How many rings do you think Lebron would win if he replaced Magic on showtime.

[coastalmarker99]

I say that Lebron on those Showtime teams most likely wins rings in 1980 1981 1982 1984 1985 1987 1988 1989

For a total of 8 rings.

As he would be a huge upgrade defensively while providing basically the same impact offensively.

As Lebron would be an elite shooter in that era.


And he would feast against Boston.

As this was the defence they were playing against basically a modern-day wing in Jordan who isn't as great as an outside shooter as Lebron is.

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2009 or 2010 Lebron would have the time of his life facing those unathletic guys.

[magicman1978]

which LeBron seasons would overlap with those years? Because if he comes in as a rookie in 1980 he definitely doesn't get 8 rings. Wasn't until 09 that he began to have a more consistent jump shot.

[Kingdibs19]

10

[coastalmarker99]

I can't imagine how elite prime Lebron in the 1980's would be on defence with him being allowed to hand check.

As even at 35 he was still able to shut down guys like Murry.

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And you can make a case for him being the best defensive player for the Lakers in the bubble.

As he was terrific on that end

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Plus on offence, he would exploit the illegal defence rule.

[An Unbiased Fan]

They don't beat Boston or Philly, and doesn't have the shooting Lebron likes. Maybe 88 and 90. But then the Bad Boys would be brutal.

It's very hard to just replace stars in their roles, every team is different

[falcolombardi]

probably many

[Colbinii]

I always envy older players and their ability to handcheck. Imagine the most athletic wing player ever being able to use his 6'8", 240 pound frame and his arms/hands prevent player movement.

Illegal defense would force teams to play 2 on 2 on his side, which would simply be unstoppable similar to young Jordan--but LeBrons advantages over Jordan [Passing, Defense] would be more apparent.

[Colbinii]

They don't beat Boston or Philly, and doesn't have the shooting Lebron likes. Maybe 88 and 90. But then the Bad Boys would be brutal.

It's very hard to just replace stars in their roles, every team is different

LeBron and other stars need spacing today because of illegal defense. Back in the 1980s spacing isn't needed because the rules generated spacing by themselves.

[An Unbiased Fan]

They don't beat Boston or Philly, and doesn't have the shooting Lebron likes. Maybe 88 and 90. But then the Bad Boys would be brutal.

It's very hard to just replace stars in their roles, every team is different

LeBron and other stars need spacing today because of illegal defense. Back in the 1980s spacing isn't needed because the rules generated spacing by themselves.

Sure, but paint protection was greater back then, which would directly impact Lebron. A big reason MJ worked on his range so much was because the Celtics and Piston were throwing him to the ground when he attacked. Teams like Boston would throw frontlines of Bird, McHale, Parish at Lebron.


With Magic, you have a different style of offense that elevated the other Laker players, I'm not sure we get that from Lebron. He doesn't make them worse, but I don't see him getting as much from a past-prime Kareem, and Worthy, Scott, as Magic did.

[Jaivl]

Lol dude shows a guy LeBron has 30 pounds on dropping a guy LeBron has 60 pounds on with a flagrant 2 as if that means something. The hell is this

[Colbinii]

They don't beat Boston or Philly, and doesn't have the shooting Lebron likes. Maybe 88 and 90. But then the Bad Boys would be brutal.

It's very hard to just replace stars in their roles, every team is different

LeBron and other stars need spacing today because of illegal defense. Back in the 1980s spacing isn't needed because the rules generated spacing by themselves.

Sure, but paint protection was greater back then, which would directly impact Lebron. A big reason MJ worked on his range so much was because the Celtics and Piston were throwing him to the ground when he attacked. Teams like Boston would throw frontlines of Bird, McHale, Parish at Lebron.


With Magic, you have a different style of offense that elevated the other Laker players, I'm not sure we get that from Lebron. He doesn't make them worse, but I don't see him getting as much from a past-prime Kareem, and Worthy, Scott, as Magic did.

I dont see any reason why a pick and roll with Kareem/LeBron on one side of the court wouldn't dominate?

Jordan had pretty weak casts in the mid/late-1980s. LeBron is playing on the Lakers with plenty of spacing, secondary playmakers and an all-time great big at the end of his prime.

Mo Williams excelled great next to LeBron in Cleveland, why couldn't Scott? LeBron was a much better defender than Magic, now Cooper/Kareem have LeBron?

What exactly is your gif showing here? You do realize a similar play happened this year, right [Grayson Allen/Alex Caruso].

[An Unbiased Fan]

Lol dude shows a guy LeBron has 30 pounds on dropping a guy LeBron has 60 pounds on with a flagrant 2 as if that means something. The hell is this

The point is how physical defense back then was in the paint. Anyone who watched young MJ knows this.

That doesn't mean Lebron wouldn't still be great, but his skillset on Showtime doesn't do the same things LA needed.

[An Unbiased Fan]

LeBron and other stars need spacing today because of illegal defense. Back in the 1980s spacing isn't needed because the rules generated spacing by themselves.

Sure, but paint protection was greater back then, which would directly impact Lebron. A big reason MJ worked on his range so much was because the Celtics and Piston were throwing him to the ground when he attacked. Teams like Boston would throw frontlines of Bird, McHale, Parish at Lebron.


With Magic, you have a different style of offense that elevated the other Laker players, I'm not sure we get that from Lebron. He doesn't make them worse, but I don't see him getting as much from a past-prime Kareem, and Worthy, Scott, as Magic did.

I dont see any reason why a pick and roll with Kareem/LeBron on one side of the court wouldn't dominate?

Jordan had pretty weak casts in the mid/late-1980s. LeBron is playing on the Lakers with plenty of spacing, secondary playmakers and an all-time great big at the end of his prime.

Mo Williams excelled great next to LeBron in Cleveland, why couldn't Scott? LeBron was a much better defender than Magic, now Cooper/Kareem have LeBron?

What exactly is your gif showing here? You do realize a similar play happened this year, right [Grayson Allen/Alex Caruso].

I'm showing the main team Lebron would be facing in the Finals. I'm showing the physical nature of those 80's series.

Look at Showtime's roster, does that look like a great fit for Lebron? Magic is arguably the GOAT offensive player, and his style of play raised the level of those around him. Kareem was a half-court post scorer, who needed to be fed, and Magic orchestrated largely from the perimeter unless he was posting up to allow Kareem to operate. The Lakers would still be a good team but I don't think Kareem's window is as long, nor do they match up with Boston as well.

[Colbinii]

Sure, but paint protection was greater back then, which would directly impact Lebron. A big reason MJ worked on his range so much was because the Celtics and Piston were throwing him to the ground when he attacked. Teams like Boston would throw frontlines of Bird, McHale, Parish at Lebron.


With Magic, you have a different style of offense that elevated the other Laker players, I'm not sure we get that from Lebron. He doesn't make them worse, but I don't see him getting as much from a past-prime Kareem, and Worthy, Scott, as Magic did.

I dont see any reason why a pick and roll with Kareem/LeBron on one side of the court wouldn't dominate?

Jordan had pretty weak casts in the mid/late-1980s. LeBron is playing on the Lakers with plenty of spacing, secondary playmakers and an all-time great big at the end of his prime.

Mo Williams excelled great next to LeBron in Cleveland, why couldn't Scott? LeBron was a much better defender than Magic, now Cooper/Kareem have LeBron?

What exactly is your gif showing here? You do realize a similar play happened this year, right [Grayson Allen/Alex Caruso].

I'm showing the main team Lebron would be facing in the Finals. I'm showing the physical nature of those 80's series.

LeBron is one of the most physically dominant players in NBA History. I think he would excel in an era you describe as physical, even though when I have watched the Era it wasn't significantly more physical than the 2000s or 2010s.

Look at Showtime's roster, does that look like a great fit for Lebron? Magic is arguably the GOAT offensive player, and his style of play raised the level of those around him. Kareem was a half-court post scorer, who needed to be fed, and Magic orchestrated largely from the perimeter unless he was posting up to allow Kareem to operate. The Lakers would still be a good team but I don't think Kareem's window is as long, nor do they match up with Boston as well.

LeBron has won with tons of different rosters and players. His IQ is off the charts, his passing and playmaking and scoring has always led to ridiculously resilient post-seasoj offenses. I see no reason LeBron couldn't be a GOAT player in the 1980s just as he was in the 2000s and 2010s.

Good talk, looking forward to more open-mindedness in the peaks discussion!

[capfan33]

A lot, Leborn is a massive defensive upgrade and was a better shooter than early Magic depending on what year you put him in. However, it depends a lot on that, what version of Lebron you plug into what year. If you plug in 2009 Lebron into 1980 its over lol, if you plug in rookie Lebron it's more interesting.

Look at Showtime's roster, does that look like a great fit for Lebron? Magic is arguably the GOAT offensive player, and his style of play raised the level of those around him. Kareem was a half-court post scorer, who needed to be fed, and Magic orchestrated largely from the perimeter unless he was posting up to allow Kareem to operate. The Lakers would still be a good team but I don't think Kareem's window is as long, nor do they match up with Boston as well.

Lebron's had success with like 5 very different rosters, I think he could make it work on 80s Lakers lol. Moreover, Magic wasn't even that good early on, he wasn't even the best PG on his own team in 1980. Magic didn't help Kareem that much early on because he sucked at shooting and anyone can feed Kareem lol, it's not that challenging.

Magic really came into his own around 85-86 and then the offensive comparison between the 2 becomes interesting, but until that point any prime version of Lebron would have made the Laker's a better team full stop.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I dont see any reason why a pick and roll with Kareem/LeBron on one side of the court wouldn't dominate?

Jordan had pretty weak casts in the mid/late-1980s. LeBron is playing on the Lakers with plenty of spacing, secondary playmakers and an all-time great big at the end of his prime.

Mo Williams excelled great next to LeBron in Cleveland, why couldn't Scott? LeBron was a much better defender than Magic, now Cooper/Kareem have LeBron?

What exactly is your gif showing here? You do realize a similar play happened this year, right [Grayson Allen/Alex Caruso].

I'm showing the main team Lebron would be facing in the Finals. I'm showing the physical nature of those 80's series.

LeBron is one of the most physically dominant players in NBA History. I think he would excel in an era you describe as physical, even though when I have watched the Era it wasn't significantly more physical than the 2000s or 2010s.

He would definitely still excel. I'm just thinking of the frontlines in the Finals LA faced, and the physical play refs allowed in the playoffs back then. Showtime was a different open spread the ball styled offence with Magic, which is why they were so effective.

LeBron has won with tons of different rosters and players. His IQ is off the charts, his passing and playmaking and scoring has always led to ridiculously resilient post-seasoj offenses. I see no reason LeBron couldn't be a GOAT player in the 1980s just as he was in the 2000s and 2010s.

Good talk, looking forward to more open-mindedness in the peaks discussion!

All of this is true, but remember you're replacing Magic who's IQ was off the charts and the GOAT playmaker. I just think Magic is a better fit for that roster. Lebron replacing Bird works better imo. Good discussion

[70sFan]

Assuming rookie James in place of rookie Magic:

1980 - they might win the ring anyway, Kareem was that good. It's a massive downgrade from Magic though.
1981 - this one is a huge upgrade over coming from injury Magic, I am not sure if they would have won the title though, Celtics were very good.
1982 - a title, not sure if 2006 James was actually better than 1982 Magic and he's a worse fit but I don't think the difference is enough
1983 - no ring and I don't think James fits as well as Magic
1984 - they actually could win this, 2008 James made a huge leap as a defender and Magic was iffy in the finals. Probably 50/50 on that one
1985 - easy title
1986 - 2010 James + Lakers vs this Celtics team... I don't know. Would they beat the Rockets though? Magic played very well in that series and James wouldn't be able to switch onto Hakeem. I'd say no here.
1987 - easy title, James had a down year but Lakers faced weak competition and I don't think Celtics would do James the same Mavs did
1988 - probably a title, 2012 James would fare very well against physical Pistons defense
1989 - not sure, I can see Lakers winning but it's 50/50
1990 - no ring, I don't think James would have done much better than Magic against the Suns
1991 - no ring, not sure if Lakers woulr have gone to the finals. Blazers were very good and James wasn't at his best in the playoffs.

[falcolombardi]

Assuming rookie James in place of rookie Magic:

1980 - they might win the ring anyway, Kareem was that good. It's a massive downgrade from Magic though.
1981 - this one is a huge upgrade over coming from injury Magic, I am not sure if they would have won the title though, Celtics were very good.
1982 - a title, not sure if 2006 James was actually better than 1982 Magic and he's a worse fit but I don't think the difference is enough
1983 - no ring and I don't think James fits as well as Magic
1984 - they actually could win this, 2008 James made a huge leap as a defender and Magic was iffy in the finals. Probably 50/50 on that one
1985 - easy title
1986 - 2010 James + Lakers vs this Celtics team... I don't know. Would they beat the Rockets though? Magic played very well in that series and James wouldn't be able to switch onto Hakeem. I'd say no here.
1987 - easy title, James had a down year but Lakers faced weak competition and I don't think Celtics would do James the same Mavs did
1988 - probably a title, 2012 James would fare very well against physical Pistons defense
1989 - not sure, I can see Lakers winning but it's 50/50
1990 - no ring, I don't think James would have done much better than Magic against the Suns
1991 - no ring, not sure if Lakers woulr have gone to the finals. Blazers were very good and James wasn't at his best in the playoffs.

wonder what the rebuild would look like

2016 lebron + divac and ideally a revamped team with younger role players who can shoot or defend vs the 92 bulls would be a fascinating matchup

2017 lebron vs the 93 bulls, uff

2018 lebron vs hakeem rockets and maybe 94 knicks

2019 if lebron is healthy come playoffs time and can repeat 90% of his 2018 performance vs 95 teams

2020 lebron and co vs sonics or 96 bulls...i dont see this with only divac

2021 lebron with shaq? uff, this could actually beay the 97 bulls

2022 lebron with shaq, sophomore kobe, eddie jones and nick van exel? monster team right there, would favor them vs jazz and bulls

2023 lebron? and shaq in 99? is not impossible they win if lebron repeats his 2022 level with more defensive effort

[scrabbarista]

Lol dude shows a guy LeBron has 30 pounds on dropping a guy LeBron has 60 pounds on with a flagrant 2 as if that means something. The hell is this

My friend, flagrant fouls didn't even exist until 90-91. That gif shows a common, two-shot foul. The Lakers didn't even get to keep the ball on that play, and certainly no one was ejected or fined.

[scrabbarista]

LeBron and other stars need spacing today because of illegal defense. Back in the 1980s spacing isn't needed because the rules generated spacing by themselves.

Sure, but paint protection was greater back then, which would directly impact Lebron. A big reason MJ worked on his range so much was because the Celtics and Piston were throwing him to the ground when he attacked. Teams like Boston would throw frontlines of Bird, McHale, Parish at Lebron.


With Magic, you have a different style of offense that elevated the other Laker players, I'm not sure we get that from Lebron. He doesn't make them worse, but I don't see him getting as much from a past-prime Kareem, and Worthy, Scott, as Magic did.

What exactly is your gif showing here? You do realize a similar play happened this year, right [Grayson Allen/Alex Caruso].

It's worth noting Allen was ejected and missed a subsequent game for his flagrant two, whereas McHale's clothesline was ruled a common foul, with no fines or ejections following. Flagrants didn't even exist until the 90's.