Where do you rank Russell Westbrook each year from '12-'17?

ardee · Post #1 » by **ardee** » Mon May 16, 2022 7:15 am

I think that is definitely his prime. He's had his moments after that, but those were the years he was most relevant in the league, with an absolute peak in 2016 and 2017.

I would go:

2012: 5th (behind LeBron, Durant, CP3 and KG, who had a really amazing renaissance and was wonderful on both ends in the Playoffs)
2013: 6th (behind LeBron, Durant, CP3, Curry and Duncan)
2014: 5th (behind LeBron, Durant, CP3 and Curry)
2015: 6th (behind CP3, Curry, Davis, LeBron and Harden. Loaded year)
2016: 3rd (Behind LeBron and Curry)
2017: 4th (Behind LeBron, Curry and Kawhi. Could maybe argue 3rd if you knock Kawhi for the injury).

I think it's an accurate reflection that this is someone who was on average a top 5 player for a 6 year stretch and peaked at top 3 for a couple of years.

Thoughts?

Jaivl · Post #2 » by **Jaivl** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 am

2012: 6th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade)
2013: 5th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry)
2014: 5th - 6th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry, joint with Griffin)
2015: 4th (Paul, Curry, LeBron)
2016: 5th (LeBron, Curry, Durant, Leonard) <- his peak
2017: 5th (Curry, LeBron, Durant, Paul)

ardee · Post #3 » by **ardee** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:06 am

Jaivl wrote:2012: 6th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade)
2013: 5th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry)
2014: 5th - 6th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry, joint with Griffin)
2015: 4th (Paul, Curry, LeBron)
2016: 5th (LeBron, Curry, Durant, Leonard) <- his peak
2017: 5th (Curry, LeBron, Durant, Paul)

What is your argument for Durant over him in 16 and 17?

Don't you think, especially in 2016, it was kinda clear that Westbrook was more of the driving force behind how good that team was?

Jaivl · Post #4 » by **Jaivl** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:10 am

ardee wrote:
Jaivl wrote:2012: 6th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade)
2013: 5th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry)
2014: 5th - 6th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry, joint with Griffin)
2015: 4th (Paul, Curry, LeBron)
2016: 5th (LeBron, Curry, Durant, Leonard) <- his peak
2017: 5th (Curry, LeBron, Durant, Paul)

What is your argument for Durant over him in 16 and 17?

Don't you think, especially in 2016, it was kinda clear that Westbrook was more of the driving force behind how good that team was?

The argument for 2017 is honestly trivial.

As for 2016, yeah I'd agree Westbrook was the main force of the offense and the better player in the playoffs. Still think Durant is the slightly better player in a vacuum.

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:10 am

You are way higher on Westbrook than me:

2012: 7th (James, Durant, Paul, Garnett, Wade, Dirk)
2013: 8th (James, Durant, Paul, Curry, Duncan, Kobe, Wade)
2014: outside top 10
2015: 6th (Curry, James, Paul, Harden, Davis)
2016: 6th (James, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Green)
2017: 5th to 8th (James, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, with a case for Green, Harden and Davis)
2018-22: outside of top 10

ardee · Post #6 » by **ardee** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:12 am

Jaivl wrote:
ardee wrote:
Jaivl wrote:2012: 6th (LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dirk, Wade)
2013: 5th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry)
2014: 5th - 6th (LeBron, Durant, Paul, Curry, joint with Griffin)
2015: 4th (Paul, Curry, LeBron)
2016: 5th (LeBron, Curry, Durant, Leonard) <- his peak
2017: 5th (Curry, LeBron, Durant, Paul)

What is your argument for Durant over him in 16 and 17?

Don't you think, especially in 2016, it was kinda clear that Westbrook was more of the driving force behind how good that team was?

The argument for 2017 is honestly trivial.

As for 2016, yeah I'd agree Westbrook was the main force of the offense and the better player in the playoffs. Still think Durant is the slightly better player in a vacuum.

Trivial in that you think it's so close it's a toss up or that it's too big to even justify arguing?

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:13 am

ardee wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
ardee wrote:
What is your argument for Durant over him in 16 and 17?

Don't you think, especially in 2016, it was kinda clear that Westbrook was more of the driving force behind how good that team was?

The argument for 2017 is honestly trivial.

As for 2016, yeah I'd agree Westbrook was the main force of the offense and the better player in the playoffs. Still think Durant is the slightly better player in a vacuum.

Trivial in that you think it's so close it's a toss up or that it's too big to even justify arguing?

Neither. Trivial as I don't think it's particularly strange to have Durant ahead, and the case kinda makes itself (efficiency, defense, how much Westbrook's supernova primacy and numbers are actually worth, yadda yadda yadda).

GSP · Post #8 » by **GSP** » Mon May 16, 2022 8:56 am

12 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Wade, Dirk, Kg, Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Love
13 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Steph, Pg13, Timmy, Harden, Kobe
14 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Steph, Pg13, Blake, Love, Harden, Dirk
15 - Bron, Steph, Cp3, Harden, Ad
16 - Bron, Kd, Steph, Kawhi, Draymond
17 - Bron, Kd, Steph, Kawhi, Cp3, Harden, Ad, Jimmy

I don't see what makes 12-14 Russ that much better than 18-20 (post Capela trade) Russ if at all except a lot worse playoff performances and getting upset embarrassingly b2b despite having Pg13. Seems like a convenient cutoff

ardee · Post #9 » by **ardee** » Mon May 16, 2022 9:03 am

GSP wrote:12 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Wade, Dirk, Kg, Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Love
13 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Steph, Pg13, Timmy, Harden, Kobe
14 - Bron, Kd, Cp3, Steph, Pg13, Blake, Love, Harden, Dirk
15 - Bron, Steph, Cp3, Harden, Ad
16 - Bron, Kd, Steph, Kawhi, Draymond
17 - Bron, Kd, Steph, Kawhi, Cp3, Harden, Ad, Jimmy

I don't see what makes 12-14 Russ that much better than 18-20 (post Capela trade) Russ if at all except a lot worse playoff performances and getting upset embarrassingly b2b despite having Pg13. Seems like a convenient cutoff

How many of those players in 2017 particularly do you think produce better results with the Thunder roster that year?