Where did Kobe rank each year from 2001-2013

[Blazers-1977]

This is what I would say imo:

2001: 5th behind Shaq, Duncan, Iverson, Garnett
2002: 6th behind Duncan Shaq Kidd McGrady Webber
2003: 4th behind Duncan Garnett McGrady
2004: 6th behind Garnett Duncan Shaq Ben Wallace Jermaine
2005: Not even top 10(this was his worst season for him in this period by far)
2006: 1st
2007: 3 way tie for first with Nash and Duncan
2008: 1st
2009: 3rd behind LeBron and Wade
2010: 2nd behind LeBron
2011: 7th behind Dirk , Howard, Rose, Wade, LeBron, Durant
2012: 4th behind LeBron, Durant, Paul
2013: 3rd behind LeBron and Durant

[Jaivl]

Okay, let's go

2001: 4th (Shaq, Duncan, Garnett) - a 2020 Davis-like situation where he got hella hot and punched above his weight
2002: 5th (Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, McGrady)
2003: 3th - 5th (Duncan and Garnett, joint with Shaq and McGrady)
2004: 4th (Garnett, Duncan, Shaq) - extremely weak year, inverse situation to 2001
2005: 11th
2006: 1st
2007: 3th - 4th (Nash, Duncan, joint with Dirk)
2008: 1st - 2nd (joint with Garnett)
2009: 3rd (LeBron, Wade)
2010: 3rd - 4th (LeBron, Wade, joint with Dirk)
2011: 5th (Dirk, LeBron, Wade, Howard)
2012: 7th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Westbrook)
2013: N/A (would probably be 6th after LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry and Westbrook if healthy?)

[Heat4lyf]

2001: 2nd behind Shaq
2002: 3rd behind Duncan Shaq
2003: 3rd behind Duncan Garnett
2004: 4th behind Garnett Duncan Shaq
2005: 6th - Duncan, garnett , Wade, shaq , nash
2006: 2nd behind wade
2007: 1st
2008: 1st
2009: 3rd behind LeBron and Wade
2010: 1st
2011: 8th behind Dirk , Howard, Rose, Wade, LeBron, Durant, Chris paul
2012: 6th behind LeBron, Durant, Paul,Wade , durant
2013: 3rd behind LeBron and Durant

[70sFan]

Something like this:

2001: 3rd (Shaq, Duncan)
2002: 5th (Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, McGrady)
2003: 4th or 5th (Duncan, Garnett, Shaq - fighting with McGrady for that spot)
2004: 4th (Garnett, Duncan, Shaq)
2005: outside top 10 probably
2006: 2nd (Wade)
2007: 4th (Duncan, Nash, Dirk)
2008: 1st or 2nd (fighting with Garnett)
2009: 3rd (LeBron, Wade)
2010: 3rd (LeBron, Wade)
2011: 5th (Dirk, LeBron, Wade, Howard)
2012: 8th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Duncan, Westbrook)
2013: 6th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry, Duncan)

[Matt15]

2001-3rd behind Shaq and Duncan
2002-3rd behind Shaq and Duncan
2003-3rd behind Duncan and KG
2004-3rd behind Duncan and KG
2005-Outside the top 5
2006-Best player
2007-Best player
2008-Best player
2009-2nd behind Lebron James
2010-2nd behind Lebron James
2011-5th behind Lebron Wade Dirk Dwight
2012-4th behind Lebron, Durant, Paul
2013-Outside Top 5

[Matt15]

2001-3rd behind Shaq and Duncan
2002-3rd behind Shaq and Duncan
2003-3rd behind Duncan and KG
2004-3rd behind Duncan and KG
2005-Outside the top 5
2006-Best player
2007-Best player
2008-Best player
2009-2nd behind Lebron James
2010-2nd behind Lebron James
2011-5th behind Lebron Wade Dirk Dwight
2012-4th behind Lebron, Durant, Paul
2013-Outside Top 5

[LAL1947]

I cannot understand how some are saying Steve Nash was a better player than Kobe in 2005-06 or 2006-07... WHILE simultaneously saying that Tim Duncan was better than Allen Iverson in 2000-01. That seems quite disingenuous, yes?

[70sFan]

I cannot understand how some are saying Steve Nash was a better player than Kobe in 2005-06 or 2006-07... WHILE simultaneously saying that Tim Duncan was better than Allen Iverson in 2000-01. That seems quite disingenuous, yes?

I fail to see how these opinions can be connected that way...

[LAL1947]

I cannot understand how some are saying Steve Nash was a better player than Kobe in 2005-06 or 2006-07... WHILE simultaneously saying that Tim Duncan was better than Allen Iverson in 2000-01. That seems quite disingenuous, yes?

I fail to see how these opinions can be connected that way...

It probably explains why you did something like that. Steve Nash was never a better player than Kobe. You can argue that Nash was more deserving of being MVP... just like AI was more deserving of MVP (which is the connection)... but he was never, ever the better player.

There are also years when you give Duncan the edge even when others have performed better than him (like 2006-07, when Duncan was no longer in the picture for Top 3 in the league, having become slow and having transitioned to being more of a defensive player)... yet you ALWAYS give the others the edge when they performed better than Kobe in a season (like with T-Mac or Wade).

[70sFan]

I cannot understand how some are saying Steve Nash was a better player than Kobe in 2005-06 or 2006-07... WHILE simultaneously saying that Tim Duncan was better than Allen Iverson in 2000-01. That seems quite disingenuous, yes?

I fail to see how these opinions can be connected that way...

This probably explains why you did something like that. Steve Nash was never a better player than Kobe. You can argue that he was more deserving of MVP... just like AI was more deserving of MVP (which is the connection)... but he was never the better player. There are also years when you give Duncan the edge when others have performed better than him (like 2006-07, when Duncan was no longer in the picture for Top 3 in the league having become slow and having transitioned to being more of a defensive player)... yet you ALWAYS give the others the edge when they performed better than Kobe in a season (like with T-Mac).

I see that now, but I just disagree with your conclusions.

1. I don't agree that Iverson was more deserving the MVP in 2001 than Duncan. In fact, I see Iverson's case as extremely weak - mostly related to him playing in much worse conference and people underrating Sixers defense.

2. I think Nash has a very reasonable case over Kobe for MVP in 2006, but I still have Kobe ahead.

3. I don't see anyone playing better than Duncan throughout the 2007 season. You may disagree, but to me he was quite clearly the best player in the league that year. Kobe had down year compared to 2006, Nash wasn't as good in RS. Only Dirk to me has a case in RS, but he wasn't good in the playoffs, while Duncan upped his level of play. I have Nash ahead of Kobe in 2007 mostly because of postseason.

4. I have McGrady ahead of Kobe literally once - in 2002 and to be honest, I'm not that comfortable even with that. 2002/03 for Kobe vs Tmac is close and personally, I prefer Kobe in that period. Tracy isn't even close to Bryant in any other season (except for 2005 which is by far the worst season in Kobe's prime).

[Stalwart]

Kobe as good as anyone in the league from 01-05 although he was never the undisputed best during this period. From 06-10 however he was the undisputed best player. Wade & Lebron were comparable in 09-10 but it was Kobe hoisting the trophy at the end of the day while Lebron kept dropping playoff series he was supposed to win.

People are seeing Kobe's numbers dip in 09 and 10 and think Wade and Lebron were better. They're not considering that Kobe was focused on maximizing his team those years and not his numbers. He was also coasting a bit in the RS as he was getting older.

[HeartBreakKid]

I cannot understand how some are saying Steve Nash was a better player than Kobe in 2005-06 or 2006-07... WHILE simultaneously saying that Tim Duncan was better than Allen Iverson in 2000-01. That seems quite disingenuous, yes?

I fail to see how these opinions can be connected that way...

It probably explains why you did something like that. Steve Nash was never a better player than Kobe. You can argue that Nash was more deserving of being MVP... just like AI was more deserving of MVP (which is the connection)... but he was never, ever the better player.

There are also years when you give Duncan the edge even when others have performed better than him (like 2006-07, when Duncan was no longer in the picture for Top 3 in the league, having become slow and having transitioned to being more of a defensive player)... yet you ALWAYS give the others the edge when they performed better than Kobe in a season (like with T-Mac or Wade).

I mean that's just a narrative you created, not an actual contradiction.

You can definitely argue Steve Nash was a "better player" than Kobe Bryant. Steve Nash was commonly called the best offensive player in the NBA and Kobe Bryant during those years were predominately an offensive player. If someone thinks Nash was the best offensive player in the league (not an uncommon opinion unless one is living in an LA bubble or under a rock) then it would be plenty feasible to think Nash was better than Bryant in 2007.

Given you're not going to agree, you can just say Steve Nash is a substantially better player than Allen Iverson instead.

Steve Nash does have arguments over Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson has almost no argument over Tim Duncan outside of people who just look at PPG and highlights (and most of those people don't follow basketball closely and barely remember Iverson/Duncan by now).

Iverson and Nash are not the same caliber of player - there isn't a contradiction. Nash did not even win an MVP in 2007 so how is it analogous to Iverson?. You did not mention 2005 either, which is when Nash won his first MVP and was indeed, almost universally considered a better player than Kobe Bryant that year.

[Stalwart]

I fail to see how these opinions can be connected that way...

It probably explains why you did something like that. Steve Nash was never a better player than Kobe. You can argue that Nash was more deserving of being MVP... just like AI was more deserving of MVP (which is the connection)... but he was never, ever the better player.

There are also years when you give Duncan the edge even when others have performed better than him (like 2006-07, when Duncan was no longer in the picture for Top 3 in the league, having become slow and having transitioned to being more of a defensive player)... yet you ALWAYS give the others the edge when they performed better than Kobe in a season (like with T-Mac or Wade).

I mean that's just a narrative you created, not an actual contradiction.

You can definitely argue Steve Nash was a "better player" than Kobe Bryant. Steve Nash was commonly called the best offensive player in the NBA and Kobe Bryant during those years were predominately an offensive player. If someone thinks Nash was the best offensive player in the league (not an uncommon opinion unless one is living in an LA bubble or under a rock) then it would be plenty feasible to think Nash was better than Bryant in 2007.

Given you're not going to agree, you can just say Steve Nash is a substantially better player than Allen Iverson instead.

Steve Nash does have arguments over Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson has almost no argument over Tim Duncan. Iverson and Nash are not the same caliber of player - there isn't a contradiction. Nash did not even win an MVP in 2007 so how is it analogous to Iverson?. You did not mention 2005 either, which is when Nash won his first MVP and was indeed, almost universally considered a better player than Kobe Bryant that year.

2001 AI has as much of a case over 01 Duncan as 06 Nash has over 06 Kobe. The way you guys casually throw around the phrase "has a case" when comparing players to Kobe is not consistent with how you compare other players. Kobe had a historical year in 06 and close to unanimously regarded as the best. I say "close to" as you can always find contrarians or pockets of people going against the consensus.

[70sFan]

It probably explains why you did something like that. Steve Nash was never a better player than Kobe. You can argue that Nash was more deserving of being MVP... just like AI was more deserving of MVP (which is the connection)... but he was never, ever the better player.

There are also years when you give Duncan the edge even when others have performed better than him (like 2006-07, when Duncan was no longer in the picture for Top 3 in the league, having become slow and having transitioned to being more of a defensive player)... yet you ALWAYS give the others the edge when they performed better than Kobe in a season (like with T-Mac or Wade).

I mean that's just a narrative you created, not an actual contradiction.

You can definitely argue Steve Nash was a "better player" than Kobe Bryant. Steve Nash was commonly called the best offensive player in the NBA and Kobe Bryant during those years were predominately an offensive player. If someone thinks Nash was the best offensive player in the league (not an uncommon opinion unless one is living in an LA bubble or under a rock) then it would be plenty feasible to think Nash was better than Bryant in 2007.

Given you're not going to agree, you can just say Steve Nash is a substantially better player than Allen Iverson instead.

Steve Nash does have arguments over Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson has almost no argument over Tim Duncan. Iverson and Nash are not the same caliber of player - there isn't a contradiction. Nash did not even win an MVP in 2007 so how is it analogous to Iverson?. You did not mention 2005 either, which is when Nash won his first MVP and was indeed, almost universally considered a better player than Kobe Bryant that year.

2001 AI has as much of a case over 01 Duncan as 06 Nash has over 06 Kobe. The way you guys casually throw around the phrase "has a case" when comparing players to Kobe is not consistent with how you compare other players. Kobe had a historical year in 06 and close to unanimously regarded as the best. I say "close to" as you can always find contrarians or pockets of people going against the consensus.

What consensus? Kobe wasn't seen as clearly the best player in the league.

[Stalwart]

I mean that's just a narrative you created, not an actual contradiction.

You can definitely argue Steve Nash was a "better player" than Kobe Bryant. Steve Nash was commonly called the best offensive player in the NBA and Kobe Bryant during those years were predominately an offensive player. If someone thinks Nash was the best offensive player in the league (not an uncommon opinion unless one is living in an LA bubble or under a rock) then it would be plenty feasible to think Nash was better than Bryant in 2007.

Given you're not going to agree, you can just say Steve Nash is a substantially better player than Allen Iverson instead.

Steve Nash does have arguments over Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson has almost no argument over Tim Duncan. Iverson and Nash are not the same caliber of player - there isn't a contradiction. Nash did not even win an MVP in 2007 so how is it analogous to Iverson?. You did not mention 2005 either, which is when Nash won his first MVP and was indeed, almost universally considered a better player than Kobe Bryant that year.

2001 AI has as much of a case over 01 Duncan as 06 Nash has over 06 Kobe. The way you guys casually throw around the phrase "has a case" when comparing players to Kobe is not consistent with how you compare other players. Kobe had a historical year in 06 and close to unanimously regarded as the best. I say "close to" as you can always find contrarians or pockets of people going against the consensus.

What consensus? Kobe wasn't seen as clearly the best player in the league.

Again, you can always find contrarians and pockets of people pushing different opinions.

There was a sizable block of people arguing that Wade was better than Lebron back in 2011. Blocks of people were arguing for KD, Steph, and Kawhi at different points from 2012 through 2018. I guess Lebron was never seen as the best in the league either. Neither was Shaq or Tim Duncan btw.

[LAL1947]

If someone thinks Nash was the best offensive player in the league (not an uncommon opinion unless one is living in an LA bubble or under a rock) then it would be plenty feasible to think Nash was better than Bryant in 2007.

Kobe had a historical year in 06 and close to unanimously regarded as the best. I say "close to" as you can always find contrarians or pockets of people going against the consensus.

What consensus? Kobe wasn't seen as clearly the best player in the league.

Maybe here on RealGM. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league among his peers. Give the man his just due instead of making little cases here and there.

[70sFan]

Again, you can always find contrarians and pockets of people pushing different opinions.

There was a sizable block of people arguing that Wade was better than Lebron back in 2011. Blocks of people were arguing for KD, Steph, and Kawhi at different points from 2012 through 2018. I guess Lebron was never seen as the best in the league either.

Maybe here on RealGM. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league among his peers.

I wasn't active on RealGM back then, so I can't say about the consensus here. That said, can any of you show me any kind of solid evidence that Kobe was described as the best player in the world in 2006? I am not asking about random quotes from 5+ years after, I want to see how people felt about Kobe vs other stars after the end of the season.

You always say it's obvious that Kobe was seen as the best. If so, find compelling arguments for it. It shouldn't be hard.

[HeartBreakKid]

Kobe had a historical year in 06 and close to unanimously regarded as the best. I say "close to" as you can always find contrarians or pockets of people going against the consensus.

What consensus? Kobe wasn't seen as clearly the best player in the league.

Maybe here on RealGM. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league among his peers. Give the man his just due instead of making little cases here and there.

My account is not from 06...people certainly thought Nash was better than Bryant back then. Especially 2005, were you even watching basketball that year?


Many of Larry Bird's peers thought he wasn't that good and was overrated because he was white. Why are you mentioning peers like they're not bias in anyway? Yes, many players in the NBA thought Bryant was better than Nash - many players in the NBA would be terrible GMs also. Not a great point.


No one is making a little case, you're probably from some random part in LA and are in a bubble. Plenty of people thought Nash was the best offensive player in the NBA in both basketball and non-basketball circles. If you don't know that then that's a knowledge gap you have, not some "made up thing". I've heard in many places that Steve Nash was the best offensive player in the NBA before I knew what RealGM even was, why would someone "make that up" - just the fact that it is not made up and you refuse to believe it says a lot about you then.

And saying stuff like "only on Realgm" aka only on a BASKETBALL WEBSITE like that is meaningless, you post on realgm just in case you do not know. Stop being deflective and acknowledge that there are opinions that go outside of your own.


Again, there is no contradiction - you've had it explained to you how it's not a contradiction. You're just not accepting it and now making it some argument about how "no one" thought Kobe Bryant was worse than Steve Nash, which isn't true. I mean literally just one person would have to tell you that isn't true for that to not be true, and you've been told and are still denying it.

Trying to pretend like there is mass bias against Kobe Bryant but not Tim Duncan is insanely tone deaf. Kobe Bryant is substantially more popular than Tim Duncan and would benefit more from bias, and some of your posts like (ask his peers or citing random videos from 22 year old LBJ) would even support that. Kobe Bryant benefits from bias more than other players do, you're a big fan so you only tunnel vision on negatives about Bryant.


There isn't a conspiracy against Kobe Bryant. Some people did not buy into the hype that he is Jordan 2.0. You need to learn to accept that that's a thing that isn't fueled by hatred (why would someone even hate Kobe Bryant in 2022?).

[Stalwart]

Again, you can always find contrarians and pockets of people pushing different opinions.

There was a sizable block of people arguing that Wade was better than Lebron back in 2011. Blocks of people were arguing for KD, Steph, and Kawhi at different points from 2012 through 2018. I guess Lebron was never seen as the best in the league either.

Maybe here on RealGM. Kobe was the consensus best player in the league among his peers.

I wasn't active on RealGM back then, so I can't say about the consensus here. That said, can any of you show me any kind of solid evidence that Kobe was described as the best player in the world in 2006? I am not asking about random quotes from 5+ years after, I want to see how people felt about Kobe vs other stars after the end of the season.

You always say it's obvious that Kobe was seen as the best. If so, find compelling arguments for it. It shouldn't be hard.

Well there was no big ESPN specials calling Kobe the best if thats what you're looking for. But here is Steve Nash's coach from 2006:

"I'm notsaying that he's the most valuable player, but he's certainly the bestplayer," says Phoenix Suns coach Mike D'Antoni. "And it's not evenclose. He is utterly dominant."

Isn't this what we've been saying? Kobe wasn't necessarily the MVP that year but he was the best and it wasn't even close. Steve Nashi's own coach said this lol.

[LAL1947]

My account is not from 06...people certainly thought Nash was better than Bryant back then. Especially 2005, were you even watching basketball that year?

Again, there is no contradiction - you've had it explained to you how it's not a contradiction. You're just not accepting it and now making it some argument about how "no one" thought Kobe Bryant was worse than Steve Nash, which isn't true.

Your whole post (it was long, so I only quoted these two bits from it) has been invalidated by the quote Stalwart posted below.

If even Nash's own coach was saying in 2005-06 that Kobe was better... and you are saying the opposite... would you like to rethink that bit where you ask me if I was watching basketball that year?

Cheers.

Source: Sports Illustrated

"I'm not saying that he's (Kobe) the most valuable player, but he's certainly the best player," says Phoenix Suns coach Mike D'Antoni. "And it's not even close. He is utterly dominant."

I also like this quote from the same article... think it quite accurately reflects how Kobe played in 2005-06. He looked beleaguered with all of the drama from all sides... and no longer the good-natured kid from 2000-01 who played with carefree abandon. Frobe was my favorite version of Kobe.

"It's like he's paying everybody back," says Portland Trail Blazers guard, Sebastian Telfair. "It's like he's thinking, the best way for me to get my image back is to go out there and kill everybody. He wants to, like, murder you."