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Dutchball97 wrote:Interesting how everyone so far picked a series where he lost first. Especially since game 6 was kind of meh by his standards. Could one of you guys explain what is so special about LeBron's performance against the Magic in 2009?

colts18 wrote:I rewatched Game 1 of the Cavs-Magic series to chart how LeBron played. My memory which is based on watching the game a decade ago was that LeBron was on fire offensively, but was not the same level of player as he was in Miami in terms of BB IQ. After rewatching the game, I was completely wrong. I was watching the best version of LeBron. 2009 LeBron was just as smart as the Heat or 2nd stint LeBron. He was making the right reads, the right rotations on nearly every play. I saw very few plays.

2009 LeBron is clearly the best version of LeBron to me now. His athleticism was so off the charts that he made 3-5 free easy dunks per game in the halfcourt and in transition based off his athletic advantage alone. Older LeBron was a better shooter because he needed to be one. Young LeBron was so overwhelming that defenses had to completely cater their game gameplan to him.

What impressed me the most was his defensive skills. He was a legitimate DPOY type of defender. His quickness allowed him to easily closeout and make his rotations. LeBron's role on defense was akin to a Free safety than a Cornerback. The Cavs strategy featured LeBron on a weak Offensive player(Alston) so that he could focus on his help defense. He would roam around as the primary help defender covering up all of the gaps in the Cavs defense. We see Older LeBron more like an Ed Reed type who played deep and was more cautious. Young LeBron otoh was more like Troy Polamalu. He was EVERYWHERE on the court. Mike Brown gave him the freedom to play his game on defense. He was playing the passing lanes, closing out, switching on help defense, guarding Dwight, etc. Based on my obervation of the game, I didn't see LeBron make a mistake on help defense.

Check out this sequence. LeBron throws down a monster dunk in transition, then blocks Dwight Howard on defense, then responds with a 3 pointer. The best sequence of plays I've ever seen from a player. He was routinely making plays like this in 2009.

Watch on YouTube

LeBron's Shot chart.



09 LeBron took a bunch of 20-22 feet jumpers off the dribble. That was his go to move when the defense cut off his driving lanes.

Defensive stats:

Spoiler:

4-13 FG
2-4 3P
3 Blocks
2 Steals
1 Offensive Foul Drawn
4 Deflections

Alston:
2-7 FG
1-3 3P
1 Block

Howard:
1-3 FG
2 Monster Blocks

Turkoglu:
1-3 FG
1-1 3P

Offense:
8 Assists
12 Potential Assists
2 Free Throw assists
1 Hockey Assist
9 fouls drawn

Notes:
-For the first half, LeBron was tasked with guarding Rafer Alston. The Cavs put him in a role akin to a safety. It was his job to roam around the paint to provide help defense which he was excellent at. In the 2nd half he was guarding PIetrus and Turkoglu. On the other end, Pietrus was guarding LeBron the most with a little of Turkoglu mixed in.

-The Magic were clearly scared of LeBron's defense. They rarely took him 1 on 1. Most of their shot attempts came off a screen or when LeBron was playing help defense.

-Anderson Varejao was a beast. His offball game was a perfect complement to LeBron. He got 3 layups alone from cutting to the basket when his man was sleeping.

-Why did the Cavs lose the series? The Magic was a bad matchup for the Cavs due to their size advantage. Howard was destroying Big Z and Varejao which forced the Cavs to double Howard. Ben Wallace had a broken leg so he wasn't effective vs Howard either. The Cavs roster was weak on the perimeter. West, Mo Williams, and LeBron each played 40+ MPG in the series because the Cavs had no depth in the perimeter. The Magic had a 6' 10 Lewis against a slow Varejao, 6' 10 Hedo against 6' 4" West, and 6' 5" Pietrus vs 6'1 Delonte West. Their backup option was the no defense 32 year old Wally Sczerbiak who had messed up knees and retired after the season. Next up was Sasha Pavlovic and the 6'2" Boobie Gibson The Cavs had no one between 6' 5" and 6" 10 who could guard on the perimeter outside of LeBron. Add that to the overwhelming mismatch with Dwight, that's a recipe of getting killed on defense.

The Cavs addressed that weakness the next season adding by adding 6' 8" Antawn Jamison, 6' 8" Jamario Moon, 6' 6" Anthony Parker, 6' 6" Leon Powe and added Shaq to go against Dwight. Of course the Cavs ended up facing the Celtics who presented different mismatches. I believe the 2010 Cavs beat the 2009 Magic and the 2009 Cavs would beat the 2010 Celtics.





-There's a myth out there that the Magic defense played LeBron 1 on 1, guarded his shooters tightly, and forced LeBron to beat them. That is not what happened at all. The Magic gameplan was clearly geared towards stopping LeBron. Dwight Howard said in the interview that the gameplan was to prevent LeBron from getting into the paint. Every time LeBron had the ball isolated, Dwight Howard would shift completely over to that side ignoring his

Pic of the Magic defense


LeBron being triple teamed




The highlights of the game:

Watch on YouTube

MisterHibachi wrote:2016 Warriors
2009 Magic
2013 Pacers
2017 Warriors
2018/2012 Celtics

Dutchball97 wrote:Interesting how everyone so far picked a series where he lost first. Especially since game 6 was kind of meh by his standards. Could one of you guys explain what is so special about LeBron's performance against the Magic in 2009?

falcolombardi wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:Interesting how everyone so far picked a series where he lost first. Especially since game 6 was kind of meh by his standards. Could one of you guys explain what is so special about LeBron's performance against the Magic in 2009?

he was pretty damn good

what is a reason to be low on it other than the loss?

falcolombardi wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:Interesting how everyone so far picked a series where he lost first. Especially since game 6 was kind of meh by his standards. Could one of you guys explain what is so special about LeBron's performance against the Magic in 2009?

he was pretty damn good

what is a reason to be low on it other than the loss?

Dutchball97 wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:Interesting how everyone so far picked a series where he lost first. Especially since game 6 was kind of meh by his standards. Could one of you guys explain what is so special about LeBron's performance against the Magic in 2009?

he was pretty damn good

what is a reason to be low on it other than the loss?

I'm not saying it wasn't an amazing series but I believe there are a couple of series he won where he played about as well or possibly even better than the Magic series. For example 2020 Heat, 2016 Warriors and the 2016, 2017 and 2018 series against the Raptors.

falcolombardi wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:
he was pretty damn good

what is a reason to be low on it other than the loss?

I'm not saying it wasn't an amazing series but I believe there are a couple of series he won where he played about as well or possibly even better than the Magic series. For example 2020 Heat, 2016 Warriors and the 2016, 2017 and 2018 series against the Raptors.

there is a lot going for that series (and season as a whole)

historic boxscore stats + good efficiency + against a league #1 defense + against league best rim protector (particularly relevant for a slashing perimeter player) + historic on/off numbers + historic defense metrics all season long + incredible defense "eye test" that series

while on the defensive half of the game lebron had insane metrics all season long

he was the most impressive defender (and by +/- too) in a -5.5 defense, for reference the 88 bulls for which jordan won dpoy were a -2.5 one, that is an insane level of defense, only a tier below the historical ones, anchored by a perineter player

"eye test" wise i watched game 1 a couple months ago and it was absurd at times, lebron would do thinghs that you literally feel should not be possible

there is a play where he becomes the only player in the paint in defense, orlando player desists from driving against a wing player alone and passes to the somehow open corner so lebron explodes and contests the 3 closely, defending the rim and corner almost simultaneously like that shouldnt be possible

then there is the blocks on howard, the locking down of whoever tried to score while guarded by him, etc

in a eye test sense his defense looked absurd too

everythingh about that season was unbeliable, down to winning 66 ganes without another all star level teammate

sp6r=underrated wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:
I'm not saying it wasn't an amazing series but I believe there are a couple of series he won where he played about as well or possibly even better than the Magic series. For example 2020 Heat, 2016 Warriors and the 2016, 2017 and 2018 series against the Raptors.

there is a lot going for that series (and season as a whole)

historic boxscore stats + good efficiency + against a league #1 defense + against league best rim protector (particularly relevant for a slashing perimeter player) + historic on/off numbers + historic defense metrics all season long + incredible defense "eye test" that series

while on the defensive half of the game lebron had insane metrics all season long

he was the most impressive defender (and by +/- too) in a -5.5 defense, for reference the 88 bulls for which jordan won dpoy were a -2.5 one, that is an insane level of defense, only a tier below the historical ones, anchored by a perineter player

"eye test" wise i watched game 1 a couple months ago and it was absurd at times, lebron would do thinghs that you literally feel should not be possible

there is a play where he becomes the only player in the paint in defense, orlando player desists from driving against a wing player alone and passes to the somehow open corner so lebron explodes and contests the 3 closely, defending the rim and corner almost simultaneously like that shouldnt be possible

then there is the blocks on howard, the locking down of whoever tried to score while guarded by him, etc

in a eye test sense his defense looked absurd too

everythingh about that season was unbeliable, down to winning 66 ganes without another all star level teammate

This sums it up well. If 2009 didn't happen, I'd never believe a player could do it. It was just a remarkable achievment.

Joao Saraiva wrote:Given the degree of difficulty I'll give the edge to the 2016 series. And I got 09 Bron as his peak but man...

He was the best guy from both teams in every category.

GSW had Barnes and it allowed James to play help D like someone referred previously in 09. And he didn't disappoint. He was blocking Steph right and left and took away his confidence.

He didn't start that series particularly well, but those games 5 and 6 were absolutely legendary given the opposition.



Then 09 vs Magic has been debunked. Yes G6 wasn't excelent... but G1 and G5 are two of the best games James ever played. And yes he was definitely remarkable on both ends of the floor.

Then I think Boston 18 is not given enough credit. His G1 was awful, but besides that game James delivered big time. Super efficient, super high scoring, a ton of assists and rebounds and block... guy was everywhere. Yes the Celtics were young and are not what they are today. But they were still a very good team, and considering the cast James had with him it was a colossal carry job to beat em in 7. His streak to the finals should've ended there.