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Celtics 86:
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Bill Walton

Off the bench: Robert Parish, Scott Wedman

Cavs 18:
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Kyle Korver
LeBron James
Kevin Love

Off the bench: Isaiah Thomas, George Hill, Jae Crowder, JR Smith

All in prime - which team is better?

I mean the Cavs are more talented, but the fit isn't great. Rose/Wade/Lebron all on 1 team is overkill. Lebron/Wade somewhat overlapped. Adding Rose to that makes him redundant. That is an incredibly athletic trio, but I don't see it being optimal.

I think the Celtics would win. Their fit is better and they have less weaknesses to be exploited.

Peak Walton with peak Bird? That would be insane...

The defense would be a issue for the cavs especially the rim protection

70sFan wrote:Peak Walton with peak Bird? That would be insane...

Walton would break his foot in Game 1 trying to contain Rose/Wade/LeBron drives. Prime Walton is still extremely glassy

The 88 Celtics might be even better for an "all in their primes" team. You'd have Gilmore instead of Walton, flanked by Jim Paxson and Reggie Lewis in Wedman's place. The deep bench guys also seem better: Lohaus and Roberts were pretty serviceable players, whereas the 86 bench after Walton (or Parish in this case), Wedman, and Sichting looks quite shallow. Sure, it's not like Brad Lohaus and Fred Roberts are needle movers regarding all-time teams but it's better to have 10 NBA players on the roster than 8.

Gilmore / Parish
McHale / Roberts / Lohaus
Bird / Lewis
Ainge / Paxson
DJ

Cavs would have a pretty significant athletic advantage but the Celtics are just a better fit together, enough to counteract all that? Probably.

Ideally I'd actually move Rose to the bench for Korver for this specific matchup but that would never be practical IRL.

Jaivl wrote:

70sFan wrote:Peak Walton with peak Bird? That would be insane...

Walton would break his foot in Game 1 trying to contain Rose/Wade/LeBron drives. Prime Walton is still extremely glassy

Julius/Free/McGinnis didn't do him that, neither would these guys!!

DJ, Ainge, and Bird would get lit up like a christmas tree trying to guard Rose/Wade/LeBron. Look at what an injured 23 year old MJ did to them. Now imagine 06 Wade who was better than that version of MJ going against the slow footed DJ. Then Danny Ainge has to guard Derrick Rose which would be a massacre of epic proportions.

colts18 wrote:DJ, Ainge, and Bird would get lit up like a christmas tree trying to guard Rose/Wade/LeBron. Look at what an injured 23 year old MJ did to them. Now imagine 06 Wade who was better than that version of MJ going against the slow footed DJ. Then Danny Ainge has to guard Derrick Rose which would be a massacre of epic proportions.

We're taking peak DJ, so you won't get slow footed DJ but a version that could shut down peak David Thompson in the playoffs.

it would be an interesting matchup, cavs taking 3's ehere celtics would take long 2's is a very big deal to bridge tge overall talent gap

would be interesting to see whether celtics size inside punishes cavs more than cavs shooting punishes celtics 3 big lineup

The only thing I know for sure is that the 1986 Celtics are the better team. That said, the 2018 Cavaliers have the greatest equalizer ever in LeBron James. I'm not sure if 2018 LeBron would have been enough, but if he willed his way to 4 wins out of the 7 games, I wouldn't be totally surprised. (See Pacers and Celtics series - they were better teams than the Cavs in 2018, but LeBron willed his way to winning to those series).

Cavs get waxed due to horrible fit and extremely suspect rim protection.

I suspect that the Celtics would smoke these Cavs. The fit and spacing is very bad, and Boston's defense was both strong and would not be pressured at all by outside shooting.

70sFan wrote:

colts18 wrote:DJ, Ainge, and Bird would get lit up like a christmas tree trying to guard Rose/Wade/LeBron. Look at what an injured 23 year old MJ did to them. Now imagine 06 Wade who was better than that version of MJ going against the slow footed DJ. Then Danny Ainge has to guard Derrick Rose which would be a massacre of epic proportions.

We're taking peak DJ, so you won't get slow footed DJ but a version that could shut down peak David Thompson in the playoffs.

That still leaves Danny Ainge guarding Derrick Rose which is a complete mismatch. Then on the perimeter, Kevin McHale is going to guard LeBron James which is another huge mismatch. McHale doesn't have the lateral footspeed to keep up with 2009 LeBron.

If I was the Cavs, I would run a D Wade or Rose Pick n Roll with LeBron every play because the Celtics could not stop it.

Dominique Wilkins had 7 30+ Point games vs the 86 Celtics. 2 of them being 40+ points. We obviously know what MJ did vs the Celtics. The Celtics of that era had trouble vs. Athletic wing players. None of their perimeter defenders were fleet of foot. There is no chance the Celtics could guard 2 or 3 athletic freaks at the same time because it means that Ainge and Bird would have guard players who are clear mismatches.

The Celtics might win the series due to their offense, but they have zero shot at stopping Wade/Rose/LeBron.

tsherkin wrote:I suspect that the Celtics would smoke these Cavs. The fit and spacing is very bad, and Boston's defense was both strong and would not be pressured at all by outside shooting.

No pressure? Korver was still a massive threat from 3, and Lebron and Love both averaged 5+ 3 point attempts on good or decent efficiency during the regular season. Also for some reason JR wasn't listed. Don't know how that's "very bad" spacing exactly.

70sFan wrote:Peak Walton with peak Bird? That would be insane...

Older broken Walton with Bird might have been an ATG team’s best pairing…imagine a ‘77/‘78 Walton with that Bird. When McHale and/or Parrish were out, those Bird/Walton lineups (or their second quarter lineups with the pairing) were so fun to watch. I’m sure the Cavs would love to see a lot of post up action on the Celtics part, but they’d score for sure on that defense.

On the other hand, a 2009 Wade with a 2018 James or whatever year we want from him would put immense, immense rim pressure on any team playing 5 out. And because you have the luxury of having a DRose, you could play James an intense 40 minutes and Wade and/or Rose 30-35 intense minutes that would wear down teams having to defend against them. I see rebounding as a problem for that Cavs team, though, even though Love is Avery good defensive rebounder.

Would they play with the mentality of their respective seasons? I like the Celts’ fit and their defense but their defense was made to stop offenses of the 1980s, though Walton would be a defensive factor in any era. Bt the Celtics wouldn’t shoot threes and the wide open threes Love and Korver would be shooting all game would be incredibly difficult to overcome. Knowing the Celtics’ roster, Cavs could play prime Calderon and not worry about him as much on defense and space the court as well. I’d probably bring DRose off the bench and run as many pick and rolls with Wade/James or Rose/James as possible knowing what James did with Kyrie in that devastating action.

No-more-rings wrote:

tsherkin wrote:I suspect that the Celtics would smoke these Cavs. The fit and spacing is very bad, and Boston's defense was both strong and would not be pressured at all by outside shooting.

No pressure? Korver was still a massive threat from 3, and Lebron and Love both averaged 5+ 3 point attempts on good or decent efficiency during the regular season. Also for some reason JR wasn't listed. Don't know how that's "very bad" spacing exactly.

Okay, caught me in hyperbole while I overfixated on Wade and exaggerated with Rose because he was so on-ball heavy. Fair play.

colts18 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

colts18 wrote:DJ, Ainge, and Bird would get lit up like a christmas tree trying to guard Rose/Wade/LeBron. Look at what an injured 23 year old MJ did to them. Now imagine 06 Wade who was better than that version of MJ going against the slow footed DJ. Then Danny Ainge has to guard Derrick Rose which would be a massacre of epic proportions.

We're taking peak DJ, so you won't get slow footed DJ but a version that could shut down peak David Thompson in the playoffs.

That still leaves Danny Ainge guarding Derrick Rose which is a complete mismatch. Then on the perimeter, Kevin McHale is going to guard LeBron James which is another huge mismatch. McHale doesn't have the lateral footspeed to keep up with 2009 LeBron.

If I was the Cavs, I would run a D Wade or Rose Pick n Roll with LeBron every play because the Celtics could not stop it.

Dominique Wilkins had 7 30+ Point games vs the 86 Celtics. 2 of them being 40+ points. We obviously know what MJ did vs the Celtics. The Celtics of that era had trouble vs. Athletic wing players. None of their perimeter defenders were fleet of foot. There is no chance the Celtics could guard 2 or 3 athletic freaks at the same time because it means that Ainge and Bird would have guard players who are clear mismatches.

The Celtics might win the series due to their offense, but they have zero shot at stopping Wade/Rose/LeBron.

So you have three slashers on this team, none of which is a good three point shooter (if you want to take 2009 James). How are you going to maximize their impact? They wouldn't be able to drive at the same time. To be honest, I don't see any value in Rose next to Wade and James. I'm not concerned about him being guarded by Ainge at all, especially not with McHale/Parish/Walton guarding the paint.

I'd put DJ on Wade, as he was very athletic in the late 1970s and early 1980s, yet just as strong as he was in Boston. He wouldn't shut him down of course, but with such a immense rim protection behind him he'd do a very good job.

McHale on James isn't perfect, that's true. That said, you can't stop peak James anyway. As long as Wade would struggle and the rest of the team wouldn't bring much scoring I'm fine with James doing James things.

1986 Celtics didn't have peak Walton and peak Johnson. There is a massive difference between their peak versions and 1986 versions.

i actually read this and missed the "all in prime part" at first and read 18 cavs as 16 cavs

i change my pick, with these rules boston clearly wins, rose is also a really bad fit to wade and bron