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Name your top 10 Defenders in nba history and make the case for them.


Mine:

1. Bill Russell -
Simply unmatched. How effect defensively made his team so much better and lead them to 11 championships. He was versatile, had the smarts and incredible speed that enabled him to be great both on ball and help defensively. An amazing athlete with the IQ to match.

2. Wilt Chamberlain -
According to many that played in his era he blocked more shots than Russell and is underrated defensively because he was such a great scorer. Late in his career it was his defense that has been said to have been his best strength in the Lakers championship.

3. Hakeem Olajuwon -
Similar to Russell, but a bit less with speed. He was the only good defender on his teams most of his career. He was great on ball and was incredible helping cover his teammates. Alltime leader in blocks and the best big in steals as well.

4. David Robinson -
Also similar to Russell and built very similar. Incredible athlete with speed and smarts that lead low talented teams, being the only good defender most of his prime. His speed was unmatched among the great bigs in his era.

5. Tim Duncan -
Very smart and savvy. Not as fast as the others but as smart is not slightly smarter than most. Also carried his team who has some overrated defenders.

6. Kevin Gannett -
Great interior and perimeter defender who was not the best at either one but was probably the best at combination of both. Was the only good defender on his teams also but showed how much his defense is effective when on the winning Celtics.

7. Ben Wallace -
Amazing what he was able to do at his height against usually much bigger players. Also great interior and great the perimeter with great help defense as well as on ball. His incredible energy is probably unmatched at his position defensively.

8. Michael Jordan -
May have been underrated defensively in recent times but in his era he was absolutely the best at defending the perimeter. Often limited other star guards to far below their usual level. His high energy made him so unique, playing offense the best as well.

9. Scottie Pippen -
Similar to Jordan but not as fast and longer. He also limited opponents on the perimeter unlike most in history.

10. Dikembe Mutombo -
Amongst the best shot blockers in history, though shower than the others mentioned. Great timing and smarts. A sky scraper that was so long and that many times limited the interior better than most bigs.

HM -
Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Patrick Ewing, Bill Walton, Draymond Green

RUSSEL

HAKEEM

WILT

MUTOMBO

MIKAN

DUNCAN

GARNETT

EATON

ROBINSON

EWING

HM: DRAYMOND, WALLACE, GOBERT, MOURNING, PIPPEN, WALTON (LONGEVITY), KAWHI

Not in order

Russell
Hakeem
Robinson
Wilt
Garnett
Duncan
Mutombo
Wallace
Thurmond
Mikan

russell
rodman
mj
hakeem
moncrief
gobert
dikembe
draymond
pippen
duncan

Is this about careers or peaks? These lists would look slightly different.

70sFan wrote:Is this about careers or peaks? These lists would look slightly different.

agreed. i generally try to combine the two, but often lean peak - not saying that's the right way, rather just how i tend to do these lists.

Russell
Olajuwon
Robinson
Thurmond
Mutumbo
Chamberlain
Duncan
Wallace
Ewing
Garnett

Statlanta wrote:Russell
Olajuwon
Robinson
Thurmond
Mutumbo
Chamberlain
Duncan
Wallace
Ewing
Garnett

It's hard to argue against this list, though I do wonder if someone like Dwight, Kareem or Mourning might have an argument over 2 or 3 of those guys.

i have the feeling this list should be all bigs, i dont know if there is a single perimeter player who had top 10 all time defensive impact

if there was one it probably would be a big wing like pippen or bobby jones more than a guard like jordan or moncrief

also hot take (?) lebron defensive peak in 2009 beats jordan defensive peak, still wouldnt have either top 20

For 2 years peaks I'd go with something like this:

1. 1964-65 Bill Russell
2. 1989-90 Hakeem Olajuwon
3. 1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo
4. 1994-95 David Robinson
5. 2003-04 Tim Duncan
6. 1967-68 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 2003-04 Kevin Garnett
8. 1971-72 Nate Thurmond
9. 1977-78 Bill Walton
10. 1992-93 Patrick Ewing

11. 2004-05 Ben Wallace
12. 1987-88 Mark Eaton
13. 2020-21 Rudy Gobert
14. 2016-17 Draymond Green
15. 2009-10 Dwight Howard
16. 1975-76 Artis Gilmore
17. 1972-73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
18. 1999-00 Alonzo Mourning
19. 1973-74 Dave Cowens
20. 1957-58 Maurice Stokes

Something like that. Did I miss anyone notable?

70sFan wrote:For 2 years peaks I'd go with something like this:

1. 1964-65 Bill Russell
2. 1989-90 Hakeem Olajuwon
3. 1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo
4. 1994-95 David Robinson
5. 2003-04 Tim Duncan
6. 1967-68 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 2003-04 Kevin Garnett
8. 1971-72 Nate Thurmond
9. 1977-78 Bill Walton
10. 1992-93 Patrick Ewing

11. 2004-05 Ben Wallace
12. 1987-88 Mark Eaton
13. 2020-21 Rudy Gobert
14. 2016-17 Draymond Green
15. 2009-10 Dwight Howard
16. 1975-76 Artis Gilmore
17. 1972-73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
18. 1999-00 Alonzo Mourning
19. 1973-74 Dave Cowens
20. 1957-58 Maurice Stokes

Something like that. Did I miss anyone notable?

What makes you go Gobert>Dwight? Because I can’t really think what area of d Gobert is clearly better at. They are close though.

No-more-rings wrote:

70sFan wrote:For 2 years peaks I'd go with something like this:

1. 1964-65 Bill Russell
2. 1989-90 Hakeem Olajuwon
3. 1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo
4. 1994-95 David Robinson
5. 2003-04 Tim Duncan
6. 1967-68 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 2003-04 Kevin Garnett
8. 1971-72 Nate Thurmond
9. 1977-78 Bill Walton
10. 1992-93 Patrick Ewing

11. 2004-05 Ben Wallace
12. 1987-88 Mark Eaton
13. 2020-21 Rudy Gobert
14. 2016-17 Draymond Green
15. 2009-10 Dwight Howard
16. 1975-76 Artis Gilmore
17. 1972-73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
18. 1999-00 Alonzo Mourning
19. 1973-74 Dave Cowens
20. 1957-58 Maurice Stokes

Something like that. Did I miss anyone notable?

What makes you go Gobert>Dwight? Because I can’t really think what area of d Gobert is clearly better at. They are close though.

I think Gobert is a more intimidating paint protector, despite lower blocks numbers. He's also a bit smarter with his help rotations, although Howard was quicker and more athletic so maybe it's a tie here. Gobert probably is slightly better man defender as well, although neither is special in that aspect.

Howard's main advanatges are quickness and verticality. They are very close, but I think I prefer what I see from Gobert.

That said, I haven't tracked Dwight games yet. When I start doing it, I may change my opinion about his defensive impact a bit. What is your thought about this comparison?

falcolombardi wrote:i have the feeling this list should be all bigs, i dont know if there is a single perimeter player who had top 10 all time defensive impact

if there was one it probably would be a big wing like pippen or bobby jones more than a guard like jordan or moncrief

also hot take (?) lebron defensive peak in 2009 beats jordan defensive peak, still wouldnt have either top 20

Bobby Jones wasn't really a wing any more than Draymond Green (maybe less as Green has more wing type skills). He was a big who was quick enough to swing to the 3 or even the 2 or up to the 5 but he was primarily a 4.

Bobby Jones wasn't really a wing any more than Draymond Green (maybe less as Green has more wing type skills). He was a big who was quick enough to swing to the 3 or even the 2 or up to the 5 but he was primarily a 4.

Go watch some 76ers/Bucks games from the early 1980s on YouTube. You will see Bobby Jones often guarding Marques Johnson and Dr.J. covering the opposing PF or just roaming. Jones was very versatile on who he could guard. Yes he was first and foremost a PF on offense but on defense he was able to cover any opposing player.

Same with 76ers/Celtics games from that era. Watch Jones guarding Larry Bird so Doc could roam on defense.

migya wrote:Name your top 10 Defenders in nba history and make the case for them.


Mine:

1. Bill Russell -
Simply unmatched. How effect defensively made his team so much better and lead them to 11 championships. He was versatile, had the smarts and incredible speed that enabled him to be great both on ball and help defensively. An amazing athlete with the IQ to match.

2. Wilt Chamberlain -
According to many that played in his era he blocked more shots than Russell and is underrated defensively because he was such a great scorer. Late in his career it was his defense that has been said to have been his best strength in the Lakers championship.

3. Hakeem Olajuwon -
Similar to Russell, but a bit less with speed. He was the only good defender on his teams most of his career. He was great on ball and was incredible helping cover his teammates. Alltime leader in blocks and the best big in steals as well.

4. David Robinson -
Also similar to Russell and built very similar. Incredible athlete with speed and smarts that lead low talented teams, being the only good defender most of his prime. His speed was unmatched among the great bigs in his era.

5. Tim Duncan -
Very smart and savvy. Not as fast as the others but as smart is not slightly smarter than most. Also carried his team who has some overrated defenders.

6. Kevin Gannett -
Great interior and perimeter defender who was not the best at either one but was probably the best at combination of both. Was the only good defender on his teams also but showed how much his defense is effective when on the winning Celtics.

7. Ben Wallace -
Amazing what he was able to do at his height against usually much bigger players. Also great interior and great the perimeter with great help defense as well as on ball. His incredible energy is probably unmatched at his position defensively.

8. Michael Jordan -
May have been underrated defensively in recent times but in his era he was absolutely the best at defending the perimeter. Often limited other star guards to far below their usual level. His high energy made him so unique, playing offense the best as well.

9. Scottie Pippen -
Similar to Jordan but not as fast and longer. He also limited opponents on the perimeter unlike most in history.

10. Dikembe Mutombo -
Amongst the best shot blockers in history, though shower than the others mentioned. Great timing and smarts. A sky scraper that was so long and that many times limited the interior better than most bigs.

HM -
Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Patrick Ewing, Bill Walton, Draymond Green

Nice list. I probably wouldn't have Pippen or Jordan there (not that they weren't great), and I'm not sure if we're taking peaks or career. For example, peak Walton is much, much more then peak Pippen or Jordan.

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

70sFan wrote:For 2 years peaks I'd go with something like this:

1. 1964-65 Bill Russell
2. 1989-90 Hakeem Olajuwon
3. 1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo
4. 1994-95 David Robinson
5. 2003-04 Tim Duncan
6. 1967-68 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 2003-04 Kevin Garnett
8. 1971-72 Nate Thurmond
9. 1977-78 Bill Walton
10. 1992-93 Patrick Ewing

11. 2004-05 Ben Wallace
12. 1987-88 Mark Eaton
13. 2020-21 Rudy Gobert
14. 2016-17 Draymond Green
15. 2009-10 Dwight Howard
16. 1975-76 Artis Gilmore
17. 1972-73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
18. 1999-00 Alonzo Mourning
19. 1973-74 Dave Cowens
20. 1957-58 Maurice Stokes

Something like that. Did I miss anyone notable?

What makes you go Gobert>Dwight? Because I can’t really think what area of d Gobert is clearly better at. They are close though.

I think Gobert is a more intimidating paint protector, despite lower blocks numbers. He's also a bit smarter with his help rotations, although Howard was quicker and more athletic so maybe it's a tie here. Gobert probably is slightly better man defender as well, although neither is special in that aspect.

Howard's main advanatges are quickness and verticality. They are very close, but I think I prefer what I see from Gobert.

That said, I haven't tracked Dwight games yet. When I start doing it, I may change my opinion about his defensive impact a bit. What is your thought about this comparison?

For pure 2 year peaks I'm not sure I would have Ewing or Admiral that high. I might change Ben Wallace with Ewing and drop D-Rob to 6th. I know you love Nate, but I'm not sure if he's that high all time for a 2 year peak. The more I look at it Deke at 3rd is a little generous as well.

70sFan wrote:Is this about careers or peaks? These lists would look slightly different.

Career.

tihsad wrote:

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:What makes you go Gobert>Dwight? Because I can’t really think what area of d Gobert is clearly better at. They are close though.

I think Gobert is a more intimidating paint protector, despite lower blocks numbers. He's also a bit smarter with his help rotations, although Howard was quicker and more athletic so maybe it's a tie here. Gobert probably is slightly better man defender as well, although neither is special in that aspect.

Howard's main advanatges are quickness and verticality. They are very close, but I think I prefer what I see from Gobert.

That said, I haven't tracked Dwight games yet. When I start doing it, I may change my opinion about his defensive impact a bit. What is your thought about this comparison?

For pure 2 year peaks I'm not sure I would have Ewing or Admiral that high. I might change Ben Wallace with Ewing and drop D-Rob to 6th. I know you love Nate, but I'm not sure if he's that high all time for a 2 year peak. The more I look at it Deke at 3rd is a little generous as well.

Why do you think Ewing and Admiral are overrated on my list?

Who would you have over Thurmond?

I don't think it's generous with Mutombo. I mean, top 3 is extremely high so you can find someone in his place, but Dikembe was just so impactful. Going by defensive impact metrics, he was probably the best defender of the last 30 years and he carried heavily his teams on that end. I also find all of the subtle thing he did (mobility, P&R coverage, help defense rotations) extremely underrated. He was just very smart defender and yet quite athletic at his peak. People often underestimate his value, he wasn't just big shotblocker.

Jordan is not the 8th best defender of all time...he might be the 8th best perimeter defender.

tihsad wrote:

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:What makes you go Gobert>Dwight? Because I can’t really think what area of d Gobert is clearly better at. They are close though.

I think Gobert is a more intimidating paint protector, despite lower blocks numbers. He's also a bit smarter with his help rotations, although Howard was quicker and more athletic so maybe it's a tie here. Gobert probably is slightly better man defender as well, although neither is special in that aspect.

Howard's main advanatges are quickness and verticality. They are very close, but I think I prefer what I see from Gobert.

That said, I haven't tracked Dwight games yet. When I start doing it, I may change my opinion about his defensive impact a bit. What is your thought about this comparison?

For pure 2 year peaks I'm not sure I would have Ewing or Admiral that high. I might change Ben Wallace with Ewing and drop D-Rob to 6th. I know you love Nate, but I'm not sure if he's that high all time for a 2 year peak. The more I look at it Deke at 3rd is a little generous as well.

I might have gone even higher with Thurmond, if anything. Impact-wise there's no one better (maybe Russell).