Worst Players on the Top 10 List?

[pipfan]

First of all-PLEASE, all 10 of these guys are legends. This not for bashing any player. The question is-take the consensus top 10 of
Duncan, KAJ, Hakeem, LBJ, Magic, Bird, Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq (I think that would be it for most, with Kobe/West/Oscar/KG next)

Of these 10 superstars, you can have any of them for their best 10 years. The era doesn't matter. Which 3 would be your "last" choices for team building-and OF COURSE, you can't go wrong with any of them.

I have Magic, Bird, Russell (sorry Celts fans)

I have been watching a lot of old ball recently, and even relative to their era I see these guys with the most weaknesses among the top 10. I also think these 3 benefitted the most from stacked teammates than the other top 10 guys. If I were building a club, I would pick on the the other 7 first. Since the ranking depend on the individual's greatest plus team achievements, I think the other 7 offer more of a foundation to build around.

Which 3 would be your "last" choices, and why?

[pipfan]

First of all-PLEASE, all 10 of these guys are legends. This not for bashing any player. The question is-take the consensus top 10 of
Duncan, KAJ, Hakeem, LBJ, Magic, Bird, Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq (I think that would be it for most, with Kobe/West/Oscar/KG next)

Of these 10 superstars, you can have any of them for their best 10 years. The era doesn't matter. Which 3 would be your "last" choices for team building-and OF COURSE, you can't go wrong with any of them.

I have Magic, Bird, Russell (sorry Celts fans)

I have been watching a lot of old ball recently, and even relative to their era I see these guys with the most weaknesses among the top 10. I also think these 3 benefitted the most from stacked teammates than the other top 10 guys. If I were building a club, I would pick on the the other 7 first. Since the ranking depend on the individual's greatest plus team achievements, I think the other 7 offer more of a foundation to build around-meaning I have Hakeem at #10, but would take him over Bird, Magic and Russell (Duncan too).

Which 3 would be your "last" choices, and why?

[penbeast0]

Assuming a large market, Bird is #10 due to his health issues. 9 probably Hakeem who took a few years to figure out the whole team thing (so did MJ for that matter but his peak/prime were at a higher level). Probably SHaq #8. Shaq would be #10 if I were starting the league today as the low post banger has slipped a bit in value.

If I was a small market, I would worry about the ego guys wanting out which would mean Shaq, LeBron, MJ, and Wilt, Kareem and possibly Hakeem would slip relative to the others.

[Texas Chuck]

I would draft Duncan or Russell and that would be that. Not looking to tick off any of those easily offended when you name their favorite by naming anyone to be last. Just don't need the hassle of that lol.

[falcolombardi]

i feel like i could throw a dart to decide and it would be as likely to be the right choice as mine

[Jaivl]

Best 10 years, I think I go Bird as the less excellent, but it's extremely close with Shaq, Duncan and Magic. Certainly closer than on my actual GOAT list.

[No-more-rings]

Before I answer, are we supposed to factor in the likelihood of them leaving before the 10 years is up? Or are we just sort of judging their talent/ability in a vacuum?

[dygaction]

Wanted to say Kobe or Curry but they were not there

[Narigo]

Russell for being the worse offensive player in the top 10 and Magic and Bird for longevity reasons

[Colbinii]

I voted MJ, Shaq and Bird.

[falcolombardi]

I voted MJ, Shaq and Bird.

spicy

[coastalmarker99]

Bill Russell by a mile.

Shooting only 44% as a center when you were the fourth to fifth option on your team.


And also playing against other players outside of Wilt that couldn't match up with him athletically is downright shameful.



To his credit though he was an amazing defender and rebounder.



But I speak for most people that If you put him into any era past 1970 there is no way in hell that he is winning multiple MVPs.



I also would worry about the fact that if I was a GM and had a horrible team.


How he would handle the pressure of being the man on both sides of the court for 40 plus minutes a night.


Most of the top ten players can be relied upon to carry you on both ends of the court.



And even Russell himself would admit that he would have broken down if he was expected to do what Wilt and Kareem did.

[No-more-rings]

I voted MJ, Shaq and Bird.

Voted Bird, Shaq and Russell. An Mj vote is strange to me considering his good durabilty, loyalty, goat level offense and athleticism among other things. What’s your reasoning?

[Colbinii]

I voted MJ, Shaq and Bird.

Voted Bird, Shaq and Russell. An Mj vote is strange to me considering his good durabilty, loyalty, goat level offense and athleticism among other things. What’s your reasoning?

Not a great teammate and getting bored and leaving the sport.

I also thing perimeter scoring wings who aren't able to be heliocentric has team building constraints other players simply don't have.

[HeartBreakKid]

Bird, Magic and Duncan - because I think they're the 3 worst players pretty much. I don't over think loyalty too much, thats hard to judge in a hypothetical where essentially everything in this alternate universe is going to be different. Wilt Chamberlain would be the main guy this would be a problem with, and he's too good to pass up imo. James and O'Neal can be more than reasoned with, the former wants a good team and the latter wants money.

Duncan's longevity is sexy, but most players primes are about the same length and prime is what I'm paying for.



As for Bill Russell....I can see being skeptical of 1960s players. But if you're skeptical of Bill Russell but not Wilt Chamberlain or even to an extent Kareem Abdul-Jabar, that is really just player style bias.

[coastalmarker99]

The four best players in NBA history based on pure talent alone are.

Wilt

Lebron

Kareem

Jordan


Those four guys were so talented that they could carry seriously bad rosters to the finals.


Wilt did it in 1964 and nearly did it in 1962 and 1960 as well.

Kareem did it in 1974 and nearly did it in as well in 1977.

Lebron did it in 2007,2015.and 2018 and nearly did it as well in 2009.

While Jordan came very close to doing it in 1989 and 1990.





You would have to be an idiot of a GM to mess up building a championship team around these 4 players.

[HeartBreakKid]

double post

[HeartBreakKid]

The four best players in NBA history based on pure talent alone are.

Wilt

Lebron

Kareem

Jordan


Those four guys were so talented that they could carry seriously bad rosters to the finals.


Wilt did it in 1964 and nearly did it in 1962 as well.

Kareem did it in 1974 and nearly did it in as well in 1977.

Lebron did it in 2007,2015.and 2018 and nearly did it as well in 2009.

While Jordan came very close to doing it in 1989 and 1990.





You would have to be an idiot of a GM to mess up building a championship team around these 4 players.

I dont get how you can say Bill Russell wouldn't be good but Wilt Chamberlain you would be an "idiot to pass up on". The gap between them wouldn't be that big

EDIT: misremebered the finals and CF

[coastalmarker99]

The four best players in NBA history based on pure talent alone are.

Wilt

Lebron

Kareem

Jordan


Those four guys were so talented that they could carry seriously bad rosters to the finals.


Wilt did it in 1964 and nearly did it in 1962 as well.

Kareem did it in 1974 and nearly did it in as well in 1977.

Lebron did it in 2007,2015.and 2018 and nearly did it as well in 2009.

While Jordan came very close to doing it in 1989 and 1990.





You would have to be an idiot of a GM to mess up building a championship team around these 4 players.

I dont get how you can say Bill Russell wouldn't be good but Wilt Chamberlain you would be an "idiot to pass up on". The gap between them wouldn't be that big

EDIT: misremebered the finals and CF

There would be a huge gap between the two due to the rules of today favouring offence over defence.

While It is true that Wilt was bigger and stronger than everyone else during the era in which he played in.


Wilt wasn't allowed to basically throw his weight and strength around at all on offence which hurt his game and in turn benefited Russell in their head to head matchups

NBA rules have changed slightly over time, but their enforcement has changed significantly over time.

The rules for offensive and defensive fouls remain more or less the same as they were in 1960, with two notable exceptions.

First, there was no "no charge" circle under the basket, meaning that offensive fouls could be called anywhere on the court.

Second, while the following three rules did exist in some form:

"A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not available for illegal contact to be avoided.

If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.

The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.

PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended."

The following two exceptions did not:

d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.

e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.

Now, what does all of this mean? Combined with strict enforcement of the first 3 rules (something that is no longer true today) with a lack of those final exceptions, it means that, in practice, initiating contact, at all, as an offensive player would usually result in an offensive foul called against you. No matter how little contact you made, you would likely be called for a charge.

In the following video, which contains surprisingly clear footage .


Wilt discussed the difference between the game now and then, beginning with what Shaq was able to do versus what he was allowed to do--namely, barely even touch a defender.

Watch on YouTube

So therefore In this era Wilt would be allowed to mug people on offence as Giannis does nowadays



While also having the benefit of being the best athlete in the NBA due to his insane physical tools.


It would be very easy to build a title team around Wilt's game in this era.


As thinking about an even better Giannis in today's game is scary.

[coastalmarker99]

Think about how rules have been changed to favour the offensive player over the defensive player nowadays.

Wilt

Jordan

Kareem

Lebron


In their primes would utterly feast on offence in today's game while also being a DPOY player


As for Russell, he wouldn't have the same impact as those guys would have on both sides of the court.


Due to the limitations in his offensive game and the new rules favouring offence over defence.


it's common sense.



Surround a young Lebron or Jordan plus Kareem and Wilt with 3 and d players and you would have a nightmare of a team to play against.


As all of those players were basically unstoppable one on one in their primes while also being great playmakers at the same time,



I would shudder to think about the numbers those 4 players would put up in today's game.




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