Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal
Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Do Warriorized 76ers beat the Lakers?
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
The other guys that get some minutes are Matt Geiger, Kevin Ollie, Tod Muccolich, and Rodney Buford. Geiger and Mucholoch can foul Shaq 12 times. Geiger could hit wide open shots from mid range.
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
The other guys that get some minutes are Matt Geiger, Kevin Ollie, Tod Muccolich, and Rodney Buford. Geiger and Mucholoch can foul Shaq 12 times. Geiger could hit wide open shots from mid range.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Do Warriorized 76ers beat the Lakers?
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
Kinda confused by this.
Do the Curry Warriors beat the Shaq-Kobe Lakers? Yes.
Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 92,145
- And1: 31,743
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Doctor MJ wrote:Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
They are somewhat antithetical in playing style, aren't they?
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,510
- And1: 7,112
- Joined: Apr 13, 2021
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Doctor MJ wrote:SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Do Warriorized 76ers beat the Lakers?
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
Kinda confused by this.
Do the Curry Warriors beat the Shaq-Kobe Lakers? Yes.
Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
you sure? both teams would exploit the hell out of each other but i think the shaq vs draymond mismatch may be biggrr over a 7 game series that shaq vs curry mismatch in the pick and roll
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
falcolombardi wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Do Warriorized 76ers beat the Lakers?
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
Kinda confused by this.
Do the Curry Warriors beat the Shaq-Kobe Lakers? Yes.
Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
you sure? both teams would exploit the hell out of each other but i think the shaq vs draymond mismatch may be biggrr over a 7 game series that shaq vs curry mismatch in the pick and roll
To play like Curry you have to be able to be a great shooter.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 29,911
- And1: 25,247
- Joined: Aug 11, 2015
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
falcolombardi wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Do Warriorized 76ers beat the Lakers?
Combine best of Peak Draymond with best of George Lynch and don’t let that player get injured.
Combine best of Steph Curry with best of Iverson.
Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
Combine best of Aaron McKie with best of Klay Thompson.
I figure Jumaine Jones and rookie Raja Bell still have to hit some shots. Tyrone Hill, Snow and Dikembe are still not good scoring options. Snow can pass.
Kinda confused by this.
Do the Curry Warriors beat the Shaq-Kobe Lakers? Yes.
Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
you sure? both teams would exploit the hell out of each other but i think the shaq vs draymond mismatch may be biggrr over a 7 game series that shaq vs curry mismatch in the pick and roll
The problem is that Warriors also had Durant and that's someone Lakers couldn't neutralize.
Or did you mean pre-KD Warriors? If so, then I would go with the Lakers as well.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Curry starts off the ball with Draymond handling the ball. Iverson starts off the ball with Snow handling the ball.
Iverson chucks some crazy 3s and mostly misses. Curry chucks some crazy 3s and hits at a good enough percentage.
Curry has gravity at the 3 point line.Iverson has gravity just inside the free throw line. Iverson blows past the 1st defender. Curry dances his way past the 1st defender but is not fast enough to get separation. Iverson dribbles through crowds sometimes getting bumped without getting the call. After dribbling through the crowd Iverson takes tough off balance shots and mostly misses. Curry could probably hit the shots that Iverson misses. Iverson gets shooting space by being in fast motion while shooting. Curry when dribbling throw crowds tends to dribble away from the hoop and shoot flip shots off the backboard as he dribbles to the baseline.
I don’t think they are so different that the combination player is not imaginable. Start by imagining Curry with Iverson’s speed. The imagine Iverson with Curry’s shooting touch.
I think Curry is a better passer than Iverson but Iverson has the ball more.
Iverson chucks some crazy 3s and mostly misses. Curry chucks some crazy 3s and hits at a good enough percentage.
Curry has gravity at the 3 point line.Iverson has gravity just inside the free throw line. Iverson blows past the 1st defender. Curry dances his way past the 1st defender but is not fast enough to get separation. Iverson dribbles through crowds sometimes getting bumped without getting the call. After dribbling through the crowd Iverson takes tough off balance shots and mostly misses. Curry could probably hit the shots that Iverson misses. Iverson gets shooting space by being in fast motion while shooting. Curry when dribbling throw crowds tends to dribble away from the hoop and shoot flip shots off the backboard as he dribbles to the baseline.
I don’t think they are so different that the combination player is not imaginable. Start by imagining Curry with Iverson’s speed. The imagine Iverson with Curry’s shooting touch.
I think Curry is a better passer than Iverson but Iverson has the ball more.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 92,145
- And1: 31,743
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Doctor MJ wrote:
To play like Curry you have to be able to be a great shooter.
I think, and he can confirm, was that he was speaking of a hypothetical hybrid player?
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
tsherkin wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
They are somewhat antithetical in playing style, aren't they?
They are but I was giving the benefit of the doubt there, but the lack of extreme shooting ability to me just blows the whole scenario up.
To flip things the other way:
If we put Curry in Iverson's shoes and defenses don't notice the difference, I'd probably hand Curry the ball and tell him to shoot from deep every single possession.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
70sFan wrote:falcolombardi wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:
Kinda confused by this.
Do the Curry Warriors beat the Shaq-Kobe Lakers? Yes.
Is there any way for Iverson to play anything like Curry? No.
you sure? both teams would exploit the hell out of each other but i think the shaq vs draymond mismatch may be biggrr over a 7 game series that shaq vs curry mismatch in the pick and roll
The problem is that Warriors also had Durant and that's someone Lakers couldn't neutralize.
Or did you mean pre-KD Warriors? If so, then I would go with the Lakers as well.
I think Klay, Draymond and Curry may have all peaked about mid season in 2015-16. That is the version that I am tacking on to the 76ers.
Tacking KD onto Tyrone Hill would make this no contest the 76ers would absolutely win.
I am not giving this team KD.
But I am giving the 76ers better versions of Curry, Draymond and Klay than KD ever played with and better versions of Klay and Curry than appeared in the 2016 finals when the Warriors were burned out and Curry was playing injured. Draymond was the best player in game 7 of 2016 finals and presumably would have been FMVP had Barnes, Curry and Klay each hit a few more of the open shots that they hit all year long in game 7 when both the Cavs and Warriors were shooting as if they were trying to throw the game.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
tsherkin wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:
To play like Curry you have to be able to be a great shooter.
I think, and he can confirm, was that he was speaking of a hypothetical hybrid player?
I struggle with the middle ground here.
If the hybrid player can shoot like Curry, then the Warriors win, if he shoots like Iverson, then the Lakers win. Clearly there's some level of shooting in between that would represent the key threshold, but we have no way to specify meaningfully where that threshold would be.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
I am assuming that the hybrid players are the players that the Lakers scouted. No surprise attack.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:I don’t think they are so different that the combination player is not imaginable. Start by imagining Curry with Iverson’s speed. The imagine Iverson with Curry’s shooting touch.
.
Curry with Curry's gifts...Warriors win.
Iverson with Curry's gifts...Warriors win.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 92,145
- And1: 31,743
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Doctor MJ wrote:If we put Curry in Iverson's shoes and defenses don't notice the difference, I'd probably hand Curry the ball and tell him to shoot from deep every single possession.
It'd be kind of hilarious dumping Curry into an era that wasn't prepared to defend that kind of volume from the 3pt line.
Doctor MJ wrote:I struggle with the middle ground here.
If the hybrid player can shoot like Curry, then the Warriors win, if he shoots like Iverson, then the Lakers win. Clearly there's some level of shooting in between that would represent the key threshold, but we have no way to specify meaningfully where that threshold would be.
In his OP, he does talk about the hybrid having Curry's shooting touch. All I got from the OP was this: Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
So, a more athletic Steph? But also, the wording of that implies that Steph's strength is his finishing touch in the restricted area and along the baseline (where he's certainly good), rather than his perimeter shooting, so I share your confusion.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
George Lynch was a key player for the 76ers. I am making George Lynch healthy. Healthy George Lynch alone certainly does not make the 76ers beat the Lakers. George Lynch missed the first half of the series was was not healthy when he played some minutes for the second half of the series.
While Iverson can certainly handle the ball and create for others the 76ers used Point Forward George Lynch and Eric Snow and sometimes Kevin Ollie as co-ball-handlers with Iverson. They allowed Iverson to save energy. They could pass the ball to Iverson when Iverson was already in motion.
George Lynch was a good point forward but not as good as Draymond. Tyrone Hill and Jumaine Jones got injured Lynch’s minutes because Lynch played both small forward and power forward. Jumaine Jones had deeper shooting range than Lynch and Tyrone Hill was a better rebounder than Lynch because although Lynch was a good rebounder, Tyrone Hill was a better very good rebounder.
Lynch, Hill and Jones were all good defenders but Draymond is a better defender.
While Iverson can certainly handle the ball and create for others the 76ers used Point Forward George Lynch and Eric Snow and sometimes Kevin Ollie as co-ball-handlers with Iverson. They allowed Iverson to save energy. They could pass the ball to Iverson when Iverson was already in motion.
George Lynch was a good point forward but not as good as Draymond. Tyrone Hill and Jumaine Jones got injured Lynch’s minutes because Lynch played both small forward and power forward. Jumaine Jones had deeper shooting range than Lynch and Tyrone Hill was a better rebounder than Lynch because although Lynch was a good rebounder, Tyrone Hill was a better very good rebounder.
Lynch, Hill and Jones were all good defenders but Draymond is a better defender.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,712
- And1: 2,759
- Joined: Aug 25, 2005
- Location: Northern California
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
No KD. KD just passed through the Warriors. I would add Iguodala before I add KD.Klay, Dray and Curry are the Warriors.
I think KD hated being the 5th most loved player by Warrior fans and the Warriors not being his team. But I think KD joined the Warriors to experience team ball so he should not be upset at just being a member of the team instead dominating the team like LeBron dominated teams.
I think KD hated being the 5th most loved player by Warrior fans and the Warriors not being his team. But I think KD joined the Warriors to experience team ball so he should not be upset at just being a member of the team instead dominating the team like LeBron dominated teams.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
tsherkin wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:If we put Curry in Iverson's shoes and defenses don't notice the difference, I'd probably hand Curry the ball and tell him to shoot from deep every single possession.
It'd be kind of hilarious dumping Curry into an era that wasn't prepared to defend that kind of volume from the 3pt line.Doctor MJ wrote:I struggle with the middle ground here.
If the hybrid player can shoot like Curry, then the Warriors win, if he shoots like Iverson, then the Lakers win. Clearly there's some level of shooting in between that would represent the key threshold, but we have no way to specify meaningfully where that threshold would be.
In his OP, he does talk about the hybrid having Curry's shooting touch. All I got from the OP was this: Player can ball fake as Curry, blow by and accelerate as Iverson and then finish the shot with a Curry’s touch.
So, a more athletic Steph? But also, the wording of that implies that Steph's strength is his finishing touch in the restricted area and along the baseline (where he's certainly good), rather than his perimeter shooting, so I share your confusion.
Ah, so it's more about making use of extreme shooting ability to make lay ups and other end-of-drive scenarios but not trying to take advantage of 3's perhaps?
Thing for me is that I think a major part of what would kill the Lakers is what it would do to Shaq's defense making him defend out to the perimeter. The combination of 3's counting 50% more and Shaq becoming an absolutely huge defensive weakness to me ruins the Lakers in the matchup, but if you're not going to do that, then I don't see a drastic difference from what happened in 2001.
Obviously, if Iverson ends up hitting every single lay-up - even the scoop shots from 12 feet over defenders' arms - the 76ers might would pass a threshold that would let them win, but in general, I'm going to take the Lakers if you're trying to go toe-to-toe with them scoring in the interior.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 92,145
- And1: 31,743
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Doctor MJ wrote:
Ah, so it's more about making use of extreme shooting ability to make lay ups and other end-of-drive scenarios but not trying to take advantage of 3's perhaps?
It could be, I guess. It's certainly an interesting thought.
Thing for me is that I think a major part of what would kill the Lakers is what it would do to Shaq's defense making him defend out to the perimeter. The combination of 3's counting 50% more and Shaq becoming an absolutely huge defensive weakness to me ruins the Lakers in the matchup, but if you're not going to do that, then I don't see a drastic difference from what happened in 2001.
Agreed. That's what I meant before about it being hilarious to watch them deal with Steph. The Lakers as a team took about 15.5 3s per game that year. Steph alone would be putting nearly a team's worth of pressure on them, so they'd have to float out there. It was still a fairly big deal that they had a 4-man who could shoot the 3 to open up the interior for Shaq. Having a guy like Steph bombing away at that level from 3 was unheard of. The league had only seen 8+ 3PA/g from George McCloud in 96 and Michael Adams at that point in the league (and the from Antoine Walker in 02); they had no real conception that a player could or even should do such a thing. They'd be flabbergasted.
Obviously, if Iverson ends up hitting every single lay-up - even the scoop shots from 12 feet over defenders' arms - the 76ers might would pass a threshold that would let them win, but in general, I'm going to take the Lakers if you're trying to go toe-to-toe with them scoring in the interior.
Yeah, that was in their wheelhouse for sure.
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
-
- Senior Mod
- Posts: 53,286
- And1: 22,291
- Joined: Mar 10, 2005
- Location: Cali
-
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
tsherkin wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:If we put Curry in Iverson's shoes and defenses don't notice the difference, I'd probably hand Curry the ball and tell him to shoot from deep every single possession.
It'd be kind of hilarious dumping Curry into an era that wasn't prepared to defend that kind of volume from the 3pt line.
This is what always makes me chuckle when people ask whether Curry could play in the '80s or '90s. So long as you used the modern strategies that take advantage of the arc that was already in place, he'd be more effective back then, not less. The more practical question is how he'd end up getting used by the actual NBA coaches back then, and there the answer is quite likely that he'd never even get in the game (or in the league).
(Asking how Curry would do pre-3 on the other hand is an interesting question. It would be all the more reason for coaches not to even consider letting him on the team, but the spacing he could provide if used from range might still be very valuable even if his shots only counted for 2/3rds as much.)
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
- eminence
- RealGM
- Posts: 16,942
- And1: 11,769
- Joined: Mar 07, 2015
Re: Do Warriorized Iverson 76ers beat Shaq Kobe Lakers?
Steph/AI
Dray/Lynch
Klay/McKie
Put those combos in place of the original Sixers guys at the start of the season (thus allowing scouting) and make everyone injury proof?
I'd go with the Sixers over the Lakers pretty cleanly. Those Lakers were really just the Shaq Lakers at that point.
Dray/Lynch
Klay/McKie
Put those combos in place of the original Sixers guys at the start of the season (thus allowing scouting) and make everyone injury proof?
I'd go with the Sixers over the Lakers pretty cleanly. Those Lakers were really just the Shaq Lakers at that point.
I bought a boat.