Where would 2003 KG rank in the league today?

ardee · Post #1 » by **ardee** » Fri May 27, 2022 9:39 am

I would hazard top 3ish, was a very impressive year. Wouldn't take anyone over him for sure besides Jokic and Giannis.

Max123 · Post #2 » by **Max123** » Fri May 27, 2022 9:42 am

I wouldn't take anyone over him for sure; including Jokic and Giannis. I'd have him in a tier with those two guys probably. Imagine a peak Draymond type of defensive player in this era, maybe better, and add onto that a very very good offensive skillset.

Jaivl · Post #3 » by **Jaivl** » Fri May 27, 2022 9:44 am

Kinda funny that the two best players in the current league are sort of two optimized halves of KG.

#1 to #3 is fine, can't really put him below Curry or Embiid.

Dutchball97 · Post #4 » by **Dutchball97** » Fri May 27, 2022 10:26 am

I don't think the 03 version of KG was better than Jokic and Giannis were this year.

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Fri May 27, 2022 11:15 am

I think top 3 is a given, but I'm not sure if he's better than Giannis or Jokic. I think all three have reasonable arguments over the rest.

No-more-rings · Post #6 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri May 27, 2022 12:19 pm

Clear and easy top 3. I'd say slightly above Giannis, and roughly equal with Jokic.

Colbinii · Post #7 » by **Colbinii** » Fri May 27, 2022 12:30 pm

I would take 2003 and 2004 KG in most NBA seasons, including this one. Giannis, Jokic and healthy Curry all have arguments.

Post #8 » by **cupcakesnake** » Fri May 27, 2022 1:55 pm

I also say top 3. Clear defensive advantage over Jokic, and even Giannis. Offensively, KG was a skinny Jokic with his passing taken down a few notches and replace strength with mobility and hops. KG didn't have Giannis (or Joker's) rim pressure. Each of these players have clear advantages and disadvantages, it's kind of rock, paper, scissors.

In terms of boxscore stats and per 100 numbers, KG looks like a clear step down in terms of production and efficiency. He's the least turnover prone and basic defensive metrics like him the most. Jokic breaks a lot of statistical comparisons this season though haha. I think the Giannis vs. KG discussion comes down to how highly you think of Giannis' defense and whether your team needs rim pressure or spacing/passing.

dygaction · Post #9 » by **dygaction** » Fri May 27, 2022 3:49 pm

He would be top 4 in regular season, and top 10 in playoffs.
Giannis and KG are no longer the good comparison anymore. KG's career playoff high was 35pts. Giannis has had 8 games with 40pts or higher. I will take healthy Giannis/Luka/Steph/Jokic/Durant/Kawhi/LeBron over him without much hesitation. Jimmy Butler and AD both had more impressive playoff runs.

No-more-rings · Post #10 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri May 27, 2022 4:24 pm

dygaction wrote:He would be top 4 in regular season, and top 10 in playoffs.
Giannis and KG are no longer the good comparison anymore. KG's career playoff high was 35pts. Giannis has had 8 games with 40pts or higher. I will take healthy Giannis/Luka/Steph/Jokic/Durant/Kawhi/LeBron over him without much hesitation. Jimmy Butler and AD both had more impressive playoff runs.

Healthy Kawhi and Lebron likely don't exist anymore, and it's evident by KD's pathetic performances against Boston that he's no longer in his prime. I don't think going lower than top 3 is even reasonable. And you just loosely dropping names like old KD and Lebron make me wonder how serious you are.

dygaction · Post #11 » by **dygaction** » Fri May 27, 2022 4:42 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
dygaction wrote:He would be top 4 in regular season, and top 10 in playoffs.
Giannis and KG are no longer the good comparison anymore. KG's career playoff high was 35pts. Giannis has had 8 games with 40pts or higher. I will take healthy Giannis/Luka/Steph/Jokic/Durant/Kawhi/LeBron over him without much hesitation. Jimmy Butler and AD both had more impressive playoff runs.

Healthy Kawhi and Lebron likely don't exist anymore, and it's evident by KD's pathetic performances against Boston that he's no longer in his prime. I don't think going lower than top 3 is even reasonable. And you just loosely dropping names like old KD and Lebron make me wonder how serious you are.

Not loosely. LeBron's season was not bad. Still one of the efficient scorer and floor general, good defender if he wants to give the effort. KD had a bad series but he deserves another chance given his bulk work in the past decade. It is more that I am not that high on KG than I am high on KD or LeBron.

ceiling raiser · Post #12 » by **ceiling raiser** » Fri May 27, 2022 4:58 pm

03 KG to me was a top 10 peak all-time. However, I do kind of view Giannis as the evolutionary Garnett. Not the same player defensively, but I prefer his offense.

I'm not as high on Jokic as Garnett or Giannis, but am higher on Curry than most. I still think he was a top 2 player this year including the playoffs. So top 3 for KG with (and probably behind) Giannis and Curry, probably.

No-more-rings · Post #13 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri May 27, 2022 5:21 pm

dygaction wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
dygaction wrote:He would be top 4 in regular season, and top 10 in playoffs.
Giannis and KG are no longer the good comparison anymore. KG's career playoff high was 35pts. Giannis has had 8 games with 40pts or higher. I will take healthy Giannis/Luka/Steph/Jokic/Durant/Kawhi/LeBron over him without much hesitation. Jimmy Butler and AD both had more impressive playoff runs.

Healthy Kawhi and Lebron likely don't exist anymore, and it's evident by KD's pathetic performances against Boston that he's no longer in his prime. I don't think going lower than top 3 is even reasonable. And you just loosely dropping names like old KD and Lebron make me wonder how serious you are.

Not loosely. LeBron's season was not bad. Still one of the efficient scorer and floor general, good defender if he wants to give the effort. KD had a bad series but he deserves another chance given his bulk work in the past decade. It is more that I am not that high on KG than I am high on KD or LeBron.

I mean you can be lower on KG within reason, I don't think i should need to explain though why Lebron at age 37 and coming off just one healthy season in the last 4 is not better than peak(ish) KG.

dygaction · Post #14 » by **dygaction** » Fri May 27, 2022 5:52 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
dygaction wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:Healthy Kawhi and Lebron likely don't exist anymore, and it's evident by KD's pathetic performances against Boston that he's no longer in his prime. I don't think going lower than top 3 is even reasonable. And you just loosely dropping names like old KD and Lebron make me wonder how serious you are.

Not loosely. LeBron's season was not bad. Still one of the efficient scorer and floor general, good defender if he wants to give the effort. KD had a bad series but he deserves another chance given his bulk work in the past decade. It is more that I am not that high on KG than I am high on KD or LeBron.

I mean you can be lower on KG within reason, I don't think i should need to explain though why Lebron at age 37 and coming off just one healthy season in the last 4 is not better than peak(ish) KG.

At 35, the only healthy season, LeBron did lead the team to a championship. In 2003, KG had only won 5 playoff games with 0 playoff series after 8 years in the league. Do we just hold no playoff win as a drawback to current players or the likes of TMac, but not KG? To me, he is just not a very impactful player and cannot be your go to guy in the playoffs.

No-more-rings · Post #15 » by **No-more-rings** » Fri May 27, 2022 5:57 pm

dygaction wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Not loosely. LeBron's season was not bad. Still one of the efficient scorer and floor general, good defender if he wants to give the effort. KD had a bad series but he deserves another chance given his bulk work in the past decade. It is more that I am not that high on KG than I am high on KD or LeBron.

I mean you can be lower on KG within reason, I don't think i should need to explain though why Lebron at age 37 and coming off just one healthy season in the last 4 is not better than peak(ish) KG.

At 35, the only healthy season, LeBron did lead the team to a championship. In 2003, KG had only won 5 playoff games with 0 playoff series after 8 years in the league. Do we just hold no playoff win as a drawback to current players or the likes of TMac, but not KG?

I have no idea why you're attempting to turn this into a prime or career debate. Lebron was great in 2020 no doubt, that was 2 years ago though and 35 to 37 often makes a big difference, that Lebron is very unlikely to walk through the door even if he does manage good health next season. It may be less noticeable since it's been gradual, but Lebron has declined considerably since his peak.

70sFan · Post #16 » by **70sFan** » Fri May 27, 2022 5:58 pm

dygaction wrote: To me, he is just not a very impactful player and cannot be your go to guy in the playoffs.

Sorry, but it's laughable to have such opinion after being on this board for so long...

dygaction · Post #17 » by **dygaction** » Fri May 27, 2022 6:03 pm

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote: To me, he is just not a very impactful player and cannot be your go to guy in the playoffs.

Sorry, but it's laughable to have such opinion after being on this board for so long...

Sorry if you think this board can come to a conclusive decision and all other opinions should be ignored or laughed at.

70sFan · Post #18 » by **70sFan** » Fri May 27, 2022 6:32 pm

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote: To me, he is just not a very impactful player and cannot be your go to guy in the playoffs.

Sorry, but it's laughable to have such opinion after being on this board for so long...

Sorry if you think this board can come to a conclusive decision and all other opinions should be ignored or laughed at.

There are plenty of opinions shared by different posters here, but to believe that Garnett wasn't very impactful player, you need to ignore all the evidences we have.

dygaction · Post #19 » by **dygaction** » Fri May 27, 2022 6:39 pm

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:Sorry, but it's laughable to have such opinion after being on this board for so long...

Sorry if you think this board can come to a conclusive decision and all other opinions should be ignored or laughed at.

There are plenty of opinions shared by different posters here, but to believe that Garnett wasn't very impactful player, you need to ignore all the evidences we have.

I still have him ATG right at top 20 though, more due to his longevity, great regular seasons, and defensive presence. For KG, I like what I saw from him during the regular season, all effort and great passion; but I also know what I get in the playoffs - essentially the same with slightly worse overall production (per 100, TS%, BPM...). I like players who can elevate a tier in the playoffs.

70sFan · Post #20 » by **70sFan** » Fri May 27, 2022 6:51 pm

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Sorry if you think this board can come to a conclusive decision and all other opinions should be ignored or laughed at.

There are plenty of opinions shared by different posters here, but to believe that Garnett wasn't very impactful player, you need to ignore all the evidences we have.

I still have him ATG right at top 20 though, more due to his longevity, great regular seasons, and defensive presence. For KG, I like what I saw from him during the regular season, all effort and great passion; but I also know what I get in the playoffs - essentially the same with slightly worse overall production (per 100, TS%, BPM...). I like players who can elevate a tier in the playoffs.

But if players are worse in RS and elevate in PS... it doesn't mean they become better in absolute terms than Garnett. Also, do you have any evidences that KG didn't elevate his defense in the playoffs?