RealGM

I didn't even think it was a question that Bird is a top 10 player ATM.

Albeit because he has the shortest prime of any top 10 player, still his prime 3 MVPs in a row DURING Magics prime.
(Not sure I understand this, given that they were almost identical in impact/skill/ability)

Bird can also be argued as the clutchest player of all time.

Right I go back and fourth between Bird and Hakeem for the 9th and 10th spot. But I think there is a small but clear margin between him Kobe/Oscar at 11th and 12th so even at the tail end of the top 10, still really comfortable.

If Curry wins a ring and finals MVP, he still has another chip to get to given that Magic has been to 8 and won 5.

Curry has a good while to go IMO to catch Magic as the greatest PG of all time, and is somewhere in the 6-8 range in my top 10.

Agreed. Bird is one of the greatest ever and definitely top ten. Curry dies have a way to go before even considered fit top ten or top 3PG.

Lock top 10. 100%. I'd even put him possibly around 5th, because peak is much more important than counting stats and "longevity".

I am a bit lower than everyone above me posting. I view him as a mortal, a short-ish prime and specifically shorter "peak". I have him at #14 behind someone like Dirk Nowitzki and Oscar Robertson. I can't see him much lower than #14 but have a hard time wrapping my ahead around him being top 7 or 8.

Why do think you're "the only one?" I have him 6th.

ty 4191 wrote:Lock top 10. 100%. I'd even put him possibly around 5th, because peak is much more important than counting stats and "longevity".

Curious why you think longevity is such a fake concept as to put it into quotes?

Everyone is free to value whatever they want, but longevity is actually a real thing lol.

Not a lock. Who cares if he got MVPs over Magic Johnson? Players have gotten MVPs over other great players literally every year MVP has been awarded. That's so random, what are we supposed to do have an orgasm at the mention of Magic's name like some 80s school girls?

I don't have him as a top ten peak either.

ty 4191 wrote:Lock top 10. 100%. I'd even put him possibly around 5th, because peak is much more important than counting stats and "longevity".

not really, look at bill walton or penny hardaway, incredible peaks but less talented players had bettwr careers

winning rings requires a ton of thinghs to go right, health, rivals )the weaker the competition the more likely a player is to win and the tough they are the hardet) teammates quality, "luck" in close games, etc

lots of even goat level players miss the ring in some of their best seasons (88-90 jordan, 2009 or 2017 lebron, 74 or 77 kareem) but win them in years past their peaks (2020 lebron, 80 kareem, 98 jordan)

longevity, even longevity past your best, is really valuable to winning

you would need to have bird peak extremely high, top2-3 kind of high (which is fine but mot everyone will agree) for him to be top 5 over other incredible players with much longer primes and careers

i am not talking abour bird vs karl malone, i am talking about bird vs duncan, shaq, wilt, other rincredible peak players themselves who beat bird clearly in longevity

and there is the issue of bird post season injuries and jis early career scoring struggles in the playoffs

ESPN agrees
With you, so there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11th is where I have him. But I have him at the bottom of a tier where there's a clear drop to 12. I think there's a pretty clear top 11 with Bird, MJ, KAJ, LBJ, Shaq, Russ, Wilt, Magic, KG, Duncan, and Hakeem.

Bird makes Walton look like a normal career with his longevity.

Have him 11th as well, love him as a player but had limitations scoring the ball and on defense, as well as the aformentioned longevity issues. Could see him a few spots higher depending on how you evaluate players.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:...

Bird can also be argued as the clutchest player of all time....

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought I remembered that Bird had one of the bigger falloffs from regular season to playoff performance of the top 10. Hakeem is the one with the clutch gene. Bird strikes me as more the Kobe type . . . I'll take the shot and it might not be the best one but I'd rather live and die with my own efforts than risk trusting a teammate.

penbeast0 wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:...

Bird can also be argued as the clutchest player of all time....

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought I remembered that Bird had one of the bigger falloffs from regular season to playoff performance of the top 10. Hakeem is the one with the clutch gene. Bird strikes me as more the Kobe type . . . I'll take the shot and it might not be the best one but I'd rather live and die with my own efforts than risk trusting a teammate.

he had fairly drastic scoring falls (efficiency and sometimes volume too) in the playoffs relatively often

how much that affected his impact is up to anyone view

falcolombardi wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:...

Bird can also be argued as the clutchest player of all time....

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought I remembered that Bird had one of the bigger falloffs from regular season to playoff performance of the top 10. Hakeem is the one with the clutch gene. Bird strikes me as more the Kobe type . . . I'll take the shot and it might not be the best one but I'd rather live and die with my own efforts than risk trusting a teammate.

he had fairly drastic scoring falls (efficiency and sometimes volume too) in the playoffs relatively often

how much that affected his impact is up to anyone view

I also took note of this, there really is no evidence of Bird being more clutch than some of the more notable people. He resonates with the 'fearless' crew that revere Kobe in the same light however it's more mythical than factual.

Bird has also come up shorter than normal expectations in more series than most ATG's. I think with the right context it's easy to see why he is not exactly a lock.

On the Mount Rushmore. So yeah, top ten easy.

NbaAllDay wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought I remembered that Bird had one of the bigger falloffs from regular season to playoff performance of the top 10. Hakeem is the one with the clutch gene. Bird strikes me as more the Kobe type . . . I'll take the shot and it might not be the best one but I'd rather live and die with my own efforts than risk trusting a teammate.

he had fairly drastic scoring falls (efficiency and sometimes volume too) in the playoffs relatively often

how much that affected his impact is up to anyone view

I also took note of this, there really is no evidence of Bird being more clutch than some of the more notable people. He resonates with the 'fearless' crew that revere Kobe in the same light however it's more mythical than factual.

Bird has also come up shorter than normal expectations in more series than most ATG's. I think with the right context it's easy to see why he is not exactly a lock.

Guy who played in a brutal conference brawling (sometimes literally) his way past ruthless defenses had his numbers drop a bit sometimes.

Ok. That’s what happens in a physical league against great defenses when they target you.

SNPA wrote:

NbaAllDay wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:
he had fairly drastic scoring falls (efficiency and sometimes volume too) in the playoffs relatively often

how much that affected his impact is up to anyone view

I also took note of this, there really is no evidence of Bird being more clutch than some of the more notable people. He resonates with the 'fearless' crew that revere Kobe in the same light however it's more mythical than factual.

Bird has also come up shorter than normal expectations in more series than most ATG's. I think with the right context it's easy to see why he is not exactly a lock.

Guy who played in a brutal conference brawling (sometimes literally) his way past ruthless defenses had his numbers drop a bit sometimes.

Ok. That’s what happens in a physical league against great defenses when they target you.

nobody is comparing bird scoring/efficiency to 2020's standards, but to his own era ones were he often struggled scoring compared to other stars

being a star historically means thst the defense will focus on stopping you and probably be really physical on you, bird doesnt get to be held to a lower standard

falcolombardi wrote:

SNPA wrote:

NbaAllDay wrote:
I also took note of this, there really is no evidence of Bird being more clutch than some of the more notable people. He resonates with the 'fearless' crew that revere Kobe in the same light however it's more mythical than factual.

Bird has also come up shorter than normal expectations in more series than most ATG's. I think with the right context it's easy to see why he is not exactly a lock.

Guy who played in a brutal conference brawling (sometimes literally) his way past ruthless defenses had his numbers drop a bit sometimes.

Ok. That’s what happens in a physical league against great defenses when they target you.

nobody is comparing bird scoring/efficiency to 2020's standards, but to his own era ones were he often struggled scoring compared to other stars

being a star historically means thst the defense will focus on stopping you and probably be really physical on you, bird doesnt get to be held to a lower standard

Competition and era matter.

Statlanta wrote:Bird makes Walton look like a normal career with his longevity.

Anfernee Hardaway didn't have a productively long career either, he just hung around for a while. Bird's prime is arguably top 5.