RealGM

The ECF and new ecfmvp will be named after Cousy and Bird. WCF and wcfmvp will be named after Oscar and Magic.

They should just give a trophy for every possession.

Colbinii wrote:They should just give a trophy for every possession.

And they should call it the PJ Tucker.


I already got scolded for my thoughts(and correctly so), but I think its absolutely fine. I like it even. I think its not nearly as reductive as Colbini is joking about here either. I think players will think this is a cool award to win based on the guys its named after and it brings a little more validity to the conference titles something we've mostly dismissed in the NBA. Baseball gets very few things right, but really giving value to winning the pennant is one they get right.

And I say this as my boy Dirk, walked out on the WCF trophy presentation because of how little he cared lol.. I think he absolutely stays if he is getting presented the Magic Johnson trophy by Magic Johnson. Just like every player is honored to win Mr. Russell's trophy even more because its him.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Colbinii wrote:They should just give a trophy for every possession.

And they should call it the PJ Tucker.


I already got scolded for my thoughts(and correctly so), but I think its absolutely fine. I like it even. I think its not nearly as reductive as Colbini is joking about here either. I think players will think this is a cool award to win based on the guys its named after and it brings a little more validity to the conference titles something we've mostly dismissed in the NBA. Baseball gets very few things right, but really giving value to winning the pennant is one they get right.

And I say this as my boy Dirk, walked out on the WCF trophy presentation because of how little he cared lol.. I think he absolutely stays if he is getting presented the Magic Johnson trophy by Magic Johnson. Just like every player is honored to win Mr. Russell's trophy even more because its him.

One thing I love about baseball is the way the RS isn't dismissed. 100 Games won really is considered a great accomplishment the way 60 games won in the NBA should be considered. And they make a big deal about making the WS. Team brag about pennants. NBA genuinely doesn't seem to care and a lot of fans seem to think losing in the Finals is in some ways worse than not making the finals.

This is partly a product of the sport. Baseball has a much larger element of luck than basketball, as 3Point shooting increases the gap is slightly decreasing, and accordingly every baseball fan knows that the WS doesn't necessarily mean best team.

i see some posters are dissapointed it is not a full playoffs award which is understandable, but i will be real here

a full playoffs award would essentially be always given to a player who won or at least made the finals, full stop

if getting voters to give the fmvp to a losing player is a "once a century" thingh (almost literally) getting them to give a full playoffs award to a player who lost in comference finals (let alone before that) would be harder that threading a camel through the eye of a needle

at most, a playoffs mvp may be given semi frequently to a player who lost in the finals IF he was clearly rhe best player in the finals (example: hakeem if rockets lost the 94 finals) OR clearly the best player over the full playoffs (2018 lebron)

similarly a conference mvp award would only ever be given to players who made the conference finals, a guy who losr in the second round, let alone first, would never get the award regardless of how it is called (conference finals of conference playoffs award)

at most we could hope guys who lost in the conference finals while being clearly the best player in the conference those playoffs (like 2009 lebron) would get it semi regularly

essentially a first round or second round loss would never win an award like these, and a conference final loss would never win a playoffs mvp

so comments mentione someone like 2022 jokic are missing the point, he could have scored 50 points on 80% against the warriors amd still wouldnt get any award if he lost in the first round

that is why i am fine with these awards, they allow voters who are never gonna vote a finals loser as fmvp, the chance to give a reward to guys who were actually the most inpressive players but didnt have a good enough team to win a ring

sp6r=underrated wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Colbinii wrote:They should just give a trophy for every possession.

And they should call it the PJ Tucker.


I already got scolded for my thoughts(and correctly so), but I think its absolutely fine. I like it even. I think its not nearly as reductive as Colbini is joking about here either. I think players will think this is a cool award to win based on the guys its named after and it brings a little more validity to the conference titles something we've mostly dismissed in the NBA. Baseball gets very few things right, but really giving value to winning the pennant is one they get right.

And I say this as my boy Dirk, walked out on the WCF trophy presentation because of how little he cared lol.. I think he absolutely stays if he is getting presented the Magic Johnson trophy by Magic Johnson. Just like every player is honored to win Mr. Russell's trophy even more because its him.

One thing I love about baseball is the way the RS isn't dismissed. 100 Games won really is considered a great accomplishment the way 60 games won in the NBA should be considered. And they make a big deal about making the WS. Team brag about pennants. NBA genuinely doesn't seem to care and a lot of fans seem to think losing in the Finals is in some ways worse than not making the finals.

This is partly a product of the sport. Baseball has a much larger element of luck than basketball, as 3Point shooting increases the gap is slightly decreasing, and accordingly every baseball fan knows that the WS doesn't necessarily mean best team.

even with 3's adding a bit of volatility to the sport, basketball is inherently a incredibly fair sport (one where the best team in a game or series is almost always gonna win it)

low scoring sports like soccer, hockey, baseball and football are inherently unpredictable, is common in soccer for a team to be ragrolled and still win because they scored in their single shot while their better rival missed all 15 of theirs

in contrast high scoring sports like basketball, volleyball and tennis are inherently fair, conceding 1 basket or point by mistake is a much smaller deal than gifting a goal in soccer or a pick-six in football

the error margin is a lot bigger in these high sclring sports

i would go so far as saying that a 1-game nba playoffs wouldnt have more upsets than a 7-game nhl playoffs

falcolombardi wrote:
i would go so far as saying that a 1-game nba playoffs wouldnt have more upsets than a 7-game nhl playoffs

I mostly agree with you.

This feels a bit much? Hockey does have a lot more "upsets", but not sure enough to offset the variance of a one game series. I realize the NCAA is not the NBA, but their tournament frequently has a lot of upstarts including North Carolina in the finals this year.


I'll also say I don't mind that the "best" team doesn't always win. Sports would suck if you played the games via computer simulation.

And frequently people only care when it suits them. Player they love didn't win a title(we hear all about Steve Nash's terrible luck). Player they don't like never wins a title(here is why it is their fault despite them being a huge plus in the minutes they were on the court). Or player X had terrible teammates and every player on team Y's team is a HoFer.

I picked the Bucks over the Suns to start these playoffs. And I'm sticking with that pick, but it's pretty clear that there are other teams capable of representing their conference and it won't feel like a major upset nor any kind of disappointment if we don't get the "Best" teams.

I don't care to be honest, although I'm wondering why WCF trophy is called Oscar Robertson trophy, who played majority of his career on Eastern Conference

falcolombardi wrote:
even with 3's adding a bit of volatility to the sport, basketball is inherently a incredibly fair sport (one where the best team in a game or series is almost always gonna win it)

low scoring sports like soccer, hockey, baseball and football are inherently unpredictable, is common in soccer for a team to be ragrolled and still win because they scored in their single shot while their better rival missed all 15 of theirs

in contrast high scoring sports like basketball, volleyball and tennis are inherently fair, conceding 1 basket or point by mistake is a much smaller deal than gifting a goal in soccer or a pick-six in football

the error margin is a lot bigger in these high sclring sports

i would go so far as saying that a 1-game nba playoffs wouldnt have more upsets than a 7-game nhl playoffs

I didn't mean to imply that the luck element in basketball is now as large as in baseball. It isn't. But rather my point was that the increased adoption of 3s increases the luck element because 3s are subject to more random variance.

And your point about the NBA playoffs vs NHL playoffs may well be correct. This is one reason why the NBA needs to work hard to avoid a title contender or you should tank culture. The truth is the vast majority of teams begin the season with no realistic hope of winning a title. And as fans we are all better off if the good but non-contenders like Toronto try to win games.

70sFan wrote:I don't care to be honest, although I'm wondering why WCF trophy is called Oscar Robertson trophy, who played majority of his career on Eastern Conference

Yeah the Oscar logic made me raise a brow too. Didn’t look into it because I just brushed it off but glad to know my initial reaction wasn’t farfetched lol

My only thoughts is they should have been named after Bird and Magic and left it at that. The double name stuff just feels forced and weird. Hard to say its excessive when we already have player of the week and month awards which I'd say say mean much less. So I'm ok with it.

another award ppl can use in arguments lol

like Confernce MVPs
Booker : 6
LeBron : 0

No offense to Oscar Robertson but who came up with the idea to name the WCF award after him instead of Jerry West?

• The name West is literally perfect for the WCF award
• Jerry West had 11 WCF appearances and his team won it 9 times. Oscar only had 3 WCF appearances, winning twice.
• Oscar's WCF appearances were with the Bucks, a team which nobody associates with the Western conference anymore because they only played in the West for a few seasons in the 70s. And he wasn't even better than Dandridge over those WCF appearances.
• Naming the ECF/WCF award after Cousy/West matches the Celtics/Lakers rivalry theme with Bird/Magic.

But regardless, I don't agree with naming a team achievement after individual players. Imagine if it was the opposite and the NBA named an individual award after team names. The current team trophies for winning the East/West is fine as is.

Also, I think the NBA should have just changed the Finals MVP into a Playoffs MVP similar to the ABA and left it at that. By creating ECF/WCF MVP awards, they are still opening the can of worms on whether a player can be eligible to win if they were eliminated early. Except now there is an additional redundant award because a winner of the ECF/WCF MVP is almost always going to end up winning the FMVP less than two weeks later anyway.

Dont mind the ecf and wcf trophies being named after Magic and Bird. I would do:
Dpoy for Bill Russell
Regular season mvp for Kareem
Finals mvp for Jordan
All star game mvp Pettit
Wcf mvp Kobe
Ecf mvp Lebron
6th man? That could be named after anybody but i will go with Hondo.

LA Bird wrote:No offense to Oscar Robertson but who came up with the idea to name the WCF award after him instead of Jerry West?

• The name West is literally perfect for the WCF award
• Jerry West had 11 WCF appearances and his team won it 9 times. Oscar only had 3 WCF appearances, winning twice.
• Oscar's WCF appearances were with the Bucks, a team which nobody associates with the Western conference anymore because they only played in the West for a few seasons in the 70s. And he wasn't even better than Dandridge over those WCF appearances.
• Naming the ECF/WCF award after Cousy/West matches the Celtics/Lakers rivalry theme with Bird/Magic.

But regardless, I don't agree with naming a team achievement after individual players. Imagine if it was the opposite and the NBA named an individual award after team names. The current team trophies for winning the East/West is fine as is.

Also, I think the NBA should have just changed the Finals MVP into a Playoffs MVP similar to the ABA and left it at that. By creating ECF/WCF MVP awards, they are still opening the can of worms on whether a player can be eligible to win if they were eliminated early. Except now there is an additional redundant award because a winner of the ECF/WCF MVP is almost always going to end up winning the FMVP less than two weeks later anyway.

I agree in the sense that I think these awards are as much or more about finding a way to honor Cousy/Oscar/Magic and Bird than anything else. West is already the logo so on that basis I bet there was zero consideration for using his name.