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RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 5:01 am
by LA Bird
It has been 3 years since the last peaks project so it is time for another one. We will be ranking single season peaks including both regular season and playoffs and each player will be represented on the list with only one season. The scope of this project will be every season from 1947 to 2022 in the NBA/ABA/BAA. For reference, here are the results of the peak project from previous years:

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Greatest Player Peaks of All-Time (2015)
1. Michael Jordan ('91---unanimous)
2. Shaquille O'Neal ('00---unanimous)
3. Lebron James ('13---non-unanimous ('09, '12))
4. Wilt Chamberlain ('67---non-unanimous ('64))
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ('77---non-unanimous ('71, '72))
6. Hakeem Olajuwon ('94---non-unanimous ('93))
7. Tim Duncan ('03---non-unanimous ('02))
8. Kevin Garnett ('04---unanimous)
9. Bill Russell ('65---non-unanimous ('62, '64))
10. Magic Johnson ('87---unanimous)
11. Larry Bird ('86---non-unanimous ('87, '88))
12. David Robinson ('95---non-unanimous ('94, '96))
13. Bill Walton ('77---unanimous)
14. Julius Erving ('76---unanimous)
15. Oscar Robertson ('64---non-unanimous ('63))
16. Dwyane Wade ('09---non-unanimous ('06, '10))
17. Stephen Curry ('15---unanimous)
18. Dirk Nowitzki ('11---non-unanimous ('06, '09))
19. Jerry West ('66---non-unanimous ('68, '69))
20. Kevin Durant ('14---unanimous)
21. Patrick Ewing ('90---unanimous)
22. Tracy McGrady ('03---unanimous)
23. Kobe Bryant ('08---non-unanimous ('06, '09))
24. Charles Barkley ('90---non-unanimous ('93))
25. Moses Malone ('83---unanimous)
26. Chris Paul ('08---non-unanimous ('15))
27. Karl Malone ('97---non-unanimous ('92/'95/'98))
28. Steve Nash ('07---non-unanimous ('05))
29. Anthony Davis ('15---unanimous)
30. Dwight Howard ('11---non-unanimous ('09))
31. Alonzo Mourning ('00---unanimous)
32. Walt Frazier ('72---non-unanimous ('70, '71))
33. James Harden ('15---unanimous)
34. Artis Gilmore ('75---unanimous)
35. Elgin Baylor ('61---unanimous)
36. Bob Pettit ('63---non-unanimous ('61))
37. Bob Lanier ('74---unanimous)
38. Kevin McHale ('87---non-unanimous ('86))
39. Willis Reed ('69---non-unanimous ('70))
40. Bob McAdoo ('75---unanimous)
Spoiler:
The purpose of this thread is to first gauge if there is sufficient interest for this project to go ahead. Posters who participated in the peaks projects before have been automatically included in the quote list at the end of this post but anyone not on the list is also welcome to sign up and join in the project. If we don't get 10~20 people, the project will be postponed to another year. Otherwise, my current plan is for the project to start a few days after the Finals and to end before the start of the 2022-23 season in mid October. The voting window will be 72 hours for the first 20 rounds and it will be reduced to 48 hours from round 21 onwards as the amount of discussion usually declines at that point.

In terms of the voting system, past peaks project have always had problems with some players potentially having multiple peaks. Ideally, there should be no advantage or disadvantage to players who had many peak season candidates compared to others with a clear unanimous peak. The best solution in my opinion is to vote for individual player seasons and choose the winner through head to head comparisons via the Condorcet method. To show how this works, you will write your 3 highest player peaks and at least one line of reasoning for each of them. But in addition, you can also list other peak season candidates from those three players. As an example, this is what a vote could potentially look like:

1. 1991 Jordan: Explanation
2. (1990 Jordan)
3. 2013 LeBron: Explanation
4. (2012 LeBron)
5. (1992 Jordan)
6. (2009 LeBron)

7. 1967 Wilt: Explanation
8. (1964 Wilt)

The reason for also including seasons that you don't consider to be peaks in your vote is so that players with multiple viable peak seasons can be evaluated more accurately when the votes are added up at the end of the round. If a player season is not listed in your vote, I would treat it as you ranking it behind every other season present in your vote. At the end of each round, every season is compared pairwise and the winner is the season that beats every other season head to head. For example, if these are the votes (in descending order of preference) in a round for players A, B, C and their seasons A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, C1:

A1, A2, A3
A1, B1, A2
A1, B1, A2
B1, A1, A2
B1, B2, A1
B2, A1, B1
B2, B1, A1
C1, B1, B2
C1, B2, B1

The winner is the season B1 because a majority of the voters preferred it over each of A1 (5>4), A2 (8>1), B2 (5>3), and C1 (6>2).
I chose the Condorcet method instead of the voting methods used in previous projects because I think it is the most accurate and least susceptible to manipulation. A simple plurality in seasons (2012 project) disadvantages players with multiple peaks while a simple plurality with combined peak seasons (2015 project) doesn't account for how differently individual seasons by the same player can be ranked. The Borda count method (2019 project) gives an artificial advantage to players with multiple peak level seasons and can easily be gamed to inflate the distant between your preferred candidate and their closest rival. The Condorcet method requires more work when adding up the votes but it should give the best results.

In the event of a tie at the end of the voting period, there will be an additional 24 hour runoff between the top seasons in contention. If the tie is between multiple seasons from the same player, the runoff will run concurrently with the next round because the winning player has already been determined. If there is still a tie at the end of the 24 hour runoff, my idea is to discard the last vote by timestamp until there is no tie. This might seem too basic and arbitrary of a tiebreak rule but
1. It keeps the project moving. Later rounds with already low participation often die when we wait indefinitely for tiebreak votes.
2. It guarantees a winner without adding too many complicated tiebreaking mechanisms (see top 100 project).
3. It incentivizes people to get their votes in as early as possible so their votes aren't the last one and discarded.
4. If the vote was really close, the runner up will likely win the next round anyway so I don't think a one spot difference is that big of a deal in the overall scheme of things.

That's everything I have for the rules. If there is anything people don't like or want to add, I am always open to new ideas.
In any case, I am looking forward to start round #1 sometime between June 16-22.

Note: If you find yourself in the list of names below and don't wish to receive further notifications about this project, simply withdraw and your name will be removed.

_Game7_ wrote:.

70sFan wrote:.

Amares wrote:.

Ambrose wrote:.

ardee wrote:.

BallerHogger wrote:.

Bel wrote:.

Blackmill wrote:.

cecilthesheep wrote:.

ceiling raiser wrote:.

Clyde Frazier wrote:.

Colbinii wrote:.

DatAsh wrote:.

Doctor MJ wrote:.

dontcalltimeout wrote:.

Dr Positivity wrote:.

Dr Spaceman wrote:.

drza wrote:.

E-Balla wrote:.

eminence wrote:.

freethedevil wrote:.

GoldenFrieza21 wrote:.

Gregoire wrote:.

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:.

HHera187 wrote:.

Homer38 wrote:.

Jaivl wrote:.

Joao Saraiva wrote:.

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Joey Wheeler wrote:.

JordansBulls wrote:.

LA Bird wrote:.

liamliam1234 wrote:.

Lou Fan wrote:.

Mavericksfan wrote:.

michievous wrote:.

Moonbeam wrote:.

Mutnt wrote:.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:.

Narigo wrote:.

No-more-rings wrote:.

Owly wrote:.

pandrade83 wrote:.

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PCProductions wrote:.

penbeast0 wrote:.

Point-Forward wrote:.

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theonlyclutch wrote:.

The-Power wrote:.

thizznation wrote:.

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trex_8063 wrote:.

Vladimir777 wrote:.

yoyoboy wrote:.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 5:26 am
by Dr Positivity
Ok

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 6:13 am
by Dutchball97
I joined a year after the last peaks project so I'm looking forward to give my take on the list. Count me in.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 7:27 am
by ardee
Yeah I'm in. Interested to see where Curry, Giannis and Jokic land.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 7:41 am
by 70sFan
I am in, will try to work out my updated peaks list within next few days.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 11:14 am
by penbeast0
Like the last peaks project, I will read with interest, comment occasionally, but probably not vote. I don't think about most players in terms of single season peaks except maybe Bill Walton or Connie Hawkins.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 11:19 am
by SideshowBob
Will follow but cannot participate in discussion or voting.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 11:27 am
by Max123
What kind of a commitment is required for one to join the project?

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 12:01 pm
by DQuinn1575
I'm in.
To be clear, I vote for 3 players. And in your example, I should place a vote for any LeBron or Jordan season I think is better than Wilt's 1967 season; if I feel Jordan's 1989 season was superior to WIlt's 1967 I should vote for that.

So should I really list all seasons of these 3 I think are better than the 4th guy? - say it's Jabbar 1977.
Should I list all seasons of MJ, LeBron, and WIlt I have down as better than 1977 Jabbar?


LA Bird wrote: As an example, this is what a vote could potentially look like:

1. 1991 Jordan: Explanation
2. (1990 Jordan)
3. 2013 LeBron: Explanation
4. (2012 LeBron)
5. (1992 Jordan)
6. (2009 LeBron)

7. 1967 Wilt: Explanation
8. (1964 Wilt)

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 1:16 pm
by Colbinii
Looks fun. I'm in.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 2:24 pm
by falcolombardi
looks fun, can i participate?

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:26 pm
by capfan33
I'd like to participate even though we'll see how hard it is in terms of time commitment.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:42 pm
by Clyde Frazier
Not sure if I'll have enough time this go around but I'll mull it over. Happy to see the project back tho!

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 5:40 pm
by The-Power
Unfortunately, I won't be able to commit.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 6:22 pm
by Gregoire
I'm in.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Mon Jun 6, 2022 8:05 pm
by LA Bird
Max123 wrote:What kind of a commitment is required for one to join the project?

There is no time commitment for this project. You are welcome to join in the discussion in any round without ever voting at all.

falcolombardi wrote:looks fun, can i participate?

Yes

DQuinn1575 wrote:To be clear, I vote for 3 players. And in your example, I should place a vote for any LeBron or Jordan season I think is better than Wilt's 1967 season; if I feel Jordan's 1989 season was superior to WIlt's 1967 I should vote for that.

So should I really list all seasons of these 3 I think are better than the 4th guy? - say it's Jabbar 1977.
Should I list all seasons of MJ, LeBron, and WIlt I have down as better than 1977 Jabbar?

You can list as many or as few extra seasons as you want. Obviously, the more you rank, the less likely it is for me to misinterpret your preferences when I am adding up the votes. But at the same time, I don't want voters to think that they have to rank like 15 seasons in every vote because that is a lot more work for both them and for me. If you are very confident one of your players has a unanimous peak (eg. 2000 Shaq), you can even just ignore all his other seasons in your vote. Essentially, the multi season approach is only there to cover your bases in case the season you pick as the peak for a player is not the same as everyone else.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2022 3:12 pm
by Doctor MJ
Okay, I'm in.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2022 4:11 pm
by DraymondGold
If a relatively new member is able to join, I'd love to participate! :)

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2022 8:53 pm
by Lou Fan
I'll pop in and out but probably won't be a constant contributor.

Re: RealGM Greatest Peaks Project (2022)

Posted: Wed Jun 8, 2022 2:36 am
by TheGOATRises007
I'll try and participate, but I can't promise anything.

I'll definitely keep an eye on the project.