RealGM

Inspired by the Oscar Vs Larry career discussion from a few days ago, i'm interested in how the board generally gauges the big O against someone else commonly considered t10 here that provides most of their value on offense as well.

Bird top seasons:

1986
1984
1987
1985
1988
1981
1982

Oscar best seasons:

1963
1964
1962
1965
1966
1967
1968
1961

My list:

1. 1986 Larry Bird - very close between peak Oscar and Bird, but I think Larry has a little more value on defensive end. Very close though, I might change my mind when I get more footage of prime Oscar.
2. 1984 Larry Bird - although I think Oscar peaked higher in RS than Bird in 1984, Larry's postseason run is extremely impressive and I decided to go with that one.
3. 1963 Oscar Robertson - only his 2nd best RS, but spectacular run in the playoffs. His ECF performance might be one of the finest offensive performances ever against one of the best defenses ever. Again, with more footage from that series I could move him up even above peak Bird.
4. 1987 Larry Bird - Bird no longer has defensive edge here and I'm not sure he was better, more consistent offensive player than Oscar.

5. 1964 Oscar Robertson - both 1964 Oscar and 1985 Bird underperformed in the playoffs after MVP regular seasons, but I think Oscar's one is a bit more circumstancial. He faced the best defensive team ever after all, while Bird struggled throughout the whole playoffs. I know, it's injury related but still.
6. 1985 Larry Bird - could be higher without the injury, but it is what it is.
7. 1962 Oscar Robertson - to be honest, I could see him right around 1987 Bird level. Anchored 2nd best offense ever up to that point (after 1952 Royals) as a sophomore. I gave Bird the benefit of doubt because of longer postseason run.
8. 1965 Oscar Robertson - still top tier season for Oscar, but I think he underperformed a little against the Sixers in the playoffs. Although Philly got Wilt during the season and their record underestimated their strength, I think Royals could put up a better fight.
9. 1988 Larry Bird - poor showing in the playoffs hurt his case and he started to become defensive liablility at this point.

10. 1966 Oscar Robertson - I view mid-1960s Oscar as clearly better offensive player than early 1980s Larry Bird and I don't view Bird's defense high enough to overcome that gap.
11. 1967 Oscar Robertson - same thing as with 1966, except slightly weaker season for Oscar.
12. 1981 Larry Bird - I go with him because of 1968 Oscar missed 17 games in RS and it costed Royals playoff appeariance.

HM: 1982 Larry, 1968 Oscar

It's very close and the lesser seasons (1980, 1983, 1990 vs 1969-71) actually gives Oscar the edge on my all-time ranking.

70sFan wrote:Bird top seasons:

1986
1984
1987
1985
1988
1981
1982

Oscar best seasons:

1963
1964
1962
1965
1966
1967
1968
1961

My list:

1. 1986 Larry Bird - very close between peak Oscar and Bird, but I think Larry has a little more value on defensive end. Very close though, I might change my mind when I get more footage of prime Oscar.
2. 1984 Larry Bird - although I think Oscar peaked higher in RS than Bird in 1984, Larry's postseason run is extremely impressive and I decided to go with that one.
3. 1963 Oscar Robertson - only his 2nd best RS, but spectacular run in the playoffs. His ECF performance might be one of the finest offensive performances ever against one of the best defenses ever. Again, with more footage from that series I could move him up even above peak Bird.
4. 1987 Larry Bird - Bird no longer has defensive edge here and I'm not sure he was better, more consistent offensive player than Oscar.

5. 1964 Oscar Robertson - both 1964 Oscar and 1985 Bird underperformed in the playoffs after MVP regular seasons, but I think Oscar's one is a bit more circumstancial. He faced the best defensive team ever after all, while Bird struggled throughout the whole playoffs. I know, it's injury related but still.
6. 1985 Larry Bird - could be higher without the injury, but it is what it is.
7. 1962 Oscar Robertson - to be honest, I could see him right around 1987 Bird level. Anchored 2nd best offense ever up to that point (after 1952 Royals) as a sophomore. I gave Bird the benefit of doubt because of longer postseason run.
8. 1965 Oscar Robertson - still top tier season for Oscar, but I think he underperformed a little against the Sixers in the playoffs. Although Philly got Wilt during the season and their record underestimated their strength, I think Royals could put up a better fight.
9. 1988 Larry Bird - poor showing in the playoffs hurt his case and he started to become defensive liablility at this point.

10. 1966 Oscar Robertson - I view mid-1960s Oscar as clearly better offensive player than early 1980s Larry Bird and I don't view Bird's defense high enough to overcome that gap.
11. 1967 Oscar Robertson - same thing as with 1966, except slightly weaker season for Oscar.
12. 1981 Larry Bird - I go with him because of 1968 Oscar missed 17 games in RS and it costed Royals playoff appeariance.

HM: 1982 Larry, 1968 Oscar

It's very close and the lesser seasons (1980, 1983, 1990 vs 1969-71) actually gives Oscar the edge on my all-time ranking.

My list would be very similar to this one. It’s really too bad about Bird’s injuries that lowered his motor and defense as 1987 and 1988 versions of him saw the best offensive version of Bird with a smoother pull up jumper and a quicker three point release. I would have loved to see a 1984 motor with 1988 skill.

But I’ve been gaining more and more appreciation for Oscar’s skill as well and his overall offensive ability. 9 straight seasons of basically 300+ TS+ is a testament to how ahead of his peers he was on offense.

70sFan wrote:Bird top seasons:

1986
1984
1987
1985
1988
1981
1982

Oscar best seasons:

1963
1964
1962
1965
1966
1967
1968
1961

My list:

1. 1986 Larry Bird - very close between peak Oscar and Bird, but I think Larry has a little more value on defensive end. Very close though, I might change my mind when I get more footage of prime Oscar.
2. 1984 Larry Bird - although I think Oscar peaked higher in RS than Bird in 1984, Larry's postseason run is extremely impressive and I decided to go with that one.
3. 1963 Oscar Robertson - only his 2nd best RS, but spectacular run in the playoffs. His ECF performance might be one of the finest offensive performances ever against one of the best defenses ever. Again, with more footage from that series I could move him up even above peak Bird.
4. 1987 Larry Bird - Bird no longer has defensive edge here and I'm not sure he was better, more consistent offensive player than Oscar.

5. 1964 Oscar Robertson - both 1964 Oscar and 1985 Bird underperformed in the playoffs after MVP regular seasons, but I think Oscar's one is a bit more circumstancial. He faced the best defensive team ever after all, while Bird struggled throughout the whole playoffs. I know, it's injury related but still.
6. 1985 Larry Bird - could be higher without the injury, but it is what it is.
7. 1962 Oscar Robertson - to be honest, I could see him right around 1987 Bird level. Anchored 2nd best offense ever up to that point (after 1952 Royals) as a sophomore. I gave Bird the benefit of doubt because of longer postseason run.
8. 1965 Oscar Robertson - still top tier season for Oscar, but I think he underperformed a little against the Sixers in the playoffs. Although Philly got Wilt during the season and their record underestimated their strength, I think Royals could put up a better fight.
9. 1988 Larry Bird - poor showing in the playoffs hurt his case and he started to become defensive liablility at this point.

10. 1966 Oscar Robertson - I view mid-1960s Oscar as clearly better offensive player than early 1980s Larry Bird and I don't view Bird's defense high enough to overcome that gap.
11. 1967 Oscar Robertson - same thing as with 1966, except slightly weaker season for Oscar.
12. 1981 Larry Bird - I go with him because of 1968 Oscar missed 17 games in RS and it costed Royals playoff appeariance.

HM: 1982 Larry, 1968 Oscar

It's very close and the lesser seasons (1980, 1983, 1990 vs 1969-71) actually gives Oscar the edge on my all-time ranking.

How valuable do you see Oscar's defense as year to year? If you don't mind me asking

Proxy wrote:How valuable do you see Oscar's defense as year to year? If you don't mind me asking

We have way too little information to make a very accurate prediction. I have never seen a prime Oscar game in which he'd look badly. He was a physical man defender who could guard multiple positions and a very strong rebounder. He wasn't very consistent without the ball, but nothing major either.

I have seen some reports saying that Oscar improved a lot defensively from his first seasons. That's possible, although in Olympic games he didn't look bad at all.