RealGM

Who is the better player?

Robinson was elite on both ends. Jokic has the all-around offensive big man skills but Robinson had the speed, athleticism and drew fouls better than most bigs ever. Defense is huge difference.

Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

No-more-rings wrote:Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

Individually, maybe Jokic, but ultimately it would be fit. I can build an elite defence with Robinson as the hub. At best I might be credible that end with Jokic.

Robinson had to deal with Hakeem as well and was in the conference finals.

That's the choice I have the biggest problem with for now. I need to track more Robinson games before coming with conclusion (especially on defensive end). So far I only tracked 5 games from 1994 and I like what I've seen on offense (which I know isn't sustainable in playoffs) and defense.

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

He played well his first two seasons, 90 and 91, and also 95 and 96 in the playoffs. He's had his good performances.

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

if the comparision is only offensw vs dwfense then sure

but we saw robinson scoring be really good as a second option to duncan, hence my point

i think robinson the secondary scorer> jokic the dwfensove anchor in value

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Jokic is a far superior playoff performer, I’m taking him.

in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

I think the question is what is more concerning - Robinson inability to sustain his offensive production in the playoffs or Jokic struggles on defensive end. The question is also how much value Robinson keeps on defensive end, that's something I will look at very closely during my work.

Jokic was getting lit up on defense by the Warriors. He provides zero rim protection.

I'm picking Jokic, but I think Robinson sometimes gets overlooked for the massive carry job he had on poor teams and bad coaching, which in turn magnifies some of his playoff shortcomings.

colts18 wrote:Jokic was getting lit up on defense by the Warriors. He provides zero rim protection.

Jaren Jackson a top 5 Dpoy finalist didnt do so hot on defense in game 1 against them with a much better supporting cast......I mean we realize this is the Warriors right an elite offense that is prolly gonna win the title....... With Steph, Klay and now Poole who's a star level guard. Jokic defense the first 2 games was horrific but he did better the last 3. How many defensive bigs arent getting lit up by them or scored on by Steph and Poole on isos or pick and roll?

Robinson wasnt exactly shutting down the Run Tmc Warriors in playoffs either who are similar offenses

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-western-conference-first-round-warriors-vs-spurs.html

GSP wrote:

colts18 wrote:Jokic was getting lit up on defense by the Warriors. He provides zero rim protection.

Jaren Jackson a top 5 Dpoy finalist didnt do so hot on defense in game 1 against them with a much better supporting cast......I mean we realize this is the Warriors right an elite offense that is prolly gonna win the title....... With Steph, Klay and now Poole who's a star level guard. Jokic defense the first 2 games was horrific but he did better the last 3. How many defensive bigs arent getting lit up by them or scored on by Steph and Poole on isos or pick and roll?

Robinson wasnt exactly shutting down the Run Tmc Warriors in playoffs either who are similar offenses

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-western-conference-first-round-warriors-vs-spurs.html

The Nuggets had the worst rim defense in the playoffs. They allowed a 74% FG% on shots less than 5 feet from the basket

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent-shooting/?sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=1

GSP wrote:

colts18 wrote:Jokic was getting lit up on defense by the Warriors. He provides zero rim protection.

Jaren Jackson a top 5 Dpoy finalist didnt do so hot on defense in game 1 against them with a much better supporting cast......I mean we realize this is the Warriors right an elite offense that is prolly gonna win the title....... With Steph, Klay and now Poole who's a star level guard. Jokic defense the first 2 games was horrific but he did better the last 3. How many defensive bigs arent getting lit up by them or scored on by Steph and Poole on isos or pick and roll?

Robinson wasnt exactly shutting down the Run Tmc Warriors in playoffs either who are similar offenses

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-western-conference-first-round-warriors-vs-spurs.html

at no point in the regular season the warriors were a elite offense

this doesnt necesarrily mean they are not one come into the playoffs tho, lots of teams play into form in defense or offense in the playoffs (just look at bucks defense now vs their regular season ranking)

Robinson was elite on both ends. Jokic has the all-around offensive big man skills but Robinson had the speed, athleticism and drew fouls better than most bigs ever. Defense is huge difference.

That's the choice I have the biggest problem with for now. I need to track more Robinson games before coming with conclusion (especially on defensive end).

The question is also how much value Robinson keeps on defensive end, that's something I will look at very closely during my work.

Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

David Robinson was the starting C for the Spurs for 13 seasons, 1989-90 to 1996-97, and 1997-98 to 2002-03.

Those 13 seasons the Spurs were the best team in the league defensively in the regular season at 101.0 points per 100 possessions allowed. Robinson played 34124 minutes over that time, 1/8 to 1/7 of the team's total minutes played. No other Spur played even 21000 minutes, and Duncan played just half the minutes Robinson played.

The Spurs made the playoffs 12 of those seasons (all but 1991-92). Of the 21 teams that made the playoffs in at least 6 of those seasons, San Antonio was the best playoff team defensively at 101.1 points per 100 possessions allowed. Robinson again played 1/8 to 1/7 of the team's total playoff minutes played, and he played almost 1200 more playoff minutes than any other Spurs player over those 12 playoff runs.

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:
in offense* robinson defense is all time

as lone stars i may take jokic since he retains most of his value while robinson O shrinks

in a team with another offensive star where robinson is not forced to try carryng a offense and is a superb complomentary offensive piece while giving all-world defense? can go either way imo, but may trust joker a bit more?

I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

if the comparision is only offensw vs dwfense then sure

but we saw robinson scoring be really good as a second option to duncan, hence my point

i think robinson the secondary scorer> jokic the dwfensove anchor in value

Well when we get to players of this caliber, I'm not generally going to judge by who looks better as a secondary player.

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:I'll say again, Jokic at his peak is yes a significantly better playoff performer than Drob at his. It doesn't seem that close to me either, Drob had real problems scoring against strong defenses. I don't think we can say that about Jokic given his track record. Yeah I know Drob's defense is a lot better, but there's no way you can convince me it's as impactful as Jokic's offense.

if the comparision is only offensw vs dwfense then sure

but we saw robinson scoring be really good as a second option to duncan, hence my point

i think robinson the secondary scorer> jokic the dwfensove anchor in value

Well when we get to players of this caliber, I'm not generally going to judge by who looks better as a secondary player.

Secondry scorer, not secondary player.

70sFan wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:
if the comparision is only offensw vs dwfense then sure

but we saw robinson scoring be really good as a second option to duncan, hence my point

i think robinson the secondary scorer> jokic the dwfensove anchor in value

Well when we get to players of this caliber, I'm not generally going to judge by who looks better as a secondary player.

Secondry scorer, not secondary player.

Well he used next to Duncan as an example. Just imagine how dominant Jokic and Duncan would look next to each other.