Shaq - If the same applied to him as others in history

[migya]

Shaq was a great and dominant player but fact is, he was allowed to barge through players and noone else was. He had some other skills but his scoring rerouted heavily on this aspect.

The below video shows how much players couldn't bump into the opposition. Particularly, Chamberlain with his size and strength was hindered by this.

Watch on YouTube

If Shaq wasn't allowed to do what he did physically how effective would he have been and would he still be an alltime great?


I personally think he wouldn't have been. Thigh he had nice hook shot and some speed and agility, shown in some of his offensive moves, he didn't have the silks to score like other Centers. Don't think he'd be top 30 ever and at risk of not being to 50 without gaining other effective offensive skills.

Chamberlain, as a comparison, had a variety of skills to score, including shooting from midrange. If he was allowed to barge through players he'd have averaged 70 for probably more than once.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think he'd be fine if he had stayed under 300lb and played like he did in Orl when I don't think he got away with nearly as much. Still top 15 all time most likely if not higher due to less injuries. Now if the question is more about him going up to 350+lb and still not being allowed to be a human bowling ball at times it changes things somewhat. He'd still have been really good though. Its more his off rebounding that takes a hit.

[Heej]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

[70sFan]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

Not on defense.

[Heej]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

Not on defense.

That's why I said for his size. Wilt was in better shape than Shaq. Also the game back then didn't really require them to venture as far out from the paint as it did 30-40 years later. I'm fairly confident that if Shaq stayed in the svelte 300-320 range Wilt was at instead of a chunky 350 he would've been fine on defense

[70sFan]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

Not on defense.

That's why I said for his size. Wilt was in better shape than Shaq. Also the game back then didn't really require them to venture as far out from the paint as it did 30-40 years later. I'm fairly confident that if Shaq stayed in the svelte 300-320 range Wilt was at instead of a chunky 350 he would've been fine on defense

Shaq wasn't fine on defense in Orlando either and I don't think 1990s basketball required much more mobility than 1960s basketball.

[migya]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

Not really. Chamberlain was a great athlete, track and field participant at pretty high level also.

[Heej]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

Not really. Chamberlain was a great athlete, track and field participant at pretty high level also.

Yes really lol. Wilt was very strong and fast however his hips were pretty stiff. Shaq displays way more mobility and fluidity in his movement patterns even tho Wilt was a more skilled player. There are multiple aspects to athleticism lol. LeBron is way more athletic and explosive than Magic but I 1000% give Magic the edge in fluidity and coordination and body control.

[countryboy667]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

This just shouts to me that you know very little about Wilt. Wilt was a incredible all-around athlete. With all due respect to Shaq, he never was near Wilt's class as an athlete in any respect other than maybe strength--and even that's not the slam dunk some might assume.

[migya]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

This just shouts to me that you know very little about Wilt. Wilt was a incredible all-around athlete. With all due respect to Shaq, he never was near Wilt's class as an athlete in any respect other than maybe strength--and even that's not the slam dunk some might assume.

Yea, he probably hasn't seen much of Chamberlain.

[D.Brasco]

Not on defense.

That's why I said for his size. Wilt was in better shape than Shaq. Also the game back then didn't really require them to venture as far out from the paint as it did 30-40 years later. I'm fairly confident that if Shaq stayed in the svelte 300-320 range Wilt was at instead of a chunky 350 he would've been fine on defense

Shaq wasn't fine on defense in Orlando either and I don't think 1990s basketball required much more mobility than 1960s basketball.

He was a great shot blocker in his Orlando days, of course defense goes beyond just blocked shots.

[70sFan]

That's why I said for his size. Wilt was in better shape than Shaq. Also the game back then didn't really require them to venture as far out from the paint as it did 30-40 years later. I'm fairly confident that if Shaq stayed in the svelte 300-320 range Wilt was at instead of a chunky 350 he would've been fine on defense

Shaq wasn't fine on defense in Orlando either and I don't think 1990s basketball required much more mobility than 1960s basketball.

He was a great shot blocker in his Orlando days, of course defense goes beyond just blocked shots.

Yes, I'm not really impressed with Orlando Shaq defense. He either was too lazy and didn't try or he gambled on blocks too much. He was also poor P&R defender even when he was lighter.

Shaq had horrible fundamentals on defense even at his best and he was notably worse in Orlando.

[Heej]

Shaq was way more nimble for his size than Wilt was, and had better deceleration. He'd be fine in any era.

This just shouts to me that you know very little about Wilt. Wilt was a incredible all-around athlete. With all due respect to Shaq, he never was near Wilt's class as an athlete in any respect other than maybe strength--and even that's not the slam dunk some might assume.

Yea, he probably hasn't seen much of Chamberlain.

I've watched plenty of videos of Wilt lol. Doesn't 70sFan literally run WiltChamberlainArchive? Don't try to accuse me of ignorance just because I'm stating something that goes against your biases. Wilt was an incredible athlete. Arguably the most athletic big man ever. That doesn't mean he has to be the most athletic big man in every single athletic trait or quality that has ever existed lmao. That's foolish. If you watch Wilt film and don't see there's a noticeable difference in how stiff hipped and heavy footed he is compared to Shaq that's your problem not mine. Iirc Ben Taylor described him as "a bit of a plodder" lmao.

[70sFan]

I've watched plenty of videos of Wilt lol. Doesn't 70sFan literally run WiltChamberlainArchive?

I don't, I have my own channel. I help WCA finding new footage from older eras though.

Iirc Ben Taylor described him as "a bit of a plodder" lmao.

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen Ben doing any positive work about Wilt. He always tries to prove he's not as good as some think, forgetting there are some people who believe that he was much worse than he actually was.

[falcolombardi]

I've watched plenty of videos of Wilt lol. Doesn't 70sFan literally run WiltChamberlainArchive?

I don't, I have my own channel. I help WCA finding new footage from older eras though.

Iirc Ben Taylor described him as "a bit of a plodder" lmao.

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen Ben doing any positive work about Wilt. He always tries to prove he's not as good as some think, forgetting there are some people who believe that he was much worse than he actually was.

i like ben as his work was what got me into analizing basketball more in depth, but i would have to agree here

once you look for it, you realize how much ben throws subtle or not so subtle shots at wilt

i realized it when i compared his wilt and russel articles, he mentions their high minutes and how they often didmt leave the paint against midrange shooters. but the angle was wildly different

wilt: "yes, he played an absurd amount of minutes but only because he saved energy not moving at all om offense (questionable) so it is actuslly unimpressive, he also was lazy against outside shooters at times"

russel: "yes, he sometimes didnt leave the paint against shooters but it was a tactical decision as je needed to save energy playing a imptessive amount of minutes"

and there are a ton of examples like that

[Heej]

Lol yea Ben is definitely biased towards certain players. My point is that just because I think Wilt was less nimble than Shaq isn't grounds for people to just get butthurt and go "you don't know anything about Wilt" lmao. There's plenty of other things that make him impressive as an athlete. In my personal opinion 48.5mpg is the one record that is truly and unequivocally unbreakable. All the others are at least theoretically possible. Unless we get cyborgs in the NBA no one's ever gonna play that many minutes ever anymore. It's done.

Agree with OP tho about offensive foul rules. Shaq had a real mean streak too. But he'd adjust and be a beast as always

[migya]

Lol yea Ben is definitely biased towards certain players. My point is that just because I think Wilt was less nimble than Shaq isn't grounds for people to just get butthurt and go "you don't know anything about Wilt" lmao. There's plenty of other things that make him impressive as an athlete. In my personal opinion 48.5mpg is the one record that is truly and unequivocally unbreakable. All the others are at least theoretically possible. Unless we get cyborgs in the NBA no one's ever gonna play that many minutes ever anymore. It's done.

Agree with OP tho about offensive foul rules. Shaq had a real mean streak too. But he'd adjust and be a beast as always

My response was to you saying that Chamberlain want really nimble, which he was and that can be seen from footage of him.

You have to admit that most of Shaq's game involved him barging into other players. Noone else did that and those who did now and then were called for offensive fouls. Chamberlain, with his immense strength and athleticism, if he was allowed to use contact like that would've been even more unstoppable.

[Heej]

Lol yea Ben is definitely biased towards certain players. My point is that just because I think Wilt was less nimble than Shaq isn't grounds for people to just get butthurt and go "you don't know anything about Wilt" lmao. There's plenty of other things that make him impressive as an athlete. In my personal opinion 48.5mpg is the one record that is truly and unequivocally unbreakable. All the others are at least theoretically possible. Unless we get cyborgs in the NBA no one's ever gonna play that many minutes ever anymore. It's done.

Agree with OP tho about offensive foul rules. Shaq had a real mean streak too. But he'd adjust and be a beast as always

My response was to you saying that Chamberlain want really nimble, which he was and that can be seen from footage of him.

You have to admit that most of Shaq's game involved him barging into other players. Noone else did that and those who did now and then were called for offensive fouls. Chamberlain, with his immense strength and athleticism, if he was allowed to use contact like that would've been even more unstoppable.

I think he was very explosive. He could get off the ground QUICK. I simply just don't think he was all that fluid. It's clear as day to me. Watch the set of clips from 1:37 on when Wilt is running the break

https://youtu.be/qfczQovODz8

Vs this set of clips from 2:50 on when Shaq is running it

https://youtu.be/2I5q-IEh7Kg

Shaq is simply the more fluid athlete and his movement patterns are way less lumbering overall. Sure there's some clips where he lurches more than others but Wilt looks even more stiff in some of these. I think it's painfully obvious when you watch the 2 who moved and decelerated more effortlessly. Wilt was crazy explosive tho but let's not act like Shaq didn't have his own edge physically that would've served him greatly in any era. There's never been a big man with his combination of size, power, and grace. Shaq would kill any era regardless of the rules.

[migya]

Lol yea Ben is definitely biased towards certain players. My point is that just because I think Wilt was less nimble than Shaq isn't grounds for people to just get butthurt and go "you don't know anything about Wilt" lmao. There's plenty of other things that make him impressive as an athlete. In my personal opinion 48.5mpg is the one record that is truly and unequivocally unbreakable. All the others are at least theoretically possible. Unless we get cyborgs in the NBA no one's ever gonna play that many minutes ever anymore. It's done.

Agree with OP tho about offensive foul rules. Shaq had a real mean streak too. But he'd adjust and be a beast as always

My response was to you saying that Chamberlain want really nimble, which he was and that can be seen from footage of him.

You have to admit that most of Shaq's game involved him barging into other players. Noone else did that and those who did now and then were called for offensive fouls. Chamberlain, with his immense strength and athleticism, if he was allowed to use contact like that would've been even more unstoppable.

I think he was very explosive. He could get off the ground QUICK. I simply just don't think he was all that fluid. It's clear as day to me. Watch the set of clips from 1:37 on when Wilt is running the break

https://youtu.be/qfczQovODz8

Vs this set of clips from 2:50 on when Shaq is running it

https://youtu.be/2I5q-IEh7Kg

Shaq is simply the more fluid athlete and his movement patterns are way less lumbering overall. Sure there's some clips where he lurches more than others but Wilt looks even more stiff in some of these. I think it's painfully obvious when you watch the 2 who moved and decelerated more effortlessly. Wilt was crazy explosive tho but let's not act like Shaq didn't have his own edge physically that would've served him greatly in any era. There's never been a big man with his combination of size, power, and grace. Shaq would kill any era regardless of the rules.

That shows how quick, fast and agile Chamberlain was. Shaq practiced dribbling and more modern moves, which is why he dribbled the ball as he did. You couldn't carry the ball at all in the 60s and even the guards looked quite clumsy or underdeveloped with the dribble.

Chamberlain shooting fadeaways like Olajuwon and Robinson shows how ahead of his time he was. Unguardable.

[70sFan]

I think Shaq might be a bit quicker with his moves overall, at least on offensive end. Some of that was caused by different rules and footwear, but you can give Shaq the edge.

The gap certainly isn't huge though, as we watch Wilt and Shaq without the ball they moved quite similar (with Wilt having a better motor and being faster).