other 24 possessions?
When I see a great defense whose key edges seem to be based on steals I have no problem pointing to a thief as possibly their most valuable defender and a DPOY candidate, but in a defense that is giving up high eFG to the opponent, you have to ask whether they'd be in better shape if the ball thief played defense more defensively.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!